Steven Defour

Maestro Minded said:
That's not really the point, Xavi plays in a team where most his team mates scores. Sure, it might have to do with la liga being a rich mans SPL...
The point though is that Anderson, Gibson, Park, Carrick, Scholes and Giggs have scored 2 goals in 27 matches so far this season in PL (adding all matches and goals).

We need a creative midfielder that knows how to score.
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That's why I mentioned the assist bit. I know very well that Xavi is quite a useful player to have.

Paul Scholes scored 6 goals in 06/07 and 9 goals in 04/05. The last 5 seasons he's the only one to have scored more than five goals from midfield bar Ronaldo.
I'm sure Nani will achieve more than 5 as well this season.

It hasn't been our biggest problem really. With our shaky defense we still haven't lost a game this season. Adding stability from the midfield to help out would make the team much better, or at least it should, without playing less attacking football then we are now.
 
Maestro Minded said:
That's not really the point, Xavi plays in a team where most his team mates scores. Sure, it might have to do with la liga being a rich mans SPL...
The point though is that Anderson, Gibson, Park, Carrick, Scholes and Giggs have scored a total of 2 goals in 27 match opportunities so far this season in PL (adding all matches and goals).
We can not rely in Hernandez, Berba and Nani (and eventually Rooney) doing all the work
We need a creative midfielder that knows how to score.
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Last season we had 47 goals from midfield in all competitions. Chelsea had 56, including the players who left. If you take away Ballack and Joe Cole they had 48 goals.

One more goal less than one of the best midfields around - where's the problem?
 
Snow said:
That's why I mentioned the assist bit. I know very well that Xavi is quite a useful player to have.

Paul Scholes scored 6 goals in 06/07 and 9 goals in 04/05. The last 5 seasons he's the only one to have scored more than five goals from midfield bar Ronaldo.
I'm sure Nani will achieve more than 5 as well this season.

It hasn't been our biggest problem really. With our shaky defense we still haven't lost a game this season. Adding stability from the midfield to help out would make the team much better, or at least it should, without playing less attacking football then we are now.
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But now Ronaldo isnt here, so there's a 30+ goals gap that need to be filled. We can't expect the ST's to fill that gap and still handle their own quota.
And Scholes isnt getting any younger, you cant talk about him 4-6 years ago...

SCHOLES (in PL)
2009–10 --> 28 matches, 3 goals
2008-09 --> 21 matches, 2 goals
2007-08 --> 24 matches, 1 goal
 
Is this the guy Fergie sent a letter to? What type of player is he similar to?
 
I have not, nor any desire to. I read the bits on this page and it had turned into a debate about our midfields goalscoring so I gathered it had already gone off topic.
 
Brwned said:
Last season we had 47 goals from midfield in all competitions. Chelsea had 56, including the players who left. If you take away Ballack and Joe Cole they had 48 goals.

One more goal less than one of the best midfields around - where's the problem?
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Why should you take away Ballack and Cole? I hope your argument is not "because they dont play there any more"
 
Solius said:
I have not, nor any desire to. I read the bits on this page and it had turned into a debate about our midfields goalscoring so I gathered it had already gone off topic.
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OK.

To summirise the 5 pages;

Yes he was the lad SAF wrote the letter to when he injured his ankle.
He's been likened to Scholes in the way he plays.
 
Maestro Minded said:
Why should you take away Ballack and Cole? I hope your argument is not "because they dont play there any more"
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Alright, let's not. That's still only 15% less goals than one of the most productive midfields around, if not the most. Clearly if we can get 47 goals we're not doing that badly for goals, right?

From the looks of it we're lacking a bit of direction, calmness and stability in midfield a fair bit more than goals.
 
Maestro Minded said:
But now Ronaldo isnt here, so there's a 30+ goals gap that need to be filled. We can't expect the ST's to fill that gap and still handle their own quota.
And Scholes isnt getting any younger, you cant talk about him 4-6 years ago...

SCHOLES (in PL)
2009–10 --> 28 matches, 3 goals
2008-09 --> 21 matches, 2 goals
2007-08 --> 24 matches, 1 goal
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No you're missing the point. I was talking about him 4-6 years ago to refer to how long it's been since any midfielder scored more than 5 goals in one PL season. Giggs and Valencia both scored 5 last season.

When Ronaldo was here tere were only two players the most with 10 goals or more. Berbatov sure as hell has stepped up and I expect Rooney to score some as well. Nani's well on his way as has Hernandez. The amount of goals we score hasn't changed much.
Last season, where we didn't have Ronaldo, we scored 86 goals. Second only the season 9 years ago when we scored 87.

I don't see the problem as of yet.
 
gambit28 said:
Except he's not like Scholes. The player we have, he's the most like is probably Fletcher.
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I'm just going on what I've read on here. Everyone seems to be contradicting each other on what type of player he is. Some say defensive, some say attacking, some say box-to-box.

Why you on this thread anyway? I though Hamsik was your man?
 
Blair said:
I'm just going on what I've read on here. Everyone seems to be contradicting each other on what type of player he is. Some say defensive, some say attacking, some say box-to-box.

