It (and the books) is brilliant
Television Star Wars -The Acolyte
- Thread starter Hamnat
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I don't know how you can write for a franchise that's so unbelievably dense.
How creative can you really be?
Is there any real creative freedom for new writers and directors who don't know the whole extended universe (games, books, films, TV shows, breakfast cereals etc) ?
The goodies and baddies are already well established and you dare sidestep that or introduce something /someone new, because the likelihood is the fanbase would lose its spaceballs.
The franchise is so big that the universe is getting incredibly smaller with each passing new film, game, book, TV show.
And, outside of Andor a anomaly, the products haven't shown or said anything remotely interesting or creative since the original 3.
Since Empire (Goat) we've had nothing but mildly OK to 'meh' to absolute dogshit. And that was before Disney brought it yet they seem to be following the same path.
How creative can you really be?
Is there any real creative freedom for new writers and directors who don't know the whole extended universe (games, books, films, TV shows, breakfast cereals etc) ?
The goodies and baddies are already well established and you dare sidestep that or introduce something /someone new, because the likelihood is the fanbase would lose its spaceballs.
The franchise is so big that the universe is getting incredibly smaller with each passing new film, game, book, TV show.
And, outside of Andor a anomaly, the products haven't shown or said anything remotely interesting or creative since the original 3.
Since Empire (Goat) we've had nothing but mildly OK to 'meh' to absolute dogshit. And that was before Disney brought it yet they seem to be following the same path.
It's funny how even in the acolyte they did hire one decent female actor, actually the only person in the show who looked like she could pull off portraying a Jedi, even appears in all the marketing, yet she's killed off in the opening scene.
I just hope hope Andor S2 gets the views it deserves and Disney realise they need to continue a branch of actual good Star Wars, hiring talented people for the job. Parents of Disney+ watchers need something to enjoy too. For the love of all that is holy let Tony Gilroy do Revan, please. Thrawn would have been my first choice, but I think they've already destroyed that character.
I just hope hope Andor S2 gets the views it deserves and Disney realise they need to continue a branch of actual good Star Wars, hiring talented people for the job. Parents of Disney+ watchers need something to enjoy too. For the love of all that is holy let Tony Gilroy do Revan, please. Thrawn would have been my first choice, but I think they've already destroyed that character.
One of the best Sci Fi shows ever.
People laughed 10 years ago, when all fanfic amateur productions were shot in a local forest.
Now it's just called Star Wars official product.
Now it's just called Star Wars official product.
Well how creative do they need to be?
Are they looking to make a good movie/tv show based on the Star Wars existing lore or do they want to make their own thing and just label it Star Wars?
More often than not these days it seems to be more of the latter. George RR Martin spoke about this and maybe he has a point.
Before the Mandalorian Favreau didn't really have an impressive resume to me. He also was the executive producer on Boba Fett and Ashoka so not sure he really works for your argument.
Also, it's tough to predict how someone will do with a property like SW so I wouldn't want to judge Obaid-Chinoy before seeing the movie. I thought Rian Johnson was a fantastic choice since I loved Brick so i had high expectations for him really doing something different for SW that would be great and, we got The Last Jedi. Between him and Abrams, no one can really say it was a "woke agenda" or whatever BS that made those movies bad since you have two straight white men failing there. Diversity and quality do not have to be mutually exclusive, its possible to have both I'd say Obaid-Chinoy has just as much chance for success at this point as whatever "non-DEI" pick you would make. That said, she wouldn't have been my first choice but doubt Disney would ever tap my choices.
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It's absolutely possible to tell interesting stories in the Star Wars universe that feature non-white or non-straight characters. The problem is that Disney seem to not be interested in doing so at all. It's almost as though they think a story which features a non white or non straight main character is good writing in and of itself, which is a rather incredible mistake to be making for a company with a century of storytelling experience. South Park summed this up rather well.
I think at the extremes there are elements of "wokeism" or whatever we're calling it today that are anathema to good storytelling - conflicts aren't interesting if they only arise as the result of some white dude villain's deep seated, emasculating insecurity, for example. But overall, Star Wars should be an ideal setting for all kinds of diverse stories given it's massive scope and variety. It's unfortunate that Disney are seemingly only interested in hiring ideologues instead of people who are actually interested in telling stories.
