If Canelo is banned, I really hope that GGG can arrange something with Saunders. Would love to see him becoming undisputed champion.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
- Thread starter CLK_FPC
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Wilder's unconventional, lets face it pathetic skill set can make him a danger with one shot at any time because even he doesn't know when and how he's going to throw and from what angle. I liken him to Ricardo Mayorga. Awful technique but he threw a few top class boxers off with it like Vernon Forrest and Shane Mosley but for example Cory Spinks just played into his own strengths and outpointed him and Trinidad and De La Hoya weren't phased by him and obviously so technically superior they just took his advantage away and pummeled him.
Wilder has some of the worst footwork I've EVER seen on a world champion, an incredibly low Boxing IQ in addition to a laughably bad technique but in the Heavyweight division in this day and age one shot is all it takes. I'll add this though he does possess good speed and I think he can actually jab to a decent level but if he tries to use those parts of his game against anyone in the top 5 he'll fall far behind and probably lose. His only hope is to go for broke either from the start or once the opponent is going in for the skill on him.
I am far from sure that if Wilder connects with Joshua it is over. Joshua showed that he can come back when he got floored from Klitschko (who is quite close to Wilder in power), and Ortiz showed that it is possible to come back after getting knocked down.
On the other hand, can Wilder resist a big punch from Joshua?
On the other hand, can Wilder resist a big punch from Joshua?
I actually think that the punch Klitschko knocked Joshua down with was a bit feeble and not full blooded. If Wilder connects with a full blooded punch, it is over imo. He won't let Joshua catch his breath like Klitschko did even if he gets up.
Alvarez vs GGG officially off.
I’ll try comment more on AJ tomorrow after reading through...still rough from Saturday!!
I’ll try comment more on AJ tomorrow after reading through...still rough from Saturday!!
Annoying, but glad they cancelled it. Boxing needs some credibility.
Wait, what happened here ?
Edit. Nevermind, just read up on it.
Not sure why Clen is considered a steroid. Its a bronchodilator that is closer to ephedra than an anabolic.
Edit. Nevermind, just read up on it.
Not sure why Clen is considered a steroid. Its a bronchodilator that is closer to ephedra than an anabolic.
Still a performance enhancer though isn't it?
Yes definitely. It helps reduce body fat and improves cardio. I'm guessing Canelo used it for the latter.
He would have used it for both surely? Making weight is must for boxers.
He’s cheated and deserves the punishment. That draw should be overturned to a win for GGG.
Nothing to do with the failed drugs test, its just still a horrendous decision.
Nothing to do with the failed drugs test, its just still a horrendous decision.
Not sure if serious. Was this drugs test for the period before the first fight ?
No I think it was done about a month ago?
Maybe Canelo can claim the drug test was administered by Adelaide Byrd.
Ahh yeah...just saw that.Canelo is still my guy, he just got sloppy with his cycle unlike most other boxers at the top
Indeed. He's not really at fault here since everyone does it.
Massive shame about the bout. Canelo should be punished.
I'd hate to get hit by a punch that isn't feeble.
You seen the punch, it wasn't a full blooded shot was it?
Is there a massive fascination with them all? There is with Joshua and as a result Wilder gets a knock on effect from that. I don't see many people buzzing off Browne vs. Whyte for example. Joshua is one of the biggest names in boxing and usually puts on entertaining fights, there's a load of hype around him and rightfully so. I'd say the fascination is more Joshua than anyone else.
I think the potential problem with the Wilder fight for Hearn is it could really be the end game. Where do they go after that? It's a poor division, a Whyte rematch would sell well due to the trash talk again but other than that I struggle to see what happens. I don't think it's fair to accuse the boxers of ducking each other, I think they'd both fight tomorrow. I think the promoters (Hearn in particular) are trying to milk it a bit yet. I reckon AJ may have another stadium fight this year. Probably at the Millenium again (hopefully not though cos it cost a fortune to get there/stay etc in comparison to Wembley) and then go to America to fight Wilder. I don't think either should be to worried about the likes of Whyte if they had to fight him, both dismantle him pretty easily. He's improved slightly I'll give him that but he's not their level.
