This is winding a lot of people up.
It should wind up pretty much every United fan who wants United to get back to the top..
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It should wind up pretty much every United fan who wants United to get back to the top..
100%, standards are at an all time low. I would've thought the midfield of Giggs, Keane, Scholes and Beckham would've engraved the importance of excellent passing and technical ability coming from those areas into every utd fan's memory.
Stéphane Guivarch is a world cup winning striker, miles better than Cantona!Phil Neville had one great performance against Arsenal in midfield, the rest were passable and nothing more. Fortune one great performance against Real in midfield, Smith one great performance against Chelsea in midfield. I think perhaps it's you that may have only watched the big games over the years...
He'd have the same problem as VDB in that position with our team. Lack of creativity.
The last time McT had a creative thought he was 5y old and playing with lego.
Agreed. They are both not good enough, especially McTominay for me
I agree with your overall points but why do you think the club should shoehorn McTominay into the team like the Scottish national team do? Scotland do it because they have better options in midfield and apparently lack depth at the back.
We don't have that issue at united. If he's not good enough get rid. He'll eventually be replaced by better aquisitions in my opinion
Seeing some posts here; man, our standards really dropped a lot.
Last two years our midfield with McT was dominated by nearly every midfield in league because he can't keep the ball or create something. His defensive game is not good also and he is often in no man's land.
But hey, he does few reckless tackles per game so passion, eh? That is enough to be United player these days i guess.
Last two years our midfield with McT was dominated by nearly every midfield in league because he can't keep the ball or create something. His defensive game is not good also and he is often in no man's land.
But hey, he does few reckless tackles per game so passion, eh? That is enough to be United player these days i guess.
Personally, I think it's the goals from midfield that impress people more than anything else.
He has surprisingly very good shooting technique. He has been clearly working on that and those diagonal balls to Shaw. Hopefully he works on his positioning as well. I don’t think he’s the finished article of a midfielder yet even as he just turns 25
Phil Neville had one great performance against Arsenal in midfield, the rest were passable and nothing more. Fortune one great performance against Real in midfield, Smith one great performance against Chelsea in midfield. I think perhaps it's you that may have only watched the big games over the years...
Ive watched plenty, thats why i know what to expect from a Manchester United CM, and MC T will never be in the class needed for this club to be successful.
Whether he or Fred are good enough is debatable but doesnt help when both are playing as 6's when clearly they are 8's. Also does help when Bruno is chasing goals and assist and offer nothing defensively. The idea that we are losing midfield battles is often more to do with playing against opposition 3 midfield with 2.....
But mainly because we only play 2 in the middle and other teams have 3 and then have their fullbacks support. We are a time of zones and the midfield is the smallest. 2 players doing the work of themselves and the attackers who never drop quickly enough to help, or the fullbacks who never press and support off the ball.
It's not easy fighting battles with a clear disadvantage.
Preach brother!
He's technically too poor to be a good box or attacking CM. Maybe for Crystal Palace's level.
Biggest thing McTominay needs to sort out at the moment is that he hides from the ball too much when his defenders need someone to pass to. He sits perfectly in line with the attacker and defender to make sure that there is no chance of a pass coming into him. I assume this is intentional at some level but it makes it so much harder for our defenders when they are under any sort of press.
Of course that is part of the problem. And off the ball that is a big issue, they go running all over the place trying to plug holes. When they should really hold and position themsleves better and make sure others get back and do their jobs properly.
On the ball. The main part of it is that neither he nor Fred are comfortable enough taking the ball and moving it quickly and effectively. They just lack the required technical ability to be able to do it. That is why neither of them is good enough.
I think his game would be elevated if played along side a top quality Regista type of midfielder. Problem is we don't have one at the club.
He scored a great goal and had some good moments but that was it. MOTM? You must be joking. DeGea was the MOTM.
David Beckham initially wanted to play centre midfield for United but had to settle for right side midfield and worked a lot on his crossing. He'd walk into the position right now.
Scott McTominay is turning 26 this year, 2 years older than Scholes and Beckham were when they won the CL, after playing huge parts in winning league titles and trophies the previous years.
Standards have fallen indeed. Future captain. Jesus wept.
Scott McTominay is turning 26 this year, 2 years older than Scholes and Beckham were when they won the CL, after playing huge parts in winning league titles and trophies the previous years.
Standards have fallen indeed. Future captain. Jesus wept.
That won't happen. Any midfielder we buy, McTominay will still be an awful passer and have a substandard level of technical ability. A new midfielder won't help. It irrates me when he keeps getting picked as his level is a mid to bottom table side.
Jesus Christ. If Scott McTominay is a future captain then the club is screwed.
