Why do our team have less passes, touches, assists and goals than the teams above us?
Your argument is flawed. I mean, it's like saying that De Bruyne (35.8) has less passes than Laporte (85.8) so he must hide a whole bunch.
39
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 10
- Status
Why do our team have less passes, touches, assists and goals than the teams above us?
Your argument is flawed. I mean, it's like saying that De Bruyne (35.8) has less passes than Laporte (85.8) so he must hide a whole bunch.
We don't play through the midfield because he's part of the problem with our midfield. Our midfield as a whole is awful and he is part of the problem.
So, McTominay is being blamed for defenders not passing to him (or Fred/Matic/Pogba)?
If McTominay was indeed the problem, Fred would get the same numbers that Rodri and Thuago does. He doesn't
Just waiting for people to blame the War on Ukraine on McTominay. Apparently, Putin has blamed Nazi-ism... and McTominay.
You'll do well on the caf, answering a question with another question. Try again. Why does Mctom have less accurate passes than his own teammates who play in the exact same position?
Are you trying to tell me that every other teams midfielders has exactly the same accurate passes per match?
Gundogan has 39.3. Rodri has 79.
I'll guarantee that no Man City fans are whinging their hands with outrage and pouring our sorrow and anguish because Gundogan has less passing stats than Rodri.
Football is a game of many parts. If you're building a house, there's a foundation, a middle and a roof.
The stats I have seen show he did all of what I mentioned.
Nobody is making the claim that McTominay should have the same amount of passes. What they are saying is that he hides, and the stats further prove what people see on the pitch. If Gundogan was noticed by City fans as hiding, and then the stats back that up, then I would guess they would complain.
All you're doing is looking at more successful midfields, and then looking at stats being unequal to defend McTominay. That makes no sense because those midfields don't have the same problem as ours which has someone like McTominay who not only has bad technique, but also hides away from receiving the ball. Is Gundogan poor on the ball? Not as bad as McTominay. Is Gundogan a better attacker? Yes.
In United's case, our midfield is sorely lacking and we believe McTominay hiding is one of the reasons why. I would say the same for Fred if I felt that he was shying away from the ball. But almost all of us don't believe that is the case. We believe's Fred's negatives lie elsewhere.
Do people get paid everytime they say "hiding"? I keep hearing it, but no one will actually explain what they mean. Does he hide In a cupboard? Under thr stairs? How can a player hide on a football pitch? Cloak of invisibility?
Is that really the issue? People are talking like Fred, etc, are far eclipsing McTominay in every stat. It's just not true.
How about comparing the stats of Sancho to De Bruyne or Maguire to Van Dijk? Or are those two playing badly because of Scott McTominay?
How about Dalot with TAA?
Comparing our midfielders numbers to other team's midfielders isn't fair. Liverpool and City players are always going to average more passes than our players. They're much better teams and have more of the ball. You compare our midfielders with each other. I compare Fred and McT to each other. It says a lot. Fred receives the ball and plays more passes than McT on a consistent basis. He also plays a wider variety and more forward passes. Both of them are playing deeper in midfield. They should be averaging a similar number. They don't. Matic also averages more than McT. McT has to take a lot of the blame for averaging lower stats than our other midfielders.
It doesn't matter who the player is, though. If you compare our players to other players in the same position in other elite teams, ours are going to have worse stats. Mostly because those players are better than ours, but also because they have more of the ball.
It doesn't matter who the player is, though. If you compare our players to other players in the same position in other elite teams, ours are going to have worse stats. Mostly because those players are better than ours, but also because they have more of the ball.
You're wasting your time with him. He'll defend McTominay to the moon.
The fact that someone is 'stanning' over McTominay is quite something.
Yeah I realised the same thing. The guy brought Nazism, Putin and Harry Potter into his arguments for fecks sake. Mctom was by most accounts our most easily upgraded player last season. One year later a few players have joined him in that shithole. The amount of starts he has for us is embarrassing and a clear sign of where we are as a football club.
Hiding is a very very simple term. McTominay consistently doesn't make the movement required to offer an outlet to players when they need one. Its most obvious when the defenders have the ball and there is a opposition player between the defender and McTominay. He won't make the movement required to allow the defender to pass to him. He "hides" behind that opposition player and takes himself out of the game.
