Crazy talk! Guaranteed night night there.
The MMA thread
- Thread starter Fortitude
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You think Tony will beat Khabib on the ground ? I'd be surprised if that happens since Khabib gets people down and starts pounding on them. Not much you can do at that point.
No I meant just walking into Ferguson to get a clinch! He'll be asleep if he tries that Terminator schtick!
Ferguson's not got Conor single shot power but he's got plenty of flurries that'll seriously cut stamina and clarity short. And the movement to do it again and again.
On the deck I think it's Khabib's but that's the challenge isn't it? Taking it to the ground.
Yeah but you have to remember that most people who fight Khabib go in with a similar game plan until they quickly realize they have to defend against being taken down, which takes them out of their original plan and into survival mode. I see nothing in Ferguson's game that suggests he would be exempt from meeting a similar fate. Khabib, much like Conor, simply walks his opponents down by claiming the center of the Octagon and unlike Conor, once Khabib gets in close, its very rare that you aren't going down. And once you're down, its over since he will at a minimum start pounding away at your face to where you won't be able to restore your original strategy and simply fight to survive to the bell.
I agree with most of that but Tony is also great at finding submissions, so I don't think taking him down will guarantee a win.
Tony also has far higher cardio from what I've seen, so that has to go into the equation also.
Most definitely, but I don't think Tony is going to submit Khabib with his own back to the canvas. He would have to somehow squirm out of getting his face hit and turn the tables on Khabib, which given the latter's world class wrestling is going to be very difficult.
Ferguson is a brilliant mind with exceptional stamina. He's also really fluid with his lateral and non liner movement; there's potential for him to make Khabib look like a plodder if he keeps him at the length of his jab and feet. I think you're doing Ferguson a disservice there also in comparing him to fighters Khabib's faced so far. This is a serious jump up in class on every level for Khabib, but especially in terms of ring smarts, generalship and energy management. I'll bang the drum that Tony can keep him out all night if he wants to, even if Khabib is walking him down, because it's just a slip, lateral step out and reset for the situation to be exactly what it was beforehand and the whole dance to be repeated.
I do honestly think Tony's going to engage... just to prove a point, and that's where I couldn't call it at all as it's a step up for both of them in the clinch, but common sense then favours Khabib as he's been grappling since he could walk.
I respect Tony and think he's an elite level fighter with loads of weapons, but let's face it. He was taken down and controlled by Kevin Lee in his last fight. If that happens with Khabib then Khabib will win the fight imo, and there will be no chance for Tony to come back and eventually submit him like he did with Lee.
There will be no next round if the below sequence from 5:40 to 8:00 is allowed to happen against Khabib.
Can't wait for this one! Finally!
Would like to see Tony taking it but can't see past Khabib smashing him up on the ground for most of the fight. Should be a good watch all the same.
Would like to see Tony taking it but can't see past Khabib smashing him up on the ground for most of the fight. Should be a good watch all the same.
The great thing about this fight is you can argue the winner either way and still make a compelling arguement. It's so close.
Haven't been this excited by a fight in ages.
Haven't been this excited by a fight in ages.
Ferguson was rusty going into that fight; I wouldn't call that typical Ferguson, but irrespective of that, Lee has tools in the standup that enables him to shoot like that where Khabib does not, then there's the speed differential between Lee and Khabib, too.
What I'm saying is: Khabib has no means to set that up and he doesn't have the standup to disrupt or feint his way in. The 'if' you present could have Khabib all busted up by the third attempt. Just very risky to try with Ferguson, imo.
Ferguson will be sharp, mobile and a lot more elusive in this fight than he was in that Lee one, which makes it a difficult bout to glean much from in relation to Khabib because none of it will apply (be transferable), imo.
GSP was also a bit rusty against Bisping, as was Lesnar against Hunt.
The main point here is that Tony better not get taken down as Lee did to him otherwise he could be in for a long night.
hehe, on to fight night!