I'd give AJ the edge but it would be a hard one to call. It's a really close fight. Wilder is poor technically but he does have the power to KO AJ, he also has a good chin and stamina and it wouldn't surprise me if he walked AJ down in later rounds. AJ has far better technique and obviously has power to. I think they'd both be pretty cautious and it would be a tense fight knowing at any second one of them would be KOed. I really hope it happens within the next 12months but I'm doubtful.
True, but Wlad was a big hitter when he landed. I agree with your post it wasn't a full blooded Wilder style punch but I bet it was harder than pretty much any other heavyweight.
Heavyweight boxing will always draw an audience, it’s the tension knowing one punch at any moment could end it.
Don't worry I'm sure Eddie will find one if it suits him and vice versa with Wilder's team.
There are Eddie Hearn says they're regular up to a build to a fight. There is a video couple of pages back.
Canelo looked absolutely ripped in last fight too.
Saying and doing is one thing. I think Wilder is still building his brand off of Joshua's name and Hearn knows that and is milking some fights in the interim. The fight will happen and both sides now this and likely have a timescale on when. This is all just to add interest and make it bigger and bigger.
Just read somewhere that Vitaly Klitschko was never knocked down during his entire career. If true that's pretty astonishing.
From Wiki: His two losses came via a shoulder injury and a deep cut above his eye, both of which were recorded as stoppages rather than outright knockouts; in both fights he was leading on the judges' scorecards.
Remarkable
He got a lot of stick for retiring on his stool with a shoulder injury, called a bottler, quitter etc but he got his respect back in the Lewis fight. He was desperate to continue but his cuts were bad and needed 60 stitches. The fight was a proper tear up and Vitali was ahead when it was stopped, Lewis was getting stronger as the fight went on, however. A stoppage on cuts caused by punches is a stoppage in boxing nonetheless.
What a ridiculously underwhelming fight. O'Sullivan is a terrible fighter he really is. Such an anti climax, I'd rather they just cancelled the whole thing and went with BJS a bit later.
Pele Reid knocked him cold in a kick boxing match. Vitali denied this for many years until someone uploaded the footage to youtube.
Pele Reid knocked him cold in a kick boxing match. Vitali denied this for many years until someone uploaded the footage to youtube.
just watched that, very good call. Wouldn't call it knocked cold, his head was up the whole time he was down but he was defo finished, his legs were gone
Pele Reid actually fought as a pro boxer and achieved some domestic success, until Julius Francis pretty much ended him.
I got back and finally sat down to watch the fight for myself.
First thing I'll say is that Joshua needs to keep himself around that weight and not go back up to what he was - he looked much more able to carry himself, and even though he still slowed quite a bit - which is where the middle rounds went - he didn't reduce to practically zero output. He's still clearly susceptible to any good fighter who can push the pace for a concerted period of time and make him work more than he want to, though, which, before we consider other things, Fury would [have] had him doing.
He took the centre of the ring and worked concertedly behind the jab, which was nice to see, but his work is so... stiff.. this is something that always will leave openings for those good or bold enough to exploit.
I don't think the fight was boring, and I should know better than to go by second-hand reports, as you're then trusting the judgement of someone else to assess nuance (especially), it was a considered and strategical fight and better to see than a slugfest with ill-considered bombs being thrown all night.
The head movement wasn't good, but Joshua use of the gloves and parrying was better - at least if he can't move his head, keeping his hands up and adopting glove absorption is better than nothing at all, problem is, using the gloves in that way is literally custom-made for looped, circular shots, and with the torque and end-point of Wilder's punchers being huge and further around than a proper puncher's, that same hold the hands up and parry is ripe for Wilder to land hits behind the unsighted eye/glove and to the back side of the head.
