Yeah agreed and think it’s the right way to go - Liverpool also done the same with Slot.
Therefore if things with a ‘head coach’ do go South you don’t end up with a team full of their players - like we do now!
Ten Hag sacked | Ruud appointed Interim Manager
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
- Status
Therefore if things with a ‘head coach’ do go South you don’t end up with a team full of their players - like we do now!
No, it's not about being literal. Tiki Taka and Total Football are fairly different. One relies heavily on dominating transition and battering the opposition in transition(both ways) but with a massive emphasis on technique while the other relies heavily on being patient and in the belief that your superior technicity will provoke mistakes during the recycling phase.
Cruyff has nothing to do with Tiki Taka, that part is Aragones, Del Bosque and a few other spanish coaches. Guardiola mixed that with the work of two other coaches that he admired which are Lillo and Bielsa, the latter being actually closer to Cruyff since he also loves Total Football, pressing and counter pressing. The influence of Cruyff at Barcelona today or in the 2000s wasn't really tactical but more in the idea that La Masia needs to produce technically superior players, the same way Ajax does.
In fact if you want to link a previous manager to Tiki Taka it would be LVG but he failed to introduce his possession oriented ideas and from memory Cruyff didn't like that aspect of LVG's philosophy.
Was at least one league title that was there to be won by Arteta and he blew it. What we can hope for is winning more than one trophy in 5 years which isn't unrealistic lets be fair, sure even under Ten Hag United managed to win two trophies.
likely nothing to do with ten hag, just funny - and the timing
That was a joke.
Before you say anything else (who knows these days) - what I meant was this:
Our biggest problem after Fergie retired has been the decision makers above the so-called manager (not the so-called manager himself). That is my opinion.
So now, when it is announced that ETH is finally sacked (well deserved), I ask people not to focus too much on him (who is now history - and rightfully, thankfully so), but rather on the people above him (who are, and have always been, ever since Fergie retired, the REAL problem).
I hope that makes it clearer.
That's not a reason to think that he failed or hasn't been good for Barcelona. And in 2021 their squad was absolutely a mess, we are talking about the team that had to sign the likes of Depay, Luuk De Jong, Aubameyang and a bunch of over dross. He took over a terrible squad and did well, they improved it during summer and he won the league.
I think people are being a bit too harsh concerning INEOS. I would have sacked him even before the final, but they persisted. In truth, this took place without Berrarda and Ashworth, however, in keeping him and backing him in the market, time and with coaches, Ten Hag has been given as much room to succeed as anyone could possibly provide. Its a game of optics, and I think United ended up winning, no matter how much Sky will try and twist this to act like Ten Hag was a sitting duck manager. The question prior to this season, by people who were still making excuses for him, was whether Ten Hag could succeed under the right conditions, the definitive answer was NO. All it took to show us that last season was no fluke was 2 and a half bad months, which allowed the other 50% of the fanbase to turn or at least accept the fact that he deserves the sack.
From what I've seen of INEOS, they are quite measured in their approach to things and not as optically inclined as the Glazers/Woodward are. I think they always planned to take their time with this appointment, which is why RVN was brought in in the first place. They've shown with transfers, executive appointments and the lack of leaks that they operate with swift discretion. What's interesting now is the type of manager they appoint. I actually believe they've come to some sort of understanding already of options available to them in regard to managers.
Ultimately, for me, I'd much rather have United play scintillating football that entertains me and compete for the title regularly than to win a League Cup title and an FA Cup while playing absolute shit, inconsistent football that bores and annoys me.
I am expecting some tactical changes whenever there is change of manager. Substitutions to start with.
I think it is a myth that there exists coaching staff which can turn the tide over-night. It does not exist.
Managers have to incorporate their vision to the coaching staff and they will implement that. Coaching staff cant come up with innovative ideas, it has to be from Manager.