Its actually impressive how well he takes himself out of the game sometimes. The opposition player isn't actively tracking McTominay to cancel the pass, McTominay is just standing perfectly in line with the player.
McTominay would be better served changing his position further forward, not backwards. In a 4-3-3 as one of two 8’s.
He started his career in the academy as a striker, and has moved backwards over time. It is therefore not hugely surprising that he lacks any sort of natural defensive positioning or awareness - this is his biggest problem, and why he will always struggle as a DM or in a double-pivot. The seeming lackadaisical attitude and jogging is another symptom of this (and annoys me as much as anyone).
His technique, passing, dribbling and shooting are all absolutely fine and he has shown he contributes well in the final third, and when he can get on the ball, turn and drive at the opposition.
In our team, I would sooner have him as a replacement for Bruno than as a DM or CB, this is much closer to his natural and best position. If ETH opts for a 4-3-3 and we buy a proper DM to play behind him, McTominay can contribute effectively. If we continue to play a double-pivot, then he needs to play somewhere in front of it, if possible.
He started his career in the academy as a striker, and has moved backwards over time. It is therefore not hugely surprising that he lacks any sort of natural defensive positioning or awareness - this is his biggest problem, and why he will always struggle as a DM or in a double-pivot. The seeming lackadaisical attitude and jogging is another symptom of this (and annoys me as much as anyone).
His technique, passing, dribbling and shooting are all absolutely fine and he has shown he contributes well in the final third, and when he can get on the ball, turn and drive at the opposition.
In our team, I would sooner have him as a replacement for Bruno than as a DM or CB, this is much closer to his natural and best position. If ETH opts for a 4-3-3 and we buy a proper DM to play behind him, McTominay can contribute effectively. If we continue to play a double-pivot, then he needs to play somewhere in front of it, if possible.
No it isn't. His technique is awful. His dribbling is only something done with open space. Just compare him to someone like Bellingham who plays a similar role to the one you're describing. Night and day difference. And it's not like Bellingham is the finished product. Or compare him to Garner.
"Hiding" would infer that he's purposely not offering for the ball and doesn't want it. It's not true. I prefer to call it bad "spacial awareness".
I've noticed it when he's played for Scotland and so has Steve Clarke. McTominay plays in defence for Scotland as he has more time on the ball and he doesn't have to negotiate space as much as he would if he were in midfield.
Can spacial awareness be coached? I think so. Some players, spacial awareness comes naturally. Some players, it doesn't.
The term "hiding" is jarring. It's such s lazy term
He's a professional footballer. No professional footballer hides from the ball. And even if McTominay was guilty of it, he's had five managers, including Ralf, who really knows his stuff, I think they would've told him.
I think ETH will take a shine to him. If be does, I think this "hiding" business should be binned, but we both know that it won't be. It's easier to say a buzz word than it I'd to go into the analytics of it.
"Stanning"? Nice up-to-date pop culture reference.
Want to throw in a Fonzi reference, too?
I don't know if he's doing it deliberately, but the end result is the same.
There was one moment last season which absolutely blew my mind. Shaw had the ball on the left and Scott was standing behind an opposition player. Shaw passed it to Maguire, and the opposition player jogged over closer to him with Scott jogging behind him the entire time. Maguire passed it to Lindelof, and the opposition player jogged across the field with Scott shadowing him the entire way. Lindelof then passed it to AWB and the opposition player moved a different direction to cover another pass...Scott instantly jogged over to stand behind a different opposition player.
A passage of play that lasted a good 20 seconds, went through four different players who were all obviously looking to pass the ball forward, and Scott spent the entire time making it completely impossible to pass to him. Not because opposition players were positioning themselves well, but because he was making the conscious decision to move into those positions. Whether it's deliberate 'hiding' because he doesn't trust himself to get on the ball, or if it's incompetence where he doesn't realise that he's doing it, the end result is the same.
There would be no discussion about McTom if he plays for another team (probably a midtable one), and that tells the whole story about his ability.
Remember Daniel James? Ask yourself whether you want to buy him now? Do the same to our MrAverage.
A midfielder who can't tackle, no positioning awareness whatsoever, whose passing ability is hit and miss and lack of finesse & technique. McTom may shine in Stoke and Burnley type of team, and that's his level, unfortunately.
