Thing is, Max has pretty much cleared the division on the way up to the title so him going to a different weight class is fine.
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Yep, true. I'd still like to seem him defend at least a few more times and let the drama at lightweight unfold. Better yet, since Conor's been making a lot of noise recently and sounding like a jilted lover, maybe he should ease off on the steaks and take a trip back down.
The fundamental problem the UFC have right how is two fold.
1. Not enough marquee, big name fighters to sell adequate PPV cards
- No more Rousey, Conor, Lesnar, GSP, Jones et al to consistently rely on.
2. Not enough good fighters in general.
- You have one fighter in various divisions who cleans the entire division out and is now expected to change divisions for competition, and in the process vacate their old division which will be left for dead. That's precisely what would happen if Holloway leaves FW and Mighty Mouse leaves FlyW. The only three divisions that are genuinely interesting at this point are LW (mainly because of the impending clash between Conor and either of Tony or Khabib (with Kevin Lee and others lingering in the background); MW, because of the inevitable rematch between Romero and Whitaker with the likes of Rockhold and Jacare waiting in the wings, and possibly at LHW where despite DC's dominance, the likes of Latifi, Gustaffson, and Oezdemir make for a very interesting pool of contenders.
1. Not enough marquee, big name fighters to sell adequate PPV cards
- No more Rousey, Conor, Lesnar, GSP, Jones et al to consistently rely on.
2. Not enough good fighters in general.
- You have one fighter in various divisions who cleans the entire division out and is now expected to change divisions for competition, and in the process vacate their old division which will be left for dead. That's precisely what would happen if Holloway leaves FW and Mighty Mouse leaves FlyW. The only three divisions that are genuinely interesting at this point are LW (mainly because of the impending clash between Conor and either of Tony or Khabib (with Kevin Lee and others lingering in the background); MW, because of the inevitable rematch between Romero and Whitaker with the likes of Rockhold and Jacare waiting in the wings, and possibly at LHW where despite DC's dominance, the likes of Latifi, Gustaffson, and Oezdemir make for a very interesting pool of contenders.
I think that's part of the big problem. No one is arsed by the division to an extent either. MM is perfect example. If he left that division (and it already does awful numberS) then there's genuinely no interest in it as none of them have a legitimate claim to be the best and when they say they are people will rightly point out they're only the best cos the champion vacated. If Holloway steps up and then it's Ortega vs. Aldo or something for the title it's a good fight I'm sure but the reality is it's not the best fighter it's the 2 who are there by default.
Looks like he's going up to LHW. It'll probably bring a premature end to his new modelling career.
Yeah that would be a mistake. He still has the frame to compete at MW. If he moves up, he'd get hammered by the likes of Oezdemir and Gustafffson.
I think both Max and Ortega much like Connor are big for the division. Probably more naturally 155’ers. When you see the size of Ortega compared to Edgar also it must take a lot for both Ortega and Max to make that weight.feck!! I was kinda happy Ortega defeated Edgar because it's the best result for the division. The young guys taking over instead of the typical old school guys.
But now he says he wants to defeat Holloway and move up to lightweight for blah blah blah blah... the same old bullshit $$$$.
He won't get past Max Holloway though. Specially if he is already thinking that ahead into the future.
Big issue is the UFC has consistently marketed the UFC brand over fighters, and when they do market a fighter, it's always a case of too many eggs in one basket. You build up one or two mega stars, and then they get exposed (Rousey) or decide not to fight (McGoats) and the UFC is up shit creek without a paddle.
How so? I get what you're saying, and it's anything but ideal, but their situation is hardly "up shit creek without a paddle."
They are up shits creek without a paddle for two primary reasons.
1. Their revenue model is based on consistently selling PPV events to American viewers. That is problematic because PPV broadcasts are routinely undercut by people who choose instead to stream events for free on the internet, and as Nucks mentioned; 2. Having only a small handful of fighters who are capable of drawing big PPV numbers is also problematic when many of them leave the sport, thereby leaving 2nd tier PPV fighters to carry all the water. What this means is that they are not growing any more, and in certain instances, they are shrinking.