I think at the extremes there are elements of "wokeism" or whatever we're calling it today that are anathema to good storytelling - conflicts aren't interesting if they only arise as the result of some white dude villain's deep seated, emasculating insecurity, for example. But overall, Star Wars should be an ideal setting for all kinds of diverse stories given it's massive scope and variety. It's unfortunate that Disney are seemingly only interested in hiring ideologues instead of people who are actually interested in telling stories.
Just don't make people's innate characteristics the only defining element of their character. I look at the Expanse again, Chrisjen Avarasala, foul mouthed Indian American leader of Earth, Bobbie Draper, badass black Martian marine, Naomi Nagata, Engineering genius Black Belter, Camina Drummer, maybe the best character in the show, poly-amorous belter firebrand played by an indigenous Canadian actress, intelligent, driven, dedicated, loyal. 4 amazing female characters from diverse backgrounds, and there are many others and did anyone have a problem with this?. They were allowed to be characters first within a story that naturally explored social issues in an engaging way, which is a massive contrast to the panifully one note and on the nose stuff that Disney and other studios are churning out.
Bobbie is of Polynesian heritage.
The Expanse is fecking brilliant.
Just got disney plus for a month for $2.
Had already seen Andor and Mandalorian S1 and S2. Also had already seen Clone Wars, Rebels, and somehow all of Bad Batch. Andor was the obvious highlight, some Clone Wars seasons and Rebels episodes were good, as was S3 of bad batch (the earlier seasons were some of the worst filler ever made).
I don't think there's anything else worth watching...but is there anything worth hate-watching? So bad it's good etc. Ahsoka? Acolyte? Boba Fett? Obi-Wan?
Had already seen Andor and Mandalorian S1 and S2. Also had already seen Clone Wars, Rebels, and somehow all of Bad Batch. Andor was the obvious highlight, some Clone Wars seasons and Rebels episodes were good, as was S3 of bad batch (the earlier seasons were some of the worst filler ever made).
I don't think there's anything else worth watching...but is there anything worth hate-watching? So bad it's good etc. Ahsoka? Acolyte? Boba Fett? Obi-Wan?
This thread being this big despite everyone hating the show and paragraphs like this are part of the reason they’ll carry on churning out crap.
Finally watched the first four episodes.
It clearly has flaws, but I did enjoy some parts of the show. It is not easy to come up with new settings and premises in the SW universe while maintaining consistency with existing canon, so I always like it when someone does take that challenge on. A new planet, a new cast, a new set of protagonists who aren't copy pasted from tropes, and an intriguing conflict - but still connected to familiar elements like Coruscant, the Council, and Neimodians. Also I enjoy diversity of characters as long as they are well written - Trinity, Tommen, a Wookie and an Asian Jedi ensemble has good potential, so does the covenant of witches given their parallels with the Nightsisters from the Clone Wars. The fights were well done, I am watching it on a good TV so I enjoy the 4K graphics of new backdrops, and there's some characters here (Sol, the twins, the covenant head, Yord) who felt multi-faceted. The suspense is being built well, and I'm definitely curious about what actually happened, who the masked Master is, and how these answers tie all the characters together. Also, the fights are cool.
Unfortunately, the Disney-forcing-diversity-for-diversity's-sake habit has complicate things, with characters and certain plot points written to make a point rather than to tell a story. For instance, witches in hiding because 'they won't be accepted' doesn't make sense when the Nightsisters exist and were popular from the Clone Wars. Neither does the way the Jedi would go about spying on and recruiting children because they're the 'bad guys'. Or the typically arrogant and disrespectful way in which the creators react to any criticism by labeling the fanbase bigoted, sexist, and racist.
And there is scope for fair criticism. The dialogue is very poor, and makes the characters feel bland. There are clear flaws and contradictions in the plot - the way the 'Thread' is explained or used, the way the Jedi have not detected them for all these years despite their seemingly superior strength, the inexplicable change of heart for Mae, the way the Jedi just took in a Youngling who was too old, for instance. Some scenes are cheaply written and filmed - the twin's cheesy rhyme, the chanting scene, butterfly torture, or clear gaffes like the fire in space, or Ki Adi Mundi's existence in that time frame, or a fire from a book burning down an entire fortress (which may be explained better later). Perhaps it'll get better later, and perhaps it's due to the poor dialogue that I feel this way, but the casting seems very mediocre - especially for both the child and adult actor for Osha/Mae.
I'd seen the negative talk before I watched the show, and can now see the reasons why the ratings were low - legitimate and otherwise. But I do think it's not as bad as Obi Wan Kenobi or The Book of Boba Fett, and further episodes can actually improve the show if the reveal is convincing enough. It is underwhelming for the budget, and doesn't truly make the best of the premise or the character potential so far.
