Ten Hag sacked | Ruud appointed Interim Manager

[Mubs]

The wrong decision.

We'll be back here again in a couple of years. Some players have seen off six managers now.

We're the new Watford.

 

[marcus agrippa]

The club mention about a new 'Head Coach' being appointed, after referring to him as First Team Manager, so the job title will be changed. Only a slight change but telling.

Great news to me, changing the title. Thought INEOS must seriously look to do that if only so we can get away from the below:

We’ve been here before. We’re going in circles.

Excellent. Looking forward to seeing who we sack next.
This club is a joke.

Same old story really. Now they will spend another 200 million on players and back a manager and sack him after 2 years. And then again... this club...

It's okay to sack underperforming managers (oops, Head Coaches). There's nothing sacred about the role. It's just another employee with a function at the club. Underperform and get fired. Simple.

 

[Yorkeontop]

I'm 90% sure we'll find ourselves in a similar spot with the next manager. At some point, we are going to have to commit like we're married and hoping to survive a lull. No realistic replacement is turning this around in 2 seasons, even Pep would do well to do that.

 

[Redplane]

No, it's not about being literal. Tiki Taka and Total Football are fairly different. One relies heavily on dominating transition and battering the opposition in transition(both ways) but with a massive emphasis on technique while the other relies heavily on being patient and in the belief that your superior technicity will provoke mistakes during the recycling phase.

Cruyff has nothing to do with Tiki Taka, that part is Aragones, Del Bosque and a few other spanish coaches. Guardiola mixed that with the work of two other coaches that he admired which are Lillo and Bielsa, the latter being actually closer to Cruyff since he also loves Total Football, pressing and counter pressing. The influence of Cruyff at Barcelona today or in the 2000s wasn't really tactical but more in the idea that La Masia needs to produce technically superior players, the same way Ajax does.

In fact if you want to link a previous manager to Tiki Taka it would be LVG but he failed to introduce his possession oriented ideas and from memory Cruyff didn't like that aspect of LVG's philosophy.

I really don't understand how you can say Total Football and then imply Tika Taka has little to do with it. Both rely on having a team play as a unit with interchangeable roles and using passing and positional play to break down an opponent. Where they greatly differ though and where you can see the evolution of it from total football is that it relies even less on individual players to make the difference and ball possession is maintained by constant fast passing. But the general concept of interchangeability, high possession and pressing is very similar. Total Football was a revolution that opened the door for Tika taka. I'm fine if you want to say Cruyff is less critical then than the actual introduction of TF. Which obviously he took and enhanced as well.

 

[JPRouve]

Yup. This is correct. Look at Emery at Arsenal. Right manager, wrong time. It can happen.

It's not really wrong time. ETH messed up the same way Emery up messed and these things happens, if he had operated similarly at a different time he would have failed similarly. To me it's an important distinction because we shouldn't just brush it off as these managers being victims of circumstances when they are the main perpetrators.

The key for him is to learn from it and build a successful career partially based on his experience.

 

[Ekeke]

I'm 90% sure we'll find ourselves in a similar spot with the next manager. At some point, we are going to have to commit like we're married and hoping to survive a lull.

Last season wasnt a lull?

Come off it, hes had more than enough time to turn it around. He was lucky to get a 2nd chance with the start of this seasoin

 

[crossy1686]

Out of all the sackings we've had once fergie, he's the one I feel most for. He's a good manager, maybe even great but he had to go. Both things can be true.

All the available evidence suggests he really isn’t

 

[tjb]

Measured isn't the word I'd use for their tenure so far. At least they've done it at last though, even it was too late, and hopefully there's something behind the madness of keeping this manager on past the Liverpool and Spurs results this season. Hopefully.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt based on their executive and player recruitment. I think the media has had a big hand to play in trying to make them look worse than the reality. I don't think there was anything wrong in shopping around for a manager whilst he was still in the job at the end of the season. Other clubs have done it, and even had replacements sitting in the stands, but with United, we are always held to an unmeasurable moral standard. Van Nistelrooy was also sold as a big appointment, we made a note to replacing his coaching team. We also didn't extend his contract. Their decision seemed to be to buy time to get people in place, whilst also getting the fans onboard with the new regime. I don't think that they planned for him to fail, but in their minds, in was a no-lose situation. If ETH ended up succeeding, they would look like geniuses and if he ended up failing, then fans would not be unhappy at his sacking.