UFC Liverpool
Ferguson/Khabib taking a lot of the spotlight but man I can't wait for Rose/Joanna 2. So many questions like the Ferguson/Khabib fight, so damn pumped for these two title fights.
UFC Liverpool
I was at the O2 Atena for the ufc fight night on Saturday. It was utter shite. Going from that to these next UFC is such an extreme contrast my head will
Explode
Oezdemir vs Shogun Rua to fight in Chile.
Oezdemir gonna put him to sleep probably in the first, but if somehow SHogun wins, a title shot would be around the corner for him. Crazy.
Can't agree with Edgar coming back to fight so soon after that vicious KO though.
Oezdemir gonna put him to sleep probably in the first, but if somehow SHogun wins, a title shot would be around the corner for him. Crazy.
Can't agree with Edgar coming back to fight so soon after that vicious KO though.
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It'll have been like a month and a half won't it? Surely you're not allowed to fight that soon after a KO?
There's reports floating about that Dos Anjos vs Covington is in the works for UFC 224 in May.
http://mmajunkie.com/2018/03/colby-...lterweight-title-tyron-woodley-ufc-224-brazil
It's in Rio, so it'll be a rough reception for Covington if it's true
. I hope RDA stomps his guts out if it happens.
http://mmajunkie.com/2018/03/colby-...lterweight-title-tyron-woodley-ufc-224-brazil
It's in Rio, so it'll be a rough reception for Covington if it's true
. I hope RDA stomps his guts out if it happens.Me too.
That's a bit early for Till. At least in boxing he would be built up a bit before being thrown to the wolves.
It seems like a money fight that never was.
It seems like a money fight that never was.
It seems all the top WW are getting fights...
Ponzinibio is the only one still looking for a dance partner for Chile. I'm praying it's Kamaru Usman.
edit. feck it seems Usman was offered the fight, but Ponzinibio is looking to fight Magny.
Ponzinibio is the only one still looking for a dance partner for Chile. I'm praying it's Kamaru Usman.
edit. feck it seems Usman was offered the fight, but Ponzinibio is looking to fight Magny.
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It is no secret the UFC is fast tracking Till to a potential title shot.
The Till vs Thompson makes sense because those are two guys the UFC would love to have as champion, so no matter the result, its kinda a win win. (the winner probably gets the next title shot after the Colby/RDA winner)
If they fight guys like Usman or Ponzinibio, good chances they loose the fight and get down the pecking order.
If he does though then the hype will explode I reckon. Liverpool as a city is hugely passionate about “their own” etc and will get behind him on the night. I reckon it’ll be a great atmosphere. It might be a bit to soon for him but if he did win he’s cutting the queue massively and the UFC has another star on their hands.
As for RDA vs colby I think RDA wins it and ends this stuff with Colby which is hugely boring. It’s not even playing a bad guy in a way where want to watch him, just think the guy is a dick really.
If Woodley still has the belt and Thompson is somehow in line for a title shot I really can’t see them making that fight again. He’s not fighting for a title whilst it’s in Woodley’s possession
Karate is a perfect stylistic match-up for Muay Thai (classic) and if it goes to the floor, Wonderboy doesn't stand a chance.
This is a huge risk for Wonderboy - he has everything to lose here.
It's a massive come-up for Till, and he has all the tools to circumvent Wonderboy's strengths. That 2-point style will not work against circular attacks. Wonderboy better bring something else to the table.
I feel for Wonderboy, too, as it's clear Dana does not want him fighting Woodley again. Till should be nowhere near a shot at Wonderboy until he has at least a couple more wins under his belt. Everything about this is geared to make a star out of Till and remove Wonderboy from the title equation once and for all. The usual sham from Dana, as to be expected and precisely why the UFC is still a fledgling, almost farcical sport in how fights are made by one man instead of an actual ranking system of any kind.