It clearly has flaws, but I did enjoy some parts of the show. It is not easy to come up with new settings and premises in the SW universe while maintaining consistency with existing canon, so I always like it when someone does take that challenge on. A new planet, a new cast, a new set of protagonists who aren't copy pasted from tropes, and an intriguing conflict - but still connected to familiar elements like Coruscant, the Council, and Neimodians. Also I enjoy diversity of characters as long as they are well written - Trinity, Tommen, a Wookie and an Asian Jedi ensemble has good potential, so does the covenant of witches given their parallels with the Nightsisters from the Clone Wars. The fights were well done, I am watching it on a good TV so I enjoy the 4K graphics of new backdrops, and there's some characters here (Sol, the twins, the covenant head, Yord) who felt multi-faceted. The suspense is being built well, and I'm definitely curious about what actually happened, who the masked Master is, and how these answers tie all the characters together. Also, the fights are cool.
Unfortunately, the Disney-forcing-diversity-for-diversity's-sake habit has complicate things, with characters and certain plot points written to make a point rather than to tell a story. For instance, witches in hiding because 'they won't be accepted' doesn't make sense when the Nightsisters exist and were popular from the Clone Wars. Neither does the way the Jedi would go about spying on and recruiting children because they're the 'bad guys'. Or the typically arrogant and disrespectful way in which the creators react to any criticism by labeling the fanbase bigoted, sexist, and racist.
And there is scope for fair criticism. The dialogue is very poor, and makes the characters feel bland. There are clear flaws and contradictions in the plot - the way the 'Thread' is explained or used, the way the Jedi have not detected them for all these years despite their seemingly superior strength, the inexplicable change of heart for Mae, the way the Jedi just took in a Youngling who was too old, for instance. Some scenes are cheaply written and filmed - the twin's cheesy rhyme, the chanting scene, butterfly torture, or clear gaffes like the fire in space, or Ki Adi Mundi's existence in that time frame, or a fire from a book burning down an entire fortress (which may be explained better later). Perhaps it'll get better later, and perhaps it's due to the poor dialogue that I feel this way, but the casting seems very mediocre - especially for both the child and adult actor for Osha/Mae.
I'd seen the negative talk before I watched the show, and can now see the reasons why the ratings were low - legitimate and otherwise. But I do think it's not as bad as Obi Wan Kenobi or The Book of Boba Fett, and further episodes can actually improve the show if the reveal is convincing enough. It is underwhelming for the budget, and doesn't truly make the best of the premise or the character potential so far.
The only thing redeemable of them shows is the Darth Vader scenes in Kenobi. He still comes across as extremely menacing and it's always great to see Vader on screen.
Other than that, I wouldn't even bother.
You could also fast forward to all the Ray Stevenson and Hayden Christensen scenes in Ahsoka.
I actually think that opening scene was one of the best standalone scenes in the last 20 years. I thought Carrie-Anne Moss was fantastic and the fight choreography really gave me classic wuxia vibes. The show quickly went downhill from there sadly. They really should have given Moss a much larger role and kept that wuxia Western vibe and the show could have been much better.
The new episode is very cool. The show is picking up steam.
My 10 year old actually got annoyed with that ! Seriously, feels like Disney are intentionally trying to destroy their own IP
I thought she was wasted. Moss was a brilliant choice but it just didn’t work for me. Id of preferred Moss to be more like a rogueish Qai Gon or Mace windu, bit of character , seemed like they were going for more wise Obi Wan. I mean this is trinity FFs.
What is it with Hollywood, they want to bring in my diversity and woman into movies but keep making sh*t ones or worse still, really shoehorn bad ones in universes that people adore which makes it look like “star wars , with more woman” is the goal and story, characters, quality writing is completely ignored.
I’m sure some will try and suggest it’s some sort of anti female sentiment which is bollox , it’s calling a spade a spade. My favourite action character of all time is ripley from aliens franchise. Not only bad ass, but starts off a strong female , with maternal instincts , unreal capacity to adapt and just ridiculous smarts. That’s a proper strong female character, not “male looking action female character”.
What. The. feck.
Its like after listening to the criticisms they went and completely reshot the next episode in the space of a week. It unrecognisable, they've upped the target audience from 6 year olds to 12 at least.