Phil Neville had one great performance against Arsenal in midfield, the rest were passable and nothing more. Fortune one great performance against Real in midfield, Smith one great performance against Chelsea in midfield. I think perhaps it's you that may have only watched the big games over the years...
Phil Neville, and Smith were much better players than McTominay. P Neville will waltz into this midfield while McTominay cannot even get into the Scottish midfield.
Says a lot about the state of our squad in terms of leaders in the dressing room, that a mediocre midfielder like him has been a starter for several managers now. He must be one who stands out in training, and one of few that gives his all.
Absolutely. McT is a more than capable box to box midfielder, but you don't want him to be the one doing the playmaking. You want him on a supporting role, constantly moving up and down the pitch.
A good deep lying playmaker would improve his game massively. Not only his, everyone's.
We need to get someone as soon as possible, and clubs know it so we gonna get fleeced. But we have to pay up to get out of the hole we dug ourselves in.
Many good options out there.
Isn't McT the best player under Rangnick so far ? The bar ain't high but I see it as a way to encourage him to play even better
Phil Neville had one great performance against Arsenal in midfield, the rest were passable and nothing more. Fortune one great performance against Real in midfield, Smith one great performance against Chelsea in midfield. I think perhaps it's you that may have only watched the big games over the years...
To be fair.. A passable performance against the standards back then would be an absolute smasher of a worldclass performance against today's standards I see in a lot of posters here..
Almost everyone was poor, Varane decent.
He got the MOTM because his goal decided the game. I believe the reaction would be different if it was some other player?
He got the MOTM because his goal decided the game. I believe the reaction would be different if it was some other player?
Due to a lacking midfield. I'd put Shaw and Dalot ahead of him even - at least they were fighting. McTominay just escorted the opposition without attempting any tackle, and when they found the easiest pass to a teammate due to a lack of any pressure, he'd do that half hop and go on to escort the receiver of the ball.
He scored a goal, there's that. But after that he wasn't average, he was terrible. He's big, strong, fast, but for whatever reason refuses to engage in most games. I'm not saying he stands around and watches like some of his teammates, but then he mostly just shadows the opposition as opposed to putting any real pressure or tackles on them. When he receives the ball, he usually just passes back to the defense or gives it to the opposition. Then you get the occasional game where he's suddenly this midfield general running the show, turning away from trouble, pinging cross field passes, shooting, tackling, holding players off, etc. and you wonder if it's really the same player
And this was after a MotM!
There appears to be an agenda against McT regardless of his performance.
When the four attack minded players are seriously under performing and not retaining the ball, it leaves a two man midfield getting overrun.
These 'alleged' superstars are putting in seriously poor performances, week in, week out and exposing the rest of the team. This is the biggest problem we have.
There appears to be an agenda against McT regardless of his performance.
When the four attack minded players are seriously under performing and not retaining the ball, it leaves a two man midfield getting overrun.
These 'alleged' superstars are putting in seriously poor performances, week in, week out and exposing the rest of the team. This is the biggest problem we have.
There's an agenda vs our midfield (which clearly isn't world class but also isn't trash), but the biggest issue for its state is the lack of support from the front off theball, and the fact we only play 2 there not 3 like most teams.
It's amazing how the two players playing between the midfield and the strikers have been God awful , yet some how Fred and mctominay always get the blame
I'm sorry but I really don't agree with your comments.
Our midfield is a huge problem and has been all season. McTominay scored a good goal and player a few nice long range passes but generally he was poor.
Some of the short passing was poor, players ran past him at will and he doesn't make himself open to receive the ball enough.
It's not 100 percent his fault because he plays better with a more defensive partner but when he plays with Fred it's a disaster.
If you look at all the games this season, how many time have we won the midfield battle? Three or four times this season? We are Man Utd and our midfield is shocking.
As unfair as it may be I compare McTominay and Fred to the standard we had in the past with Scholes, Keane, Robson...this is the level of midfield we should aspire to have.
Look at where we are in the table and our performances and I think midfield is our biggest issue by far. Again I'm fine with McTominay as a squad player but he is being used as our main midfielder.
Do you feel they deserve no blame for building up play from the back then? I agree with the linking up when progressing into the opposition's half, but they do deserve shared criticism of their involvement when we are playing from out the back.
Cleverley no. He was McTominay minus the brawn and goals, with a few extra safe possession passes.
Fellaini may have been a better player, but he wasn't a better midfielder. He's only ever excelled anywhere as a target man further up the pitch.
It's because every week the opposition's midfielders look like prime Keane and Viera against us compared to Scott and Fred. Against Wolves, Neves and Moutinho were passing the ball like prime Iniesta and Xavi in the middle compared to the trash we're used to seeing. Against Aston Villa, McGinn and Ramsey were running through our midfield at will, it was like we had no midfield at all defensively.