Measured isn't the word I'd use for their tenure so far. At least they've done it at last though, even it was too late, and hopefully there's something behind the madness of keeping this manager on past the Liverpool and Spurs results this season. Hopefully.
maybe new tactics will help.. such as passing to someone who's made a good run! I still think Hojilund can score a few with better service
United have been shit and boring but a big six club should be winning more than one trophy in 5 seasons. Of what I've watched of Arsenal under their current manager especially against any decent team they haven't been scintillating or very entertaining.
Too little too late. Thanks for the FA cup. New era. I hope it will be all rainbows and unicorns.
Thank fhehck
One Eric, Two Cups
Getting rashford to pass ? Even garna will take a shot that pass to the striker
Probably rules out a fair few candidates. Someone like Xavi would make sense in that regard.
Out of all the sackings we've had once fergie, he's the one I feel most for. He's a good manager, maybe even great but he had to go. Both things can be true.
Great? That’s seriously pushing it.
Right decision, shame it ended the way it has, but it was always inevitable. Brief period in late 2022/early 2023 with wins against Barcelona and the league cup win showed potential. But last season was a mess, too many humiliations results and some shocking performances which have sadly manifested into this season (Liverpool and Tottenham game at home).
He'll have the 4-3 win against Liverpool, the Barcelona wins and beating City 2-1 at OT
Thanks for the League Cup and FA Cup
He'll have the 4-3 win against Liverpool, the Barcelona wins and beating City 2-1 at OT
Thanks for the League Cup and FA Cup
On what evidence??
I agree that he isn't right for United. I think we need a manager who has spent some real time in a top league and has a very clear and tested vision of how he wants his team to play. By the same token, standards at United are at an all time low in some respects. Amongst the hierarchy, I think we have the clearest vision we've had in a long, long time, but on the pitch we just extended a manager that finished 8th in the League, and let him go multiple weeks in the bottom half before we took action. That means that the new manager coming in has a very low bar to clear. In some ways that means we have an opportunity to go after a bold, young coach because their initial "success" will be all relative to what came before. Despite the 14th place, the home fans had yet to really turn on ETH - which is frankly incredible - and of all the top jobs out there, I think United is the one with the most upside. Anyone getting a top six finish, will automatically be seen as a vast improvement. As much as United can ever be "low pressure", this is as low pressure as United will ever get.
Thomas Frank seems to be the favourite right now, and as a very pragmatic and flexible coach, I think he will do okay. He will drill the fundamentals into the players and I think we'd become much harder to beat, much tighter defensively, and across the board more organised. I don't think I've seen anything from Frank that suggests that he'd be a revolutionary appointment. I don't see a tactical visionary. But I do see someone that will create a compact, hard working side that plays to it's strengths, instead of trying to emulate what people expect of him. That might be exactly what United need right now. He has finished 13th, 9th and 16th with Brentford in the PL, albeit the last one without his top scorer who was banned for the second half of the season. It doesn't look spectacular, but it's been done on very limited resources, with a very limited playing squad. How he deals with the bigger egos in the dressing room etc., would be interesting; but I do think the squad is full of players that would suit Frank's style quite well. De Ligt, Martinez, Maguire, and Yoro is an excellent set of center backs for him, in midfield he obviously knows Eriksen well, and I think Mainoo and Ugarte are tailor made for his style of football. I can also see him restraining Casemiro to focus on doing what he's good at, in the areas he's most familiar with. Rather than the marauding nonsense we've seen the last 18 months. I can see him getting plenty out of Hojlund, and under Frank I would not be surprised to see Fernandes shift wider right, and focus on getting quality deliveries into the box.
Amorim and Nagelsmann would be much more adventurous appointments. Young managers still making their way in the game, but both with a lot of credibility in the game. However, I can easily see United being the breaking of them. The squad is ingrained with bad habits, and I don't think either have been tested to the level the United job would test them. Nagelsmann perhaps at Bayern, but I think that's nothing like the environment he would face at United.
The only coach I see out there that actually has the experience, strength of character, resilience, and pedigree to check all the boxes as a transformative United leader, is Emery. But I don't see any chance whatsoever in that happening.
Seems like at this point what's needed is a competent midtable manager, so we could get comfortably into the top 10.