This is a huge risk for Wonderboy - he has everything to lose here.
It's a massive come-up for Till, and he has all the tools to circumvent Wonderboy's strengths. That 2-point style will not work against circular attacks. Wonderboy better bring something else to the table.
I feel for Wonderboy, too, as it's clear Dana does not want him fighting Woodley again. Till should be nowhere near a shot at Wonderboy until he has at least a couple more wins under his belt. Everything about this is geared to make a star out of Till and remove Wonderboy from the title equation once and for all. The usual sham from Dana, as to be expected and precisely why the UFC is still a fledgling, almost farcical sport in how fights are made by one man instead of an actual ranking system of any kind.
I get your point but I really can't blame Dana. That second fight was absolutely terrible, probably one of the dullest ever. Whilst people earn a title shot I agree I can't really see any advantage of having them fight again, it would do awful numbers. Thompson was the challenger and never actually had any moments in the fight, it's almost as if he froze.
I appreciate the point re Till being no where near Thompson but it can't work like that. If you have a potential star on your hands then they have to take chances. If they all had the attitude that people ranked below them aren't worthy we'd never have any fights. If Thompson wins he has the kudos of ending the hype train of Till. If Till wins then he could be the next big thing and there's no great shame in losing to him.
But this is supposed to be a professional sport with a professional system in place, not some underground tournament or the Colosseum and Dana shouldn't get to play god. The numbers, in that sense, should be irrelevant - the rightful challenger should get the shot, and then, if he wins, by all means get the rightful challengers in to dethrone him.
I don't like the fact Dana decides who gets fast-tracked and not the fighters themselves. Wonderboy has to take on Till, or else, and that's not right as Wonderboy has earned his rank over years and years of top competition and winning, and could have it snatched away from him by someone who has literally one fight at a comparable level to his name in the UFC, which is absurd. Truly.
I'm a big fan of Till, but as I stated earlier in the thread, those above him should be allowed to take the fight or leave it as they have everything to lose and very little to gain in fighting him - he does not deserve to be literally one fight away from a title shot, which he will be if/when he beats Wonderboy. In terms of trajectory, that's a potential champion of a division within three fights? Really? It's farcical and why UFC is a joke in regard to how fighters are treated, all at the hand of one man.
Surely as a professional sport and therefore a professional business the numbers should matter? Without people buying PPVs, going to events or whatever then there is no company and no sport to watch. I have been critical of Dana in the past and will continue to be so but this to me seems a good fight to make and a good way to potentially get some really good exposure for a new fighter. Thompson had his shot (twice) and blew it, the first fight was good albeit it is probably remembered more fondly than it was, the second fight was terrible. I think the UFC has had plenty of stupid undeserving challengers but Thompson having to fight Till and maybe losing a chance at a title shot isn't that bad for me.
If he lost would he really lose a rank? (Equally didn't you previously just say them rankings were absurd?) He's currently Number 1 ranked challenger. Lets say RDA beats Colby and for the sake of this argument Till beats Wonderboy. RDA is currently ranked 2, Wonderboy 1 and Till 7. I'd guess RDA goes to 1, Till goes to 2 and Wonderboy down to 3. It's hardly the end of the world really and a few more wins could see him climb the rankings again and maybe get another shot if Woodley loses his title. I agree Wonderboy is ahead of Till and rightfully so and should be favourite to win (I don't think he will be with the bookies though which will be tempting to put some money on) but there's got to be some kind of trigger pulled on young fighters or they will never get them to the next level. I agree with the sentiment of your Dana comments but I don't like the idea of fighters not being worthy. Till is a legitimate prospect so should get the shot. I didn't see these comments when Yair fought Edgar and that was more of a mismatch if anything.
For what it's worth I'm not a massive fan of the guy, he's an annoying twat who reminds me of Tony Bellew to much but I am looking forward to the fight. I don't think it's a huge joke he potentially gets a title shot if he won. Who else is there?