You previously posted a link yourself that showed that, overall, the UFC is doing well enough in terms of PPV sales. To recap that conclusion:
What set of numbers is it that warrants the statement that the UFC is "up shit creek without a paddle"? Bear in mind, I'm not entering this to be a contrarian or paint a picture of the Garden of Eden on behalf of the UFC. If I'm missing something, I genuinely want you to educate me on it.
On the second point, it will remain a truism that a company will invariably suffer when losing its biggest draws, but this all relates back to the first point, and, to reiterate, I'm curious as to what it is that I'm missing.
If you get into the numbers, they are only doing well of late because they got lucky by having each of McGregor, Rousey, Jon Jones, and GSP fight at various times over the past couple of years. These fighters are now either gone, suspended, or no longer regularly active now, so looking ahead, they will no get good PPV numbers until McGregor decides to fight again, and that is of course if he decides to return and fight consistently (which is debatable). All things said, they are not doing well given the departures of their big earners.
It depends what qualifies as "good." Cyborg did good numbers against Holm, Khabib vs. Tony will do good, as would potential fights between Hollway/Ortega and Miocic/Cormier. If you're talking about excellent numbers, sure, those won't be coming in without one of the aforementioned names any time soon. I'm just not sure that warrants the assessment that the company is "up shit creek without a paddle," especially since they also might make new stars out of current talents that push those "good" numbers up.
Good would be 600k or above. Excellent would be 800 or above.
Cyborg v Holm did about 380k. UFC 220 (Cormier v Oezdemir, Ngganou v Miocic) only did 350k
For comparison Rashad v Rampage did 1m eight years ago. When you take away the big earners, UFC will struggle to grow.
Could do. Could also pick up after the slump because, unless anybody in the MMA community is Nostradamus, who is to say a new set of stars is or isn't around the corner. Supposing there's a failure to capitalise on new opportunities to make new ones, they'll be forced to address it at some point anyway when they know for a fact that none of those names are returning to help them out of the shit, leading me to believe that their situation isn't quite as dire as is being made out.
I just refuse to believe that a company as big and potentially profitable as the UFC is going to let it all go to shit. If I'm wrong, so be it.
The UFC is making up for a lack of a draw, by numbers. They are putting out more cards, these cards consistently perform well below what the cards 8 or so years ago were doing, but by having so many they make up the difference.
The issue is over saturation of the market and people becoming disinterested. Then if you lose a massive investment like Rousey, or McGregor, you lose the big bumps that prop the whole thing up. Their PPV per card numbers are WAY down. People are opting out. They are only making headway by putting out way more cards. Is that sustainable? I don't think so.
The issue is over saturation of the market and people becoming disinterested. Then if you lose a massive investment like Rousey, or McGregor, you lose the big bumps that prop the whole thing up. Their PPV per card numbers are WAY down. People are opting out. They are only making headway by putting out way more cards. Is that sustainable? I don't think so.
I think the Fertita Brothers saw the writing on the wall and sold at precisely the right time, as things have been on a slide ever since they made the sale. Conor rarely fights any more, Rousey gone, Jones suspended, GSP more or less gone (again), and literally no new stars on the horizon.
Nobody is saying the UFC is going to collapse. They are saying it's being mismanaged. It's a well known fact that the UFC has promoted the brand over the fighters for a very long time. Instead of having a company on top of things, you've got a fire brigade running around putting out fires. Promotion of the company over the fighters. Means that WHEN a big name fecks off, they are left scrambling to invent a NEW big draw. This is what they do, this is what Zuffa did and the new ownership inherited. The UFC has very rarely had self made PPV draws. GSP and Jones largely made it by beating everyone down. Rousey and McGregor got the weight of the UFC PR machine behind them. The problem is, he UFC isn't planning for the future. They are not building future stars. They don't give them (fighters) the opportunity in most cases to organically build their brand. So when Rousey, GSP, McGregor etc leave the sport, suddenly there is no plan B. There is no big name draw to step in and fill the void. There isn't even someone who is sort of a draw who can consistently put up 600-800k PPV buys. So then the UFC has to scramble to replace that drop off.
Here is my prediction, if McGregor stays inactive, and even if he comes back, you will see a new big hype fighter built up by ufc PR. It was Sage Northcutt and Paige Van Zandt, but they are both shit so it didn't work out.