'In good teams, coaches hold players accountable. In great teams, players hold players accountable.' -Roy Keane 2024
On far too many occasions under Eth, players were constantly selected after poor performances, there was no consequences.
On far too many occasions under Eth, players were constantly selected after poor performances, there was no consequences.
Pains me to see Erik go. Highly coveted coach when he was hired and got an unanimous approval. However, this had to be done. Probably long overdue which has disrupted the new season too.
While a highly disenchanting league performance, helped us add 2 more trophies to the collection. Additionally, brought special talents in Garnacho and Mainoo to the fore.
Had the board parted ways at the end of the Cup win, he would have gone on a high. Disillusioned and baffled by the delayed decision.
Anyways, all the best 10 Hag and wish him a successful managerial stint elsewhere. Eh.
While a highly disenchanting league performance, helped us add 2 more trophies to the collection. Additionally, brought special talents in Garnacho and Mainoo to the fore.
Had the board parted ways at the end of the Cup win, he would have gone on a high. Disillusioned and baffled by the delayed decision.
Anyways, all the best 10 Hag and wish him a successful managerial stint elsewhere. Eh.
Whether it was an actual case of bad luck, or simply a mismatch, this was coming. Based on the first half an odd choice, perhaps, but then again, you can only have so many games where one half is good, whether it's the first or the second, and especially without results, before concluding that this trajectory is not an upward one, whether those halves did or did not look promising.
As always, you cannot proof if things wouldn't start clicking and rolling from the next game onward, but based on the recent patterns, and with the past seasons in mind, this conclusion is at least not illogical. Based on the earlier statements, perhaps it made more sense to see out more return of injuries and new players adapting to the club and league and such, but sometimes it is better to change your mind, to realize that your previous plan had a shorter expiry date than you calculated.
But it does show how easy it is for people to call managers and players and clubs over- and underrated, but like with politics it's always more popular to point to an obvious cause of a problem, and then the nuance or even actual truth does not give people the mental security that they crave for - yet never find.
The players, not even Bruno (as I often seem to think myself), are not overrated or bad, ETH (or Rangnick, Ole, Mou, LVG, Moyes) is not a complete imbecil, nor are INEOS or the Glazers. I hope, if anything, these past 11+ years showed that there is not a clear central cause to this all... at all. Players done some weird (and bad) shit on and off the pitch, but none of them have been talentless. ETH can be a great manager as he has shown before and even during multiple parts of his tenure here. Glazers f'ed up a lot, but not everything, nor is INEOS doing right now.
Good to go for a change of direction and hope this means an up in confidence for the players, as many showed that it's only been decreasing, with Dalot being shaky once again and more often once more, De Ligt still working to find his and Zirkzee becoming only worse in his touches (even at NL). The shake-up boost could provide the confidence the players need, and the faith in their management to drag that out for more than 4-5 games.
But chances are the situation won't change for another 2-3 seasons as well, as there's more than just a manager behind and around the wheel.
As always, you cannot proof if things wouldn't start clicking and rolling from the next game onward, but based on the recent patterns, and with the past seasons in mind, this conclusion is at least not illogical. Based on the earlier statements, perhaps it made more sense to see out more return of injuries and new players adapting to the club and league and such, but sometimes it is better to change your mind, to realize that your previous plan had a shorter expiry date than you calculated.
But it does show how easy it is for people to call managers and players and clubs over- and underrated, but like with politics it's always more popular to point to an obvious cause of a problem, and then the nuance or even actual truth does not give people the mental security that they crave for - yet never find.
The players, not even Bruno (as I often seem to think myself), are not overrated or bad, ETH (or Rangnick, Ole, Mou, LVG, Moyes) is not a complete imbecil, nor are INEOS or the Glazers. I hope, if anything, these past 11+ years showed that there is not a clear central cause to this all... at all. Players done some weird (and bad) shit on and off the pitch, but none of them have been talentless. ETH can be a great manager as he has shown before and even during multiple parts of his tenure here. Glazers f'ed up a lot, but not everything, nor is INEOS doing right now.