Nr 1) Thompson had his shot
nr 2)RDA Fighting Number 3 (I'd guess winner of this is Nr 1 contender)
Nr 3) Colby Fighting Number 2
Nr 4) Lawler - 1-2 in last 3, including KO by the current champ and easily outclassed by Nr 2. Equally his only win was a close decision vs. Cowboy (who Till easily beat)
Nr 5) Maia - Please no, not again. 0-2 in his last 2 including possibly the most boring title fight ever
Nr 6) Masvidal - 0-2 in his last 2
Nr 7) Usman - Not fought anyone of any note in the UFC
Equally I don't think it's that bad of a fight for Thompson. It comes with massive interest cos of the event being in Liverpool and Till has the hype behind him, if he won and KOed him or it's a hugely 1 sided and he puts on a dominant performance it does well for him. Till probably is overhyped but that can work in Thompson's favour as well.
This isn't WWE, though - it's professional martial arts combat where the rightful should challenge after earning it, not because they are popular! Perhaps it's too idealistic a slant, but it has merit in practically everything that is deemed professional, and sport. Rankings are there for a reason and shouldn't just be circumvented on the say so of an organiser over the actual competitors. We can say boxing is a sham for how fighters duck each other or drag it out, but at least there is some kind of system in place and not a kingpin who just pulls fights out of his ass on a whim.
I said months ago Conor would do what the hell he wants and not be stripped, because the UFC is a farce; what over sport could that happen in? The UFC doesn't even have an independent commission - it is extremely amatuerish and fledgling in a number of areas, which is why detractors don't take it seriously, not that that matters to fans, but the point still stands.
The point here is that unless Wonderboy wants the fight, it shouldn't even happen! Till should be begging those above him to fight, and they've been ducking him for an age for a reason - it gives them nothing to fight him until the time is due because he very probably can ruin their earnings and take their rank from them! I've no problem with a superior ranked fighter wanting to take on the challenge and Till getting his shot that way, but I loathe Dana making some poor sucker fight his next potential cash cow otherwise putting them to the bottom of the pile, like he is famed for doing.
You know yourself that if Wonderboy loses this fight, his profile will take a massive hit, and as that rank is essentially redundant in a Dana-led world, he'll put Wonderboy through the ringer because he's not a fan. Woodley knows, too, that once he loses the strap, he's effectively done because the ringmaster hates the way he fights as well as how much he sells.
My point re. Till is that he is a prospect, and as such, is a huge problem in the division, like I've said, and one fighters who have a ranking he wants will want to face as and when they have to after he becomes a financially viable opponent who always has as much to lose as they do! None will want to be his stepping stone to the big time, especially at their expense, but none of that matters when Dana's strong-arming those who have earned what they have to make them fight.
Wonderboy's been ducking Till for a good while for a reason... not even through fear, but just common sense that he is the rank and file, and Till is effectively nothing of worth to him and massive risk to take for no reason at all.
I've no qualms about Till's ability and right per talent to get the fights he seeks, but it's hardly the point. You look at a number of those guys and they are war-hardened vets who have earned their stripes. Till should be getting shots against the 7's and 6's, not the guys further up the food chain before time.
I think it's a terrible fight for him on every level, myself. A stylistic nightmare; a potential stripping of a strong position and rank; as you were if he wins with Dana using any of a plethora of counters for a victory.
Wonderboy is massively susceptible to Till's style - it's a crazy risk to be taking for no reward! But then again... he has no choice..
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My prayers have been answered!!
edit. confirmed now!!!
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Just about to watch the cage warriors re-run. Hopefully done decent fights
He was disqualified after it
He was disqualified after it
Feel bad for him being disqualified though.
The fight was still on... Its up top the ref to stop the fight.
cnutish move obviously but still not sure DQ was the right call.
He should be DQ'd and suspended for that. If it was UFC White would've Paul Daley'd him.