Why you on this thread anyway? I though Hamsik was your man?
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Seem him a few times and he's just a midfielder, both defensive and attacking can't really put him in a category. The only similarity I've seen with the lad is to Robson, in the way he runs, passes and shoots, just nowhere near to his level yet. Hamsik affair is over. He signed his new contract with Napoli on my birthday of all days. The bucktoothed freaky haired bastard was teasing me all that time.
 
gambit28 said:
Seem him a few times and he's just a midfielder, both defensive and attacking can't really put him in a category. The only similarity I've seen with the lad is to Robson, in the way he runs, passes and shoots, just nowhere near to his level yet. Hamsik affair is over. He signed his new contract with Napoli on my birthday of all days. The bucktoothed freaky haired bastard was teasing me all that time.
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:lol:

I still think he'll end up at a big club soon, albeit for a good few quid!
 
Blair said:
:lol:

I still think he'll end up at a big club soon, albeit for a good few quid!
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Reckon it will be Inter. He's not had any great performances this season ether.
 
Anyway, now that whore showed me his true colours I'm stalking a new, potentialy greater love. Ninis. Caught up on some of his games and the lad blows me away.
 
Blair said:
3 goals in 6 games in the league, not too shabby for a midfielder.

Surely Inter would only want him if Sneijder left?
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He'd be great in the midfield with Sneijder. He's playing in a much more advanced role this season as he did at the latter half of the previous. He's scored some goals but not been as influentual in the games.
 
Ekeke said:
Except he's not like Fletcher. The player we have, he's the most like is probably Carrick.
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Nah, not as specialised as that, he can do the long passes to the forwards, but he has a quick one touch passing game as well as running with the ball, he tends to chase the game more like fletcher as well when defending.
 
dev1l said:
He s greek....
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He wishes, he's Albanian. The lad can run, pass, dribble, trick and shoot. I'm very impressed by him. Also whats being Greek got to do with the price of fish. They've done more in world football than the Welsh or Scottish yet you'd never even consider nationality if they developed a good player.
 
gambit28 said:
Nah, not as specialised as that, he can do the long passes to the forwards, but he has a quick one touch passing game as well as running with the ball, he tends to chase the game more like fletcher as well when defending.
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Specialised? Carrick does everything. Just some things in more moderation than others, like goalscoring and advanced runs. Same with Defour. He still does it.

Unlike Fletcher, Defour doesnt get into the box to score headers, or make advanced runs crossing in for his team mates, nor is his workrate and closing down anywhere close to Fletchers. He doesnt have his strength, height, or tackling ability. Basically all the things that make Fletcher, Fletcher.

He plays from deep and defends positionally although not as good as Carrick when he's playing well, gets forward now and again and might get you a goal with a clean strike. He doesnt have Carrick's expansive passing game with sidefooted passes over long distances, but he's a very good passer all the same. He just has a different style about it, using different techniques but to the same goal. He passes it around well like Carrick.

And like Carrick he cannot rely on physicality to win the ball. Else he can be outmuscled.
 
Ekeke said:
Specialised? Carrick does everything. Just some things in more moderation than others, like goalscoring and advanced runs. Same with Defour. He still does it.

Unlike Fletcher, Defour doesnt get into the box to score headers, or make advanced runs crossing in for his team mates, nor is his workrate and closing down anywhere close to Fletchers. He doesnt have his strength, height, or tackling ability. Basically all the things that make Fletcher, Fletcher.

He plays from deep and defends positionally although not as good as Carrick when he's playing well, gets forward now and again and might get you a goal with a clean strike. He doesnt have Carrick's expansive passing game with sidefooted passes over long distances, but he's a very good passer all the same. He just has a different style about it, using different techniques but to the same goal. He passes it around well like Carrick.

And like Carrick he cannot rely on physicality to win the ball. Else he can be outmuscled.
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The games I've seen him play he was charging all over the show and closing players downs quickly. I have noticed he tends to track back and ends up being stuck in the more defensve role recently where he then ends up playing the majority of the game from deep, but he can get forward. I will defer to your judgement though as you've more then likely seen him play a lot more than me.
 
Ekeke said:
Specialised? Carrick does everything. Just some things in more moderation than others, like goalscoring and advanced runs. Same with Defour. He still does it.

Unlike Fletcher, Defour doesnt get into the box to score headers, or make advanced runs crossing in for his team mates, nor is his workrate and closing down anywhere close to Fletchers. He doesnt have his strength, height, or tackling ability. Basically all the things that make Fletcher, Fletcher.

He plays from deep and defends positionally although not as good as Carrick when he's playing well, gets forward now and again and might get you a goal with a clean strike. He doesnt have Carrick's expansive passing game with sidefooted passes over long distances, but he's a very good passer all the same. He just has a different style about it, using different techniques but to the same goal. He passes it around well like Carrick.

And like Carrick he cannot rely on physicality to win the ball. Else he can be outmuscled.
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Is he really needed then?? Doesn't sound like much of an improvement nor does he bring anything different..
 
Ekeke said:
Specialised? Carrick does everything. Just some things in more moderation than others, like goalscoring and advanced runs. Same with Defour. He still does it.