At this moment, it feels like they took too long to fire him this season. However, given time, I think that we'll come to realize that there's very little difference between early October and late October. If they had done this earlier, there's a good chance that media members would have still been talking about us not giving him time to start the season, blaming individual players and calling INEOS incompetent for not seeing out their plan to keep him or even being opportunistic. However, with the additional 2 or 3 weeks that they added to his tenure, there is no one in doubt that this was the only move that we should make. The only grievance is from a few fans unhappy that we didn't do it sooner ( me included). If you're INEOS, wanting time, support and space to get things right, optically this may have been the best solution. They essentially gave Ten Hag enough rope to prove he's not the man for the job, with no excuses or media sympathy to mask the reality that this was a poor manager. We've sacked managers before, but its no surprise that this sacking has less media discussion on our players than any we've had in the past, no one feels sorry for him.

 

[Yorkeontop]

Last season wasnt a lull?

Come off it, hes had more than enough time to turn it around. He was lucky to get a 2nd chance with the start of this seasoin

We haven't committed enough, I needed to see more. 7 points off fourth, wins against Palace and West Ham bring in 6. Such are the margins.

 

[Zumbi]

That was a joke.

Before you say anything else (who knows these days) - what I meant was this:

Our biggest problem after Fergie retired has been the decision makers above the so-called manager (not the so-called manager himself). That is my opinion.

So now, when it is announced that ETH is finally sacked (well deserved), I ask people not to focus too much on him (who is now history - and rightfully, thankfully so), but rather on the people above him (who are, and have always been, ever since Fergie retired, the REAL problem).

I hope that makes it clearer.

Except it’s impossible to separate the managerial appointments from the decision makers above the manager, because it’s them that’s made a series of poor managerial appointments, among many other poor decisions. It’s one of their most notable failings, along with our disastrous transfer dealings.

 

[Werd.]

Jeez, are people really criticising his sacking?

He was an average manager well out of his depth who consistently hit new lows. What more evidence do you want?

 

[Redplane]

Jeez, are people really criticising his sacking?

He was an average manager well out of his depth who consistently hit new lows. What more evidence do you want?

I think it's more the fact that we still don't seem to have a proper plan in place after it..it's hard to get optimistic when every sacking since SAF hardly led to a ton of reasons to be optimistic.

 

[Frosty]

Athletic are reporting that we are willing to pay the 10m release fee for Amorim.

Edit - Ornstein is reporting this, alongside Adam Crafton.

 

[Werd.]

I think it's more the fact that we still don't seem to have a proper plan in place after it..it's hard to get optimistic when every sacking since SAF hardly led to a ton of reasons to be optimistic.

Well mate, say hello to our new overlord Amorim.

 

[ManRed]

Great news, should have been sacked in the summer. I hope the club reflects on the blunder of keeping him on and listening to fans.

 

[Judas]

People outraged that a poorly performing manager got sacked is so bizarre. This is football and this is what happens. He deserved to go and deserved to go ages ago.

 

[Redplane]

Well mate, say hello to our new overlord Amorim.

Yeah just saw that..not sure whether to be impressed with the speed if true or be concerned we re again again going with a young up and comer more than an established household name.

 

[crossy1686]

Yup. This is correct. Look at Emery at Arsenal. Right manager, wrong time. It can happen.

Sometimes the club isn’t the right fit. Ten Hag might be a good manager but he doesn’t have the experience at this level to succeed. Same for Emery, he always seems to do well at clubs who want to be successful, not clubs that demand to be successful.

 

[crossy1686]

The wrong decision.

We'll be back here again in a couple of years. Some players have seen off six managers now.