I never claimed it was WWE. Like I said Thompson had his shot twice and lost and drew. 2 of his last 3 fights have been title fights. I'd say the rankings are a bit of bollocks anyway really. I don't disagree with the logic Till is probably getting this fight to soon but so what. Boxing isn't the best example, fighters are often paid to sidestep fights and their ranking system are a bit of a mess at times to with so many belts etc. I think you've got to appreciate the UFC is a business at the end of the day. There has to be a middle ground surely? You can't expect the UFC to never try and hype up a fighter. If they think they're a big deal and there's an opportunity of using someone like Thompson who is free to fight and a big name (and potential to be a really good fight) why not do it? I don't get the sudden outrage of it being Till. it's probably happened hundreds of times in the past with the UFC and only now has it caused some kind of uproar? Is this the first time Number 8 has fought Number 1 ever? Wasn't Lee ranked about 7 when he got an IC shot with Ferguson? Yair Rodrigez when he fought Frankie Edgar etc. I bet there's hundreds of other examples.
Wonderboy's profile took a massive hit as well cos of how he chose to fight in 2 title fights, in particular the second one which is possibly one of the worst "fights" ever in the UFC. He did that, not Dana or anyone else so he has to build his stock up. A good way of doing so is taking a chance against a fighter in his home town and putting on a show. An event where interest will be massive as well cos of the hype.
I don't buy this the fighter shouldn't have to if they don't want to stuff either for every single fight. Till has huge hype behind him, you said it yourself literally no one wants to fight him so what does he do? By your logic he shouldn't fight anyone below him but everyone above him can turn down the fight if they want with no questions asked. So he either shadow boxes for 25minutes or just retires cos no one wants the fight? What good does it do Till fighting Condit or Edwards for example? What good does it do for the UFC? None at all, this fight does and that's why it's been made.
If he wins and KOs him or something I doubt people will say anything to try and turn it. They'd say it was a good victory. Thompson fecked himself over by having 2 terrible title fights, as long as Woodley is champion he won't get another one cos of how dull he made them last time. For me that's not Dana being a dick it's just common business sense.
I haven''t got a sudden outrage - I'm not even bothered about it, but it's a longstanding reason why some mock the sport and call it a farce. It isn't modelled correctly, and that's a bad look in a professional capacity. I'd say my issue here is that what we have is more akin to WWE than a proper and organised institution.
You're right - even N'gannou getting the shot like he did wasn't right, but I think it's even worse with Till and his one fight of any note. I mean what a leap. It boggles the mind.
The bolded, and what is the middle ground? Because it shouldn't be one man sitting there playing matchmaker!
You just said it's not WWE, but then go into a paragraph about entertainment? This is professional combat! Fighters should live and die by wins and losses not the show they put on!
The tenet of sport is to find out who is the best - not entertain the masses as that's a byproduct of watching the best go at it.
UFC was set up to determine what the best art and style was... not to bring in more PPV buys than the last event.
You don't wonder why clowns like CM Punk can fight, or why UFC and WWE has so many crossovers? It's because the UFC is not run like a professional sport with a governing body and sanctions.
Wonderboy building his stock should be as simple as winning more fights, that it isn't underlines the point.
No, I stated very succinctly what his path should be - one that is respectful to those above him who have earned their rank over years and years of blood, guts and tears. The only way that shouldn't be the case is if a [considerably] superior ranked fighter deigns him worthy of risking his own rank to fight him - either way, that should be down to the fighter who has earned his stripes, not Dana or hype.
The fight has been made to propel Till and feck Wonderboy in the event of a loss. It kills two birds with one stone and is absolutely perfect for Dana.
You've gone from entertainment to business and skipped the actual fighting, which is the very reason we're talking about the sport.. terrible fights because you were not entertained, is what you're saying, right? I really struggle to see combat in that way. Some fighters aren't my cup of tea, but I just avoid or know what I'm getting by watching.