Unlike Fletcher, Defour doesnt get into the box to score headers, or make advanced runs crossing in for his team mates, nor is his workrate and closing down anywhere close to Fletchers. He doesnt have his strength, height, or tackling ability. Basically all the things that make Fletcher, Fletcher.

He plays from deep and defends positionally although not as good as Carrick when he's playing well, gets forward now and again and might get you a goal with a clean strike. He doesnt have Carrick's expansive passing game with sidefooted passes over long distances, but he's a very good passer all the same. He just has a different style about it, using different techniques but to the same goal. He passes it around well like Carrick.

And like Carrick he cannot rely on physicality to win the ball. Else he can be outmuscled.
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So you don't really rate him then?
 
gambit28 said:
He wishes, he's Albanian. The lad can run, pass, dribble, trick and shoot. I'm very impressed by him. Also whats being Greek got to do with the price of fish. They've done more in world football than the Welsh or Scottish yet you'd never even consider nationality if they developed a good player.
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Nins is talented but isn't he more of a winger/free role behind the striker type of player? I can't imagine him in a 2 man midfield.
 
Devil may care said:
Nins is talented but isn't he more of a winger/free role behind the striker type of player? I can't imagine him in a 2 man midfield.
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He can also do attacking midfielder. Play him with an enforcer and he could easily play in a 2 man midfield.
 
Blair said:
So you don't really rate him then?
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He's good he's just not Darren Fletcher. Nor Paul Scholes, nor even Carrick though thats who he's closer to.

He plays deep with good passing and can get forward to have a good effort on goal. But despite playing deep, dont expect him to be a great ball winner. Especially not in the premier league. I've seen him outmuscled in Belgium let alone against some of the midfields here.

He'd be a better stand-in for Scholes than any of our other players. But that doesnt mean he'll become good enough to replace Scholes. On that we'd have to wait and see
 
Ekeke said:
Specialised? Carrick does everything. Just some things in more moderation than others, like goalscoring and advanced runs. Same with Defour. He still does it.

Unlike Fletcher, Defour doesnt get into the box to score headers, or make advanced runs crossing in for his team mates, nor is his workrate and closing down anywhere close to Fletchers. He doesnt have his strength, height, or tackling ability. Basically all the things that make Fletcher, Fletcher.

He plays from deep and defends positionally although not as good as Carrick when he's playing well, gets forward now and again and might get you a goal with a clean strike. He doesnt have Carrick's expansive passing game with sidefooted passes over long distances, but he's a very good passer all the same. He just has a different style about it, using different techniques but to the same goal. He passes it around well like Carrick.

And like Carrick he cannot rely on physicality to win the ball. Else he can be outmuscled.
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Fletcher gets into the box and scores headers? Ehmm..

How many games have you actually seen him in? I find it hard for someone going out of their way to watch Belgian football or the Belgian national team if they are not Belgian. Are you Belgian?:S
 
Snow said:
Fletcher gets into the box and scores headers? Ehmm..

How many games have you actually seen him in? I find it hard for someone going out of their way to watch Belgian football or the Belgian national team if they are not Belgian. Are you Belgian?:S
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So you have never seen Fletcher score a header? Erm, ok then.
 
Snow said:
Never is not the word. He's been here what, 7 years? It's not a common thing he does and I wouldn't count it as his ability.
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But he has done it. I agree that he doesn't do it as often as he should.

As for him being here 7 years or so. You have to rememebr for the first 4 years, he was a bit shit and was played out of position a lot. He's an important 1st team player now and his attacking play has improved ten fold
 
Talking Vulture said:
But he has done it. I agree that he doesn't do it as often as he should.

As for him being here 7 years or so. You have to rememebr for the first 4 years, he was a bit shit and was played out of position a lot. He's an important 1st team player now and his attacking play has improved ten fold
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He's still a very little threat in attack. His 1-2 play isn't very good and his passing isn't very good. He doesn't have many assists or goals and he doesn't break up the opposition. His crossing from the right is the only really effective part of his attacking abilities. I've never seen a defense having problem containing him. He just hasn't got the ability to do so and he's too smart to try.

He knows his limit. If he didn't he'd look very much like Diaby, perhaps succeeding in dribbling past a player and open up a defense a bit but he'd lose the ball way too often. Thankfully his head is screwed the right way on which makes him the player he is.
 
Its unfair to compare players to Scholes or label them as his heir apparent. Scholes is once in a generation type of player.

You will not see another for a while. Whoever we buy will have to showcase their own skills but to find someone with Scholes range of passing, shooting, goal scoring and bite is akin to finging a needle in a haystack.
 
Commadus said:
Its unfair to compare players to Scholes or label them as his heir apparent. Scholes is once in a generation type of player.

You will not see another for a while. Whoever we buy will have to showcase their own skills but to find someone with Scholes range of passing, shooting, goal scoring and bite is akin to finging a needle in a haystack.
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This. The only players comparable to him are Xavi and Pirlo, and even they have their distinct differences.

We can't look to replace Scholes, because we're unlikely to come across anyone on his level, we more so have to buy players to compensate for the fact that he won't be here.
 
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