I think this kind of stuff shows the UFC is struggling with stars somewhat. CM Punk was a joke, he should be nowhere near the UFC yet is getting a second fight.
God help us all.
I don't think they did, rather it was about disagreeing with your initial assessment that it was quite so bad.
They'd certainly be more likely to build more stars by simply reducing the number of PPVs, as there are currently too many for fans to realistically keep track of, let alone watch in their entirety and feel emotionally invested in. If they want to keep pursuing a Northcutt or VanZant, they'll be bitterly disappointed. My prediction is that they'll strike gold at some point and be onto another winner, pulling them out of whatever slump they find themselves in. What I actually think will happen is that McGregor will instantly be more interested in a return once Khabib and Tony settle the lightweight title issue. That fight and Holloway down at featherweight would be difficult to resist.
At least it's in Chicago. He's not guaranteed to be booed out of the building.
Mickey Gall hasn't done much since he beat him. They should just go for a trilogy.
You reap what you sow. It's obvious that Jones was a big screw up who couldn't be trusted. It was obvious that Rousey was nowhere near the talent they built her up to be.
Conor worked his ass off and basically built himself up, obviously his knockout record and exciting fighting style helped too. However the UFC didn't seem to listen to him when he said 'get in, get rich and get out'. They gave him the Mayweather fight without realising that Conor would hold them over a barrel for him to fight again. In fact why should he get punched in the face for any less than he made against Floyd? That's what he feels he's worth now.
They have marketable fighters like Khabib, Holloway and others but they put themselves in a position where Conor owns them to the point where he hasn't even been stripped yet. Jesus they pushed Ngannou to the point of ignoring their current champ who was on the brink of breaking the defense record and is a KO machine for the most part.
Hate to say it but it could be a while for them to find someone who can talk as good as Conor, who is willing to put the promotional work in as Conor and, most importantly, is as good a fighter with an exciting style like Conor. They stupidly thought they could trust a guy who has only ever looked out for himself and those close to him and made it clear he only cared about the money.
They won't go under but they'll pay for putting all their eggs in a few baskets that couldn't be counted on.
Conor worked his ass off and basically built himself up, obviously his knockout record and exciting fighting style helped too. However the UFC didn't seem to listen to him when he said 'get in, get rich and get out'. They gave him the Mayweather fight without realising that Conor would hold them over a barrel for him to fight again. In fact why should he get punched in the face for any less than he made against Floyd? That's what he feels he's worth now.
They have marketable fighters like Khabib, Holloway and others but they put themselves in a position where Conor owns them to the point where he hasn't even been stripped yet. Jesus they pushed Ngannou to the point of ignoring their current champ who was on the brink of breaking the defense record and is a KO machine for the most part.
Hate to say it but it could be a while for them to find someone who can talk as good as Conor, who is willing to put the promotional work in as Conor and, most importantly, is as good a fighter with an exciting style like Conor. They stupidly thought they could trust a guy who has only ever looked out for himself and those close to him and made it clear he only cared about the money.
They won't go under but they'll pay for putting all their eggs in a few baskets that couldn't be counted on.
CM Punk opponent?
McGregor definitely did not build himself up. Once the UFC saw he was marketable(He's a character), they threw the weight of UFC marketing behind him, and gave him the path of absolute least resistance to two title shots. We actually talked about this in this thread awhile ago. I ran down his path to Aldo, and if memory serves, he fought 2 guys who were top 10 in the division at the time he fought them on his run to Aldo, and one of them took the fight on 7 days notice or something, and he was not in peak condition. He avoided 7 other opponents who were top 10 during that run.
I'd argue that had the UFC not made McGregor a darling, it's debatable he would have ever gotten to Aldo before he got beaten. McGregor got to skip he queue, and avoid the best wrestlers in the division, or fight one of them, who was not in camp and was not in proper condition. McGregor did beat who they put in front of him, until 155 pound journeyman Nate Diaz stole his soul when they both went up to 170, so you can't take the fact he did beat who he had to beat away from him. However, he quite literally had the luck of the Irish with him by avoiding the murderers row of dudes at 145 and 155.
