SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Penna said:
I think if there'd been more enforcement in public areas months ago, people would understand that it's important to stay as safe as possible. Obviously there won't be any enforcement in people's houses (unless they're clearly having a loud and packed party), so once again it depends on whether folk are self-disciplined or not.
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Enforcement of what and where though? In public areas, predominantly outside, the science is saying that covid is less of a risk compared to indoors.

Dave_MUFC said:
Doesn't have to be that strict. A valid solution would be to stop people travelling through different regions (unless there was a valid reason like work, medical needs etc.), which is what they are currently doing in Italy. Put police on borders of regions, and that way you're going to stop the spread from different tiered areas, which is the main method of the virus spread at the moment.
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A nice idea, but in reality it's completely not feasible given the current resources of the police force.
 
golden_blunder said:
We could debate this til the cows come home. At the end of the day a percentage of the population will do what they want just as they have always done throughout their lives. For the rest of us that want to not put at risk our families health, we will do what we need to do in the hope of better days to come. We shouldn’t really need bungling governments to tell us what we should do to keep our families safe. Use your own common sense
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The problem is that ‘common sense’ is not that common.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I certainly wouldn’t use the Italian approach/experience as a reason to look down on the UK. Or any other country at all really.

EDIT: Not having a go at the Italian people. Or the Italian government. I have no idea who is most to blame for what’s happened. But their pandemic experience has been an absolute disaster, from start to finish.
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The Netherlands has only just gone into a hard lockdown until January too. Germany locked down until the 20th etc. I don't think all these countries are wrong and we're right.

When the virus was still fresh in March, people kept saying Italy is awful with the numbers and we'll be okay because people are old, smoke, kiss each other to greet etc. then 3-4 weeks later we were worse than them.

But as said above, I think everyone will just make their own rules. I'm not following the government rules, but in the other direction, I've just been making sure not to eat out anywhere or go to any bars since March, and haven't been meeting anyone apart from the occasional chat outdoors since September.
 
The four nations of the UK are going to have the same rules over Xmas right? Have to be