Ten Hag sacked | Ruud appointed Interim Manager

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Acheron said:
I thought you were not going to sack him regardless of the shit results. :lol:

The thing is it has come way too late yet again. I think that has been one of the problems with your team, sticking way too long with underperforming managers and players. This should had happened one year ago, so it all just amounts to a waste of time and resources. Nevertheless it was the right thing to do.
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It's a unique aspect of our dysfunction as a fanbase. Many of us seem to think (SAF) = manager = god. So we get what we deserve.

Thank god INEOS are changing the job title. Little things like that will help reprogramme the fanbase.

And hopefully Berrada sticks by the two-seasons-to-prove-yourself-or-you're-out rule for players. How the likes of Shaw are still here is beyond me.
 
hobbers said:
How can people still have such a wildly deluded view of football management?
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Give me time, I'll catch up if I am.

hobbers said:
Firstly we weren't 'surviving a lull', we were being decimated by a fraud. But even if it was just a lull, managers only survive lulls when they've earned that time by improving the team and the quality of football, and/or winning titles.
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Two trophies and a top 4 in two seasons doesn't buy much I guess.
hobbers said:
If a manager cant improve things in 1-2 years, he will never be able to improve them in 3, 4 or 5+. It has never happened, no club from the top of the Prem to the bottom of Conference North has ever been stupid enough to even let one try.
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You and I are here because this club did once upon a time.
 
hobbers said:
No they dont, because they were not indicative of any improvement in the football or the results or the trajectory towards winning titles.

What happened in 1990 is not relevant to 2024. Obviously. That's why in the last 20 years no club on the planet has given a manager that sort of time unless they met progress targets.
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I'll catch up to the new standard, I'm working this out in real time.
 
Results dictated this had to happen in the end. Good luck to him; I fully expect he’ll go elsewhere and do well, but this one ran its course.
 
hobbers said:
How can people still have such a wildly deluded view of football management?

Firstly we weren't 'surviving a lull', we were being decimated by a fraud. But even if it was just a lull, managers only survive lulls when they've earned that time by improving the team and the quality of football, and/or winning titles.

If a manager cant improve things in 1-2 years, he will never be able to improve them in 3, 4 or 5+. It has never happened, no club from the top of the Prem to the bottom of Conference North has ever been stupid enough to even let one try.
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And normally when a big club goes through a lull and sticks with a manager, it's because there's something to give you an inkling that they can turn it around. You can have terrible results and still show some signs of what you're trying to build, maybe with better players.

But with Ten Hag it doesn't matter. There was nothing. The results were awful, but the performances were just as bad, if not worse, most of the time.
 
Finally over and think it would've been better if it happened after Villa game but it is what it is. Most of the season yet to be played so hopefully we can save the season.

3rd place finish in 22/23 was nice (7-0 aside) and winning 2 domestic cups was great after years without trophies. However, we've been awful in league (and Europe) for two seasons now. Negative goal difference since last season started is terrible stat. Performances last season were terrible as well, bit better this season but not good enough again. So many defeats, so many games where we conceded 3 goals, it's just been really poor.

Win vs City in Fa Cup final definitely best moment of his tenure. That followed by 4-3 vs Liverpool, beating Newcastle in Carabao final and Barca win in Europa. Also Garnacho and Mainoo developing under him.
 
saik said:
Good talents, nothing more than that. Atleast not yet. They have to show a lot more to be considered special talents. As United fans, we have this habit of overrating our academy players by quite a lot.

Take someone like Savio(not even going as far as Yamal) who is the same age as Garnacho, he's already is a way better dribbler, makes smarter decisions on the pitch and looks to pass from time to time.

Same with Mainoo. Very composed player with good dribbling on him who can do the basics right but there's a lot more that he needs to show. You rarely see Mainoo play any line breaking through balls or long range passes.

I know this is not the thread for this but I hope we as fans don't over hype them and then arrogance creeps into their play because they think they are better than what they are.
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Well yeah I meant they are special talent in relative terms. Such academic breakthroughs are a glimmer of hope if not more, when everything else is utterly abysmal.

Drawing comparison with the likes of Savio, Yamal, et al isn't fair at this point as they play for top-notch teams in a highly cohesive and functional units. Also, they feed on the benefits of their pre-eminent playing ecosystems. And yes Yamal is currently unparalleled.