Good to go for a change of direction and hope this means an up in confidence for the players, as many showed that it's only been decreasing, with Dalot being shaky once again and more often once more, De Ligt still working to find his and Zirkzee becoming only worse in his touches (even at NL). The shake-up boost could provide the confidence the players need, and the faith in their management to drag that out for more than 4-5 games.
But chances are the situation won't change for another 2-3 seasons as well, as there's more than just a manager behind and around the wheel.
Hallelujah, should have happened a year ago but finally the easy decision has been made.
Thanks for the memories Erik and that FA Cup win 
All of the best for your future endeavours.
All of the best for your future endeavours.
Obviously the right decision but it’s hard to be pleased. It’s the first time of all the recent managers I haven’t felt hopeful for the next one in charge.
Club is in absolute disarray, from back office to the playing staff just feels an absolute mess.
Club is in absolute disarray, from back office to the playing staff just feels an absolute mess.
Good talents, nothing more than that. Atleast not yet. They have to show a lot more to be considered special talents. As United fans, we have this habit of overrating our academy players by quite a lot.
Take someone like Savio(not even going as far as Yamal) who is the same age as Garnacho, he's already is a way better dribbler, makes smarter decisions on the pitch and looks to pass from time to time.
Same with Mainoo. Very composed player with good dribbling on him who can do the basics right but there's a lot more that he needs to show. You rarely see Mainoo play any line breaking through balls or long range passes.
I know this is not the thread for this but I hope we as fans don't over hype them and then arrogance creeps into their play because they think they are better than what they are.
Bittersweet day really.
No hate for ETH but he had to go,it wasn't working,but I have more respect for ETH than this bunch of lazy so called professional footballers we have wearing the shirt.Just don't know who next would want to go up against this squad.I wish them all the best.
No hate for ETH but he had to go,it wasn't working,but I have more respect for ETH than this bunch of lazy so called professional footballers we have wearing the shirt.Just don't know who next would want to go up against this squad.I wish them all the best.
Indeed, that is my hope as well. That with this new hierarchy, including a sporting director, can mean that we look for/find managers that fit the system/player profiles we already have in place so we don't require a complete overhaul of players as well with each coaching change.
Yup. This is correct. Look at Emery at Arsenal. Right manager, wrong time. It can happen.
ETH was a massive contradiction.
Tries to buy a whole Ajax team then says he's not here to play like Ajax.
Goes on about standards but lets players woefully out of form play regardless. Then fringe players in good form get dropped
Brings in players like Amrobat, doesnt play them most of the time here, then supposedly wanted to keep him
Cherry on the cake is playing a right back at number 10, when you have better options available
The wrong decision.
We'll be back here again in a couple of years. Some players have seen off six managers now.
We're the new Watford.
We'll be back here again in a couple of years. Some players have seen off six managers now.
We're the new Watford.
Great news to me, changing the title. Thought INEOS must seriously look to do that if only so we can get away from the below:
It's okay to sack underperforming managers (oops, Head Coaches). There's nothing sacred about the role. It's just another employee with a function at the club. Underperform and get fired. Simple.
I'm 90% sure we'll find ourselves in a similar spot with the next manager. At some point, we are going to have to commit like we're married and hoping to survive a lull. No realistic replacement is turning this around in 2 seasons, even Pep would do well to do that.
I really don't understand how you can say Total Football and then imply Tika Taka has little to do with it. Both rely on having a team play as a unit with interchangeable roles and using passing and positional play to break down an opponent. Where they greatly differ though and where you can see the evolution of it from total football is that it relies even less on individual players to make the difference and ball possession is maintained by constant fast passing. But the general concept of interchangeability, high possession and pressing is very similar. Total Football was a revolution that opened the door for Tika taka. I'm fine if you want to say Cruyff is less critical then than the actual introduction of TF. Which obviously he took and enhanced as well.
It's not really wrong time. ETH messed up the same way Emery up messed and these things happens, if he had operated similarly at a different time he would have failed similarly. To me it's an important distinction because we shouldn't just brush it off as these managers being victims of circumstances when they are the main perpetrators.
The key for him is to learn from it and build a successful career partially based on his experience.
- Status