Don't get me wrong, though. I thought McTominay was much better than Fred overall and particularly in the first 30 minutes he was actually playing really well and one of our better players. The problem is, as soon the going gets tough he literally disappears from the game. Doesn't show for the ball, doesn't attempt any progressing passes, doesn't defend, jocks back etc. How is it possible that in the second half he genuinely disappeared from the game? I would love to see the stats for McTominay in terms of touches, passes, progression with the ball in the 1st half vs 2nd half because visually the drop in performance was astounding. And sadly Scott losing presence in the game is a common reoccurance, which should be impossible for a central midfielder at Manchester United.
I think a lot of you have forgotten what it means to have a good midfielder in the team if you're satisfied by McTominay's MOTM performance
I really excpected more defensive contributions from him. He doesn't impose himself in games aldo he has the tools. But as a DM we can sure rely on 8 to 10 goals a season at this rate. There is no questioning his attitude either.
McTominay is our academy product, he carries the pride for playing for the club on his sleeve, he also gives his 100 per cent every match.
So, obviously, it is worth people's while to abuse him every chance they get!
So, obviously, it is worth people's while to abuse him every chance they get!
Building out from the back isn't remotely our problem. Progressing the ball into the final third is. Plus the large squares we are left without the ba thanks to having 2 dead positions on pitch.
In a 4-2-2-2 the responsibility for ball progression into the final third is on the 2 behind the strikers and our fullbacks.
The defence and the double pivot are supposed to start out from the back to feed the advancing fullbacks and the 2 behind the strikers. Not run play for them.
The 2 in deep midfield are the defensive safety net, plus the out let for relief from opposing pressing for those in the final 3rd and the advanced full backs.
The fullbacks are supposed to provide the width in the final 3rd and the 2 '10'/playmaking wingers are supposed to provide the final third creativity
Right now only the fullbacks of the equation function.
Our starting 2 behind the strikers in Rashford and Bruno have been utterly awful form wise since before a Rangnick arrived. Sancho has been up and down and only greenwood has shown any consistency.
For some reason too the coach doesn't trust Mata Van debeek, Amad, Elanga nor to Lingard to step in. We whilst Pogba isn't available
As a result our strikers literally feed on scraps. Plus our possession suffers once it gets to the 2 behind the strikers it always gets lost. Even worse we because the aforementioned 2 constantly do nothing. We get to out numbered in center midfield and our pressing is non existent because we have a hole our 3 lines of 2. Giving the opponents ample space to play through the large squares it causes in our attempt to defend without the ball
Rather you have simply forgotten that 2 midfielders alone can never run a game
against serious opposition. Yet for some reason you ludicrously conflate it with us having dropped do out standards for what to midfielders should be.
Against wolves we operated a 4-2-2-2- the entire first half. It was the job of the 2 10s to pick up moutinho and neves. The 2 deep midfielders were already occupied with dealing with advancing fullbacks and inside out wingers.
It's really strange to blame our 2 deepest midfielders who were occupied full time for the freedom wolves 2 deepest midfielders had.
The mentioned 2 were so useless it ended up being cr7 and cavani trying to pick up the midfielders, freeing up wolves ball playing cbs to push further into midfield further outnumbering our 2 deepest midfielders.
Basically we've had one problem all season. Our two deepest midfielders being left all alone in center midfield to defend, recycle possession, press off the ball and create things in the final 3rd with no real help from any of the 4 ahead of them in that area. Even prime Keane and Scholes would have looked just as useless if beckham and Giggs , plus Yorke, Sheringham were offering as much help as the likes of Bruno, Rashford and even Sancho have done of late.
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Yeah pretty much, it doesn't matter who you put in the midfield two, when the forwards don't press but also don't drop back infront of them and the defenders retreat behind them, they basically end up with space infront of them, space behind them space down the side and they are expected to cover all of that on there own as the forwards stroll around after carelessly giving the ball away, and the CB's shit themselves and retreat because God forbid de gea won't leave his line to sweep. And then we wonder why we are so easy to play through.
We either have to drop back into some sort of block when we lose the ball or we have to push forward and press, what happens at the moment is anyones guess because we don't do either consistently and when we do press its disorganised and the defenders don't normally come forward enough and then when we drop back into a block the forwards don't really commit a d get behind the ball and the defenders normally retreat too far leaving to much space.
The midfielders just end up inbetween not attached to either the attack or defence completely overrun.
Doesn't mean Scott McTominay is a Manchester United player. Not good enough technically and passing is average. He takes a freaking age to trap the ball and pass it. If you think Scott McTominay is good enough, then you have no standards then. If McTominay keeps playing, we won't get top four.
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