Garnacho although exciting, his overall game still has a lot to be desired. Mainoo discernibly regressed in his second season which many had expected. Having said that, they being part of an atrocious setup isn't helping in their progress. They are young and can still touch their higher ceiling in a competent setup. Hope.
 
Yorkeontop said:
I'm still getting the hang of this, bear with me. It just looks like rinse and repeat for now.

He was two results away from keeping his job, that's my perspective.

Time will tell.
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Most sensible thing that has been said.
I'm of the mind that at the London meeting a decision was made to give him 3 or four games to produce a mini winning run, and that hasn't happened, plus on top of that there appears to be no sign of it happening.
It must have been a difficult decision to make, after all they backed him with a contract extension and another £200m

The other issue that Ratcliffe has is that he has £500m in ex Ajax players who don't look as though they are suited to the EPL.
 
Acheron said:
I thought you were not going to sack him regardless of the shit results. :lol:

The thing is it has come way too late yet again. I think that has been one of the problems with your team, sticking way too long with underperforming managers and players. This should had happened one year ago, so it all just amounts to a waste of time and resources. Nevertheless it was the right thing to do.
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I seriously doubt anyone here believed ETH would never have been sacked, regardless of his performance as manager.

But you are right that the club waited too long. We should have sacked ETH right after the FA Cup win, although others argue he should have been sacked earlier than that. If nothing else, the duress that ETH was under during the period when other managers were interviewed made his position untenable and we saw predictably poor play during the summer friendlies and of course during the season itself, with the notable exception of a very decent performance against City in the Community Shield.
 
Matt Varnish said:
I'm of the mind that at the London meeting a decision was made to give him 3 or four games to produce a mini winning run, and that hasn't happened, plus on top of that there appears to be no sign of it happening.
It must have been a difficult decision to make, after all they backed him with a contract extension and another £200m
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I think they already knew he was going to be sacked whatever the results. Performances were not convincing at all (and apparently that's the more important thing). Everything is playing out the way The Muppetiers claimed it would. I know people don't rate them, but they've been spot on since the takeover business. Hell, just this morning (local time) they were talking up Amorim and Frank being leading candidates even before the news broke about Amorim, and saying the only way ETH is getting sacked now is because Berrada and them have heard back from a candidate.
 
Juansar_07 said:
Well yeah I meant they are special talent in relative terms. Such academic breakthroughs are a glimmer of hope if not more, when everything else is utterly abysmal.

Drawing comparison with the likes of Savio, Yamal, et al isn't fair at this point as they play for top-notch teams in a highly cohesive and functional units. Also, they feed on the benefits of their pre-eminent playing ecosystems. And yes Yamal is currently unparalleled.

Garnacho although exciting, his overall game still has a lot to be desired. Mainoo discernibly regressed in his second season which many had expected. Having said that, they being part of an atrocious setup isn't helping in their progress. They are young and can still touch their higher ceiling in a competent setup. Hope.
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Savio was impressive even last season when he wasn't playing for City. Agreed, the setup definitely didn't help but if they are to considered special talents they should be able to show more. Especially someone like Garnacho who has been given the freedom to do whatever he wants on the pitch. I give Mainoo more leeway as he was tasked to cover for Casemiro/Eriksen a lot of times.
 
This should put to rest, for now, all the hype that was created about the new leadership being more professional and not jokers like the Glazers, Woodward etc.

It's absolute nonsense the way this saga has developed over the last 6 months. It makes no sense that you choose not to sack EtH before the end of last season because of one result, before which you remember we lucky to beat a Championship team, give him over 200m EUR to spend and then sack him a couple of months into the new season.

Not only did you waste an entire summer on a manager you didn't fully trust, in the process letting go of the chance to sign quality replacements before (Tuchel, Flick), thereby reducing your pool of managers to sign outright, but also made it more difficult to sign managers now since we're in the middle of the season and clubs would be less willing to let them go. What changed between May and now that they felt EtH either wasn't the right man or that there are better options? It's not as if we were playing great football last season. Almiron was available then as well, Tuchel and Flick were there too so it was a much better group of managers to pick from.