Incidentally, I know what you're saying about the importance of the money making machine and I am being somewhat idealistic with some of the things I'm saying because I know the sport and the business model by which it has taken off is too far gone to do anything about.
I don't watch WWE and haven't for yours so I wouldn't compare the matchmaking to a fake entertainment. I just don't see why it's a big issue. I would if it was CM Punk (who you alluded to below rightfully) but Till is clearly a good fighter and an up and coming fighter, he beat someone in Cerrone who he had no business beating according to odds, Cerrone is a big name in MMA and that rightfully earned Till a lot of kudos. From there he became a big name overnight with huge hype behind him. They can build on that hype by putting him against other big names. I think their problem is that Cerrone is a big name so they had to go form there and fight another one. If he fought Magny or Usman for example it doesn't look great cos he's beat someone more recognisable already. If I had to compare it to boxing in terms of matchmaking I'd say it's kind of similar to Anthony Joshua. AJ was on a steady rise albeit with a load of hype and then the opportunity of a title came up against a lesser opponent and it was to good to turn down. I don't think matching Number 8 vs. Number 1 is a massive farce to be honest, I think it's just an interesting matchup and gives us the chance to look at 2 very good fighters going at it.
I don't know how the UFC works either but to my knowledge Dana doesn't play matchmaker all the times. They have actual matchmakers (i.e. Sean Shelby) who have an input to, Dana clearly likes Till I don't disagree, maybe it's just opinions cos I actually like the match up.
Sport is surely entertainment as well? They're not mutually exclusive. I agree your way is ideal but equally they need to put entertaining fights on. Till has a lot of hype behind him (funnily enough he's had some dud fights in the UFC) and Till is currently the one they see as entertaining in that division with hype behind him. If people weren't entertained they'd have no viewers for example I don't like rugby or formula 1 so I don't watch them cos I don't find them entertaining. I think Wonderboy shot himself in the foot with 2 pretty dull title fights and unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, it did him no favours. I think it'd be the same in other sports to, if Joseph Parker draws with AJ this weekend and then goes on to lose a fight similar to Woodley vs Wonderboy 2 I doubt there's going to be a rematch.
I think UFC does still determine the best though. They had Woodley vs Wonderboy, we should be getting Khabib vs Tony, Ortega vs Holloway, the lists go on. Sure there's fights that are stupid but there is some great fights to.
I dunno why there's UFC/WWE crossovers cos I don't watch WWE, the only ones I can think of are Shamrock, Ronda, Brock and Punk. Brock is a freak. I'd guess Shamrock and Ronda did it for money and Punk god knows why. It's a farce. I'm not sure if there's others there probably is, it is a bit odd though.
In fairness I get your point but I do think they were a bit stuck with him. It does seem fighters were actively avoiding him. Looking at the rankings as before Colby vs RDA fills 2 and 3 up. Lawler is injured for the year so he's done, Maia was an option and I'd agree maybe they avoided that one as it's a bad match up for TIll and potential for a boring fight, Masvidal said he won't be ready in time, Usman is ranked Nr 7 as is Till and is rumoured to not want to fight him. They were a bit stuck with it.
Yeah maybe that is the case but I do actually like watching Wonderboy, just them Woodley fights were bad and I'd imagine if they announced Woodley vs Wonderboy 3 for example it would just piss people off and it'd be awful for the UFC. Like I said there has to be some compromise for it. I think the next challenger will probably be Colby or RDA and an eliminator will be with Till/Wonderboy vs the winner of Usman vs. Santiago is my guess. I agree that could change if Till has a devastating quick KO of Wonderboy and RDA vs. Colby is a shocker. I think your approach is probably ideal for sport but in the real world where PPV numbers matter for combat sports it's not alwyas going to be 1 vs. 2 and people earning their way, people cut queues and get there first.
PS Sorry if this formatting doesn't work I tried making it easier to ready might backfire miserably.