We're the new Watford.

Who gives a shit?

 

[leeroyTX]

Ultimately, for me, I'd much rather have United play scintillating football that entertains me and compete for the title regularly than to win a League Cup title and an FA Cup while playing absolute shit, inconsistent football that bores and annoys me.

This is really it, isn't it. Arteta hasn't won s*** for hardware, yet...but is anyone going to say ten Hag is a better coach and more successful? Not in this or any other universe. The product on the field is crap and has been for far too long. There's been no signs of improvement and, to be fair, they've gotten objectively worse. No one is afraid to play the mighty Manchester United any more. This should've been dealt with in the summer before another wasted transfer window.

 

[Jazz]

Yeah just saw that..not sure whether to be impressed with the speed if true or be concerned we re again again going with a young up and comer more than an established household name.

I think we're just trying everyone until one eventually works.... this looks like an impossible job.

 

[RedRocket9908]

If we get Amorim we'll probably go for Gyokeres in January to help with our goal shortage

 

[Reapersoul20]

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/MVMy7uQ1SQ

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

Thomas Frank seems to be the favourite right now, and as a very pragmatic and flexible coach, I think he will do okay. He will drill the fundamentals into the players and I think we'd become much harder to beat, much tighter defensively, and across the board more organised. I don't think I've seen anything from Frank that suggests that he'd be a revolutionary appointment. I don't see a tactical visionary. But I do see someone that will create a compact, hard working side that plays to it's strengths, instead of trying to emulate what people expect of him. That might be exactly what United need right now. He has finished 13th, 9th and 16th with Brentford in the PL, albeit the last one without his top scorer who was banned for the second half of the season. It doesn't look spectacular, but it's been done on very limited resources, with a very limited playing squad.

I'm getting David Moyes vibes when you describe him like that

 

[CraftySoAndSo]

The wrong decision.

We'll be back here again in a couple of years. Some players have seen off six managers now.

We're the new Watford.

So the solution is to stick with a manager performing absolutely horrendously?

Sound logic.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The wrong decision.

We'll be back here again in a couple of years. Some players have seen off six managers now.

We're the new Watford.

I'm 90% sure we'll find ourselves in a similar spot with the next manager. At some point, we are going to have to commit like we're married and hoping to survive a lull. No realistic replacement is turning this around in 2 seasons, even Pep would do well to do that.

Please repeat after me.

All.
Clubs.
Sack.
Underperforming.
Managers.

 

[Ekeke]

We haven't committed enough, I needed to see more. 7 points off fourth, wins against Palace and West Ham bring in 6. Such are the margins.

We lost. He was 14th. He doesnt get to put us in the relegation places before he goes

 

[Big Ben Foster]

So the solution is to stick with a manager performing absolutely horrendously?

Sound logic.

Calling us the new Watford is extreme hyperbole, considering we've sacked fewer managers since 2013 than almost every other club in the top European leagues

 

[marcus agrippa]

Yeah just saw that..not sure whether to be impressed with the speed if true or be concerned we re again again going with a young up and comer more than an established household name.

ETH was 51 when we appointed him. Amorim is 39(!!!) (not factorial).

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I'm 90% sure we'll find ourselves in a similar spot with the next manager. At some point, we are going to have to commit like we're married and hoping to survive a lull. No realistic replacement is turning this around in 2 seasons, even Pep would do well to do that.

Good god the delusion.

 

[DSG]

Out of all the sackings we've had once fergie, he's the one I feel most for. He's a good manager, maybe even great but he had to go. Both things can be true.

This has got to be trolling. He’s literally bottom of the list of every metric post Fergie

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Pains me to see Erik go. Highly coveted coach when he was hired and got an unanimous approval. However, this had to be done. Probably long overdue which has disrupted the new season too.

While a highly disenchanting league performance, helped us add 2 more trophies to the collection. Additionally, brought special talents in Garnacho and Mainoo to the fore.

Had the board parted ways at the end of the Cup win, he would have gone on a high. Disillusioned and baffled by the delayed decision.