Some inherent flaws they can't get away from now but if I erase everything leading up to it from my mind... Feels like that was a good episode by any standard, possibly even great... That's maybe a bit too far but there's hope for this show yet, shockingly.
Its like after listening to the criticisms they went and completely reshot the next episode in the space of a week. It unrecognisable, they've upped the target audience from 6 year olds to 12 at least.
Some inherent flaws they can't get away from now but if I erase everything leading up to it from my mind... Feels like that was a good episode by any standard, possibly even great... That's maybe a bit too far but there's hope for this show yet, shockingly.
Some of the best lightsaber fighting in live action we’ve seen recently - hints of Ahsoka in Clone Wars animated (RIP Jecki) - especially since there were real stakes involved (unlike Ahsoka the show).
Should have just been one episode combined with last week’s though.
Should have just been one episode combined with last week’s though.
I didn't even think they gave her enough to really compare between a Qui Gon, Mace or Obi Wan type which is a damn shame.
If a fire in space is too unrealistic for him, wait till he hears about people moving things with their minds and giant teddy bears flying spaceships.
..and little cute Teddy bears taking down the big-bad.
Manny Jacinto was excellent in that episode.
Have you....never seen SW before?
Ah there’s fantasy and just stupidly lazy stuff like that. You’d expect that sort of stuff in a yellow pack kids show, this is Star Wars 200 million tv show. It stuck out like a sore thumb because it looked out of place, like a campfire on top of a spaceship (not just from a science POV).
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Science in Star Wars works differently. George himself said that. There was sound and fire in space in the OG trilogy. It's not being lazy, the rules are just different because George said so.
I’ve watched a lot of SW, but there’s good made up sh*t and bad made up sh/t. It’s not the fire in space that’s the problem , it’s the use of it and the scene.
Disney are making up all sorts of stupid sh.8t that looks sh.8t. If you’re gonna make up stuff, at least make it interesting. A campfire on the roof of a spaceship in space; is not the same visually as a laser cutting through ships in a space battle. Who cares about logic when something is cool, that’s what the likes of SW is all about,
This slow scene , where you have plenty of time to see a stupid looking fire in space and actually think about it , just doesn’t work. It’s like seeing behind the curtain in wizard of ozz, you need distractions or speed. You might get away with that if the story is good, the show is good and/or the character is interesting/popular, but when world building it looks cheap and boring and reminds you that everything is made up in the show.
Im on episode 3 or 4 (not sure which at this point) but Christ its been terrible so far.
Finally caught up last night. Mostly my issues have been writing based. Without spoilers I think the villain motivation is a bit weak. I think the main setup here in terms of why are these specific Jedi being hunted down "What did they do?" is not being handled the best.
I guess a little spoilery to expand
I guess a little spoilery to expand
3 of the 4 are now dead and only the first Jedi Trinity had a real fight scene really. The rest got offed pretty easy for this to be the basis of the main storyline. I get you don't just tell us immediately what they did. But, if it is going to be the basis for this "hunt" and kill mystery. You have to write it in a way that makes the audience care about them getting caught and killed. With either a great hunt scene narratively, or somehow making us care about either them or the motivation for the hunter? Right now it's just boring. And they keep dying pretty easily and its like oh well. We have no basis to care. That is a writing issue. And character development issue.
Fight sequence was well done. Shame they killed Jecki. But at least she went out with a fight, unlike the other pathetic Jedi.
Rest of the episode was mediocre.
Rest of the episode was mediocre.
Everyone hating the show and yet still watching it.
Just finished watching season 3 of Bad Batch. I would love to see more of clones,specially the story of Rex.
Just finished watching season 3 of Bad Batch. I would love to see more of clones,specially the story of Rex.
Wtf just watched the first episode and they kill carrie anne moss in the first scene? Unforgivable.
Star wars is dead and looks to be getting replaced as a space opera/fantasy film setting by dune moving forward, which ironically Lucas was partly inspired by back in the day.
Ok, i was wrong. This CAN be even worse. Bloody hell, this is truly and absolutely awful. I am still watching though. Just to see what level of shit this show can reach.
Just caught up now on the latest 3 episodes. Am I alone here in kinda enjoying it? 
Certainly getting better. First 3 episodes were quite weak
Certainly getting better. First 3 episodes were quite weak
Which film?
I genuinely can't remember ever seeing fire in Space in SW before.
FYI explosions isn't fire in Space. That's obviously oxygen or fuel within ships that are blowing up, burning and then extinguishing.