This was my point about the jab being essential to stop Wilder from loading up, as I don't think once he does, Joshua has the defense to stop the shots from landing and ringing his ear/head - he can't move out the way, so he'll be trying to parry, which is a risky business with someone whose punches are much faster at end point than at the start - very easy to misjudge the swing and get clobbered, either by his own parried hand into his ear/head, or, as stated completely behind the unsighted eye and to the back of the head where the glove is not.
I still see nothing that suggests he can keep firing that jab for an extended period of time. If Wilder can make AJ work by simply stepping in and out (big ask for Wilder I know), thus forcing him to keep using the jab as a defensive tool, AJ will, 100% stop doing it everytime via tiredness in the middle rounds, imo. This is the best his tank can get to, unless he goes even lighter, and I don't think that's good for the frame he has.
For the bolded: I think there's two different types of conventional; the fighter who throws with consideration from awkward, but considered angles with a strategy and a game plan, ala Hamed or Eubank Sr., and then the other type who is wild, ill-considered and doing everything on so much instinct even they don't know what they'll do next. Wilder fights like a child, but at the same time, it's a child with hammers in both hands... all those swings then become dangerous, even if they are funny looking and completely unorthodox. What this also means for AJ is he can not get a single fighter in to recreate that style and prep for it - all he can do is watch videos and have a list of do's and do not's to try and negate the befuddling nonsense he may face. For someone as stiff, rigid and conventional in style as AJ is, this is a huge problem, imo as orthodox fighting against set styles is much better for his camp and the way he fights - AJ is not going to freestyle or come up with counter measures on the hop, imo - I actually think the first signs of his gameplan not working will see him open up and go straight to war, as that's his failsafe. I don't fancy him in a melee fight against a harder, more unpredictable puncher, personally.
Bolded the last part because I wanted to point, as I have done, that with the parry style, AJ won't see some of the shots and angulation coming, and those shots are the ones that often but fighters to sleep.
I don't have Wilder as overwhelming favourite despite the above, but I do think this is a contest that easily goes either way as I still see nothing that prevents Wilder getting in for the entirety of the fight (specfically related to Joshua invariably tiring in the middle rounds - he will) and that's where this becomes a 50-50, not the one-sided fight some swear it will be.
Above posts relates to this too. You've pretty much contradicted yourself in the last paragraph, no? A puncher's chance is practically saying it's a non-contest. I just can't buy into that.
And this is where his tools come to the fore and make him a serious threat, for all his numerous flaws and failings as a boxer. He mightn't be a brightspark, but even he knows how to make opponents work and he knows they fear his power, which makes them throw just to ward him off. There's definitely an inlet there in just making Joshua [over]work and then opening up the fight. I think even Wilder is capable of executing that gameplan... unless the pressure and atmosphere in front of 80,000 plus gets to him, in which case all the talk will be redundant.
He did the right thing by stopping the fight. He was 1 point ahead in judges scorecards, but the momentum had totally changed and Lewis started dominating him, in addition to Vitali having struggle to see. If the fight had continued, he would have either get knocked out or Lewis in the end would have win on points, with Vitali probably having permanent eye damage.
There used to be talk of him fighting Vitali IIRC but he never quite did well enough to get seriously in the conversation.
I think Wilder has a pretty good jab too but I think Joshua being a more intelligent and steady boxer he'd likely win a jabbing match which is what it would be in the beginning. He boxed a disciplined first fight against Stiverne using movement and basically just that punch but Stiverne is bang average and slow. Wilder's only real chance of winning the fight is hoping Joshua gets overly aggressive and then rolling the dice and landing a bomb that Joshua can't recover from. I think Joshua knows this and has improved his defense (in addition to the lower weight having a better affect on him) and will likely box a measured fight and pick Wilder apart with patience.
It will be a nervous fight until it's over because of the power and vulnerabilities of both guys but I feel Joshua wins a one-sided contest by the middle rounds.