Anyways, all the best 10 Hag and wish him a successful managerial stint elsewhere. Eh.

Said it better than I did, mate.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Calling us the new Watford is extreme hyperbole, considering we've sacked fewer managers since 2013 than almost every other club in the top European leagues

At this point I just assume many that are saying this basically pay 0 attention to football outside of what goes on at Old Trafford and maybe an occassional super sunday game.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Out of all the sackings we've had once fergie, he's the one I feel most for. He's a good manager, maybe even great but he had to go. Both things can be true.

He's the one I feel the fecking least for. Not a shred of likeability or real accountability, the most supported manager post SAF we've had, and delivered historically bad results and performances for over a calendar year.

But I guess this strange sentiment is partly why that stupid poll changed so much post FA cup win

 

[Redplane]

ETH was 51 when we appointed him. Amorim is 39(!!!) (not factorial).

It's a sad day when the manager we re hiring now is younger than me. I guess it was bound to happen at some pt.

 

[Globule]

The wrong decision.

We'll be back here again in a couple of years. Some players have seen off six managers now.

We're the new Watford.

What sort of signs have you seen that suggest it was the wrong decision?

Sure, it's not just him. There are players that need to be shown the door too. But ETH has shown nothing to suggest he's worth persevering with.

 

[appleman]

Miles from it.

I dont see a big club like Bayern going for him but if they do, he'll be sacked in months because they have standards and wont fall for his bullshit like we did.

Bayern is doing fine but I wouldn't feel too scared about that match being better, especially as performing in Bundesliga to Bayern-standards is easier than the BPL and whatever the current standards are or are supposed to be. But with any manager the current situation (and times in general) are very important. Slot really isn't a better manager (yet) than ETH even though it is very clear that it seems to work and match pretty well so far. The squad fits him, the CL and the BPL, and players like Salah (and Gravenberch for other reasons) probably saw this change at the right time.

While clearly Slot is now doing better than ETH in discernible results, in the Eredivisie ETH showed higher peaks. It cannot be ignored that Slot seems a much more composed and (actually) stoic (or calvinist?) personality than ETH is, which probably helps a lot with adapting to a new situation and not succumbing to stress like ETH seems more prone to. That might be an excellent argument for the statement that this makes Slot (much?) better, but until/unless we see ETH at another big club, it's harder to compare than it looks.

But their track records did show that so far the (BPL) resume of Slot shows better stuff than ETH, but keep in mind that the first half of the first season of ETH was promising to the level that the shaky second half was still enough to see most people around here "that's my manager"ing. Can't imagine players hating Slot, as he seems a good fit for most types of people, but football players (as many of us not-football players, and even non-masculine-environment-pressured) and their egos can always go against anyone for any dorky reason.

I have no idea how to judge ETH's mental health, but I would not be surprised to see him do an Emery somewhere, either. At least I hope to find out whether I'm anything close to the truth, but this United era seemed so unlike ETH that I really think some management will want to give it a shot now that he's probably cheaper.

And who knows, Mou, Poch and such have all fallen out of grace or their times to peak. Perhaps the ETH-way was not to last for much longer than 2015-2022.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

It's a sad day when the manager we re hiring now is younger than me. I guess it was bound to happen at some pt.

It happens to all of us mate. Soon we’ll have managers younger than me. Give it ten years as I’m still a spring chicken relatively.

 

[Yorkeontop]

Please repeat after me.

All.
Clubs.
Sack.
Underperforming.
Managers.

I'm still getting the hang of this, bear with me. It just looks like rinse and repeat for now.

We lost. He was 14th. He doesnt get to put us in the relegation places before he goes

He was two results away from keeping his job, that's my perspective.

Good god the delusion.

Time will tell.

 

[klayton88]

The wrong decision.

We'll be back here again in a couple of years. Some players have seen off six managers now.

We're the new Watford.

I definitely agree there are a couple of common factors in that dressing room that have outlived five? managers? I won't name drop though because the fan club will be out in force to defend.