England look like geniuses for getting Tuchel two weeks ago, they predicted we would inevitably sack EtH and Tuchel would be on our list.
 
good by and good riddance ..... should have happened post city game but the board just like many fans on here got hoodwinked by 1 game and here we are 6 months behind ....
 
hasanejaz88 said:
This should put to rest, for now, all the hype that was created about the new leadership being more professional and not jokers like the Glazers, Woodward etc.

It's absolute nonsense the way this saga has developed over the last 6 months. It makes no sense that you choose not to sack EtH before the end of last season because of one result, before which you remember we lucky to beat a Championship team, give him over 200m EUR to spend and then sack him a couple of months into the new season.

Not only did you waste an entire summer on a manager you didn't fully trust, in the process letting go of the chance to sign quality replacements before (Tuchel, Flick), thereby reducing your pool of managers to sign outright, but also made it more difficult to sign managers now since we're in the middle of the season and clubs would be less willing to let them go. What changed between May and now that they felt EtH either wasn't the right man or that there are better options? It's not as if we were playing great football last season. Almiron was available then as well, Tuchel and Flick were there too so it was a much better group of managers to pick from.

England look like geniuses for getting Tuchel two weeks ago, they predicted we would inevitably sack EtH and Tuchel would be on our list.
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saik said:
Also, for all those saying this new structure and INEOS are no better than the previous one. When Jose was sacked and Ole was made interim or when Ole was sacked and Rangnick was made interim we didn't move this quickly for our next manager. We dithered for weeks to make a decision on permanent manager. Hopefully people see that.
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Tuchel probably was never seriously considered for the role. If he was, we would have sacked ETH before Tuchel went to England. There's a lot that might have been discussed behind the scenes that we aren't privy to. They made the decision now and didn't dither about trying to get the new guy in.

None of the media knew we were sacking ETH today either. Who knows, we might have been working on getting Amorim behind the scenes for a few weeks now?
 
Yorkeontop said:
I'm 90% sure we'll find ourselves in a similar spot with the next manager. At some point, we are going to have to commit like we're married and hoping to survive a lull. No realistic replacement is turning this around in 2 seasons, even Pep would do well to do that.
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You're 90% sure we'll end up in 14th and performing consistently like a 14th place club for over a year under the next guy?
 
It's frustrating this wasn't done in the summer, but it's a positive that it's been done early enough in the season that there's something actually salvageable from this.
 
Yorkeontop said:
I'm 90% sure we'll find ourselves in a similar spot with the next manager. At some point, we are going to have to commit like we're married and hoping to survive a lull. No realistic replacement is turning this around in 2 seasons, even Pep would do well to do that.
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Why not? Didn’t Emery change the fortunes of a club in less than 15 months? It’s about getting right manager and staff in.
 
saik said:
Tuchel probably was never seriously considered for the role. If he was, we would have sacked ETH before Tuchel went to England. There's a lot that might have been discussed behind the scenes that we aren't privy to. They made the decision now and didn't dither about trying to get the new guy in.

None of the media knew we were sacking ETH today either. Who knows, we might have been working on getting Amorim behind the scenes for a few weeks now?
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A lot of the media were privy to us having discussions with managers before the summer, so I wouldn't say we are able to hide a lot. Maybe we did never consider Tuchel but then you had Flick. Many would consider Flick as hindsight but I've always considered him a top level manager, would've loved him here.

Even if you consider we've known Amorim is the man we want, again he was available in the summer as well so you could've given him much more time to get the team in order.
 
FrantikChicken said:
Agreed! I actually thought he’d eventually bench Bruno when he first came in, but he turned him into captain instead.

As for Rashford, I bet you he miraculously gets a lot better right away
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Yeah. His inability to trust youth and drop the older players played a part in his own downfall. Hopefully who ever replaces him learns from ETH’s mistake.
 
Yorkeontop said:
Give me time, I'll catch up if I am.


Two trophies and a top 4 in two seasons doesn't buy much I guess.

You and I are here because this club did once upon a time.
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Everyone knew he was lucky to win the FA cup, the first goal blunder, Amrabat having the game of his life just to name a couple, it was a straight shoot out in a derby final
His league performances have been getting worse since the league cup win!
He was backed to the hills and emptied our war chest
Not up to it simply put, I appreciate someone has to play devils advocate but everyone knew this was going to happen in the summer
 
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