Remember Daniel James? Ask yourself whether you want to buy him now? Do the same to our MrAverage.
A midfielder who can't tackle, no positioning awareness whatsoever, whose passing ability is hit and miss and lack of finesse & technique. McTom may shine in Stoke and Burnley type of team, and that's his level, unfortunately.
The best part, is how after making himself unavailable, right at the end he points where the ball should go. It’s typical of mindset of this squad, no personal accountability or responsibility.
I don’t think he hides he just isn’t very good and doesn’t really know what to do, maybe he’ll improve with coaching but can afford to wait anymore for him to improve now.
Of course he hides. Look at other well organised teams, even Brentford do it before Eriksen arrived. they have players in midfield who constantly show for the ball, pass and then move (into space). Most of our team are static and in positions they cant be passed to.
Yes. He just has no clue about the positional requirements of a CM. His positioning is just as hapless when the opposition have the ball. It’s a real problem for us every time he plays.
Interesting.
As I said, though, if he were actually "hiding" he would hear about it. Ralf doesn't look the kind of person who minced his words.
I just think it's lack of spacial awareness. I noticed it when he was playing in midfield for Scotland, one of the few times. He was playing next to Gilmour... the differences in spacial awareness of both players was striking.
I don't think it's a case of him not trusting his ability. He's one of these players whose second touch is better than his first, and that is bad if he have bad spacial awareness.
We'll see what ETH makes of him.
You just described the definition of spacial awareness.
It's time for people to stop being silly. No matter what you think of him, he's a professional footballer and an international. No player in a professional football league "hides" from the ball.
For which he doesn't even play in midfield. Does Scotland have very good midfielders or is Scottie just a shit midfielder?
You read my mind. I was going to add that to my post.
We play with three in midfield. Two pivots and one attacking midfielder: McGregor, Gilmour and McGinn. Two of them play in the EPL and McGregor could.
Are they better than McTominay? At the basics?Yes. That's not a slight on McTominay. Gilmour is with Chelsea and McGinn has been linked to us and Liverpool over the years.
I trust those three more in midfield. McTominay has done really well in a back three.
Does McTominay have bad habits? Yes. But I'm sure those could be ironed out now that he's got a real manager coaching him. I don't think he's a lost cause.
Yes it is. United are trying to compete with the very best.
I've never heard anyone describe West Ham and Wolves like that, but ok.
Last edited:
Man Utd 1:1 Chelsea
McTominay was genuinely the worst player on the pitch. Couldn't pass the ball accurately beyond 5 yards, was easily dispossessed and failed utterly at his primary job I'd shielding the defence.
I have a lot of faith that Ten Hag can improve many of our struggling players. But I can't see him doing much with McTominay. The quality just isn't there.
I have a lot of faith that Ten Hag can improve many of our struggling players. But I can't see him doing much with McTominay. The quality just isn't there.
What a performance, he made Morgan Schneiderlin look decent in comparison.
Nothing player.
He’s diabolical. This is ridiculous.
Genuinely could have had a lower Championship midfielder out there who would have been better.
There is absolutely nothing to his game apart from being professional. No idea what to do in midfield from an attacking or defensive point of view.
Lee Cattermole was a better midfielder.
There is absolutely nothing to his game apart from being professional. No idea what to do in midfield from an attacking or defensive point of view.
Lee Cattermole was a better midfielder.
Hes shockingly bad. Fred is like Pele compared to him
There was a pass in the 1st half that completely sums him up as a player.
I think it was around the 20th or so minute @GifLord
He literally passes straight to a Chelsea player out of nothing in the midfield.
He shouldn't even be a squad player. He's horrid.
I think it was around the 20th or so minute @GifLord
He literally passes straight to a Chelsea player out of nothing in the midfield.
He shouldn't even be a squad player. He's horrid.
Painfully average. It is crazy how he starts regularly for the club
You can have all the passion in the world, but when the talent isn't there you get Scott McTominay
How is this even possible? For a central midfielder no less?
Tragic how low our standards have become at this club
He's just so poor on the ball.
Seriously I still don't know how he made it to the Utd academy, never mind all the way to the first team as a regular for 4 years. It's mind boggling stuff.
Seriously I still don't know how he made it to the Utd academy, never mind all the way to the first team as a regular for 4 years. It's mind boggling stuff.
- Status