In Eddie Alvarez, McGregor imo got the ideal match. Sort of like GSP and Bisping. GSP beats Bisping, he probably loses to almost everyone else in the top 5 of 185, he might beat Rockhold cause Rockhold is has a fight IQ that would embarrass a rock. McGregor got Alvarez, who just isn't very good, but managed to get a win over Dos Anjos.
Now McGregor is inactive, and he is creeping up on the magical age where fighters who predicate their skillset on speed and reflexes (McGregor is a reflex based counter puncher) start to drop off because their body just can't keep up with their reflexes. We might actually get robbed of seeing how good McGregor actually is/was because he hasn't tested himself against enough of the greats of his era.
His best wins right now are Holloway, who was a kid when he beat him, and Aldo, which could have been a fecking fluke. Although it's quite clear now that Aldo has been bitten by father time, he's slower, and he's the right age for that slow down. McGregor is now looking down the barrel of father time in the next couple years too. So it will be interesting to see if he sticks to his guns and doesn't fight, or if he tries to get some legacy wins before some 25 year old in his physical prime turns him into a scalp.
It's time to touch butt
....in the park.
Rogan's Podcast with Yoel Romero was great. Hopefully someone brings out a subtitled version as apparently (and expectedly) Joey Diaz's translations weren't always on point.
The Cuban system is incredible. Ironically very ruthless in it's competitive nature, which isn't what you'd expect from a socialist country. Damn effective though. They pair the best with the best and have them train and compete with each other all around the world.
The Cuban system is incredible. Ironically very ruthless in it's competitive nature, which isn't what you'd expect from a socialist country. Damn effective though. They pair the best with the best and have them train and compete with each other all around the world.
I'd argue that Conor has always been a shit talker and made his own success in that regard. The UFC simply threw their weight behind him but it was Conor alone that ultimately propelled himself to that level through a mix of his talking and fighting style. Also his willingness to put the amount of effort he did into PR that most fighters would never agree to.
He may have been given preferential treatment but honestly who out of that top 10 could have beaten him? Lamas, Edgar, Cub? I'd give Edgar a decent chance but the rest of the top 10 next to none. He also had less UFC fights than Max when they fought (I love Max and would love to see a rematch btw). Not to mention that Dustin has gone on to establish himself as a very good LW fighter.
The Aldo knockout was never a fluke. He was literally seen practicing that punch in the backstage before the fight. He said himself that Aldo would know it was over within the first exchange even if Conor felt the fight would go a little longer than it did.
He fought Mendes on a bum knee and having trained for a totally different style. A fight he didn't have to take but did anyway. He knocked him out in the 2nd round.
Alvarez counts as a top level win because he is one of the best LW of all time. Most fancied Eddie because his wrestling was meant to give Conor trouble. He not only beat him but took him apart with no trouble. Alongside Jones v Shogun as probably the most one sided beat down in UFC title match history. Also it must be remembered that he signed to fight RDA who subsequently pulled out and again instead of waiting around he agreed to fight Nate for no real reward. Thank God he did because it gave us two of the most enjoyable fights I've seen.
I stand by the point I made that the UFC put their trust in a guy who couldn't be trusted and they've paid for it. He always said it was about the money for him and they let him make more money off of Floyd than he could in 5 UFC bouts. That's their fault. I miss him fighting and would love to see him take on Ferguson and Khabib but I also respect the fact that he is pushing for the UFC to pay him what he's worth.
On potential future bouts at 155: I think he'd beat Max if he can get him out early, not so sure about the later rounds if Max can bring it there. I think he'd knock out Ferguson. Him and Khabib is a 50:50 shoot out to see who can impose their game before the other one does.
Bisping is awesome.
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London early prelims about to start...
Good first round for Godbeer.
WTF. This is on early for me. 
holy cow!
what a fecking submission from Paul Craig... 2 seconds to go.
Shit fighter still, but wow... he got pounded for 3 rounds and won it in the last 5 seconds.
what a fecking submission from Paul Craig... 2 seconds to go.
Shit fighter still, but wow... he got pounded for 3 rounds and won it in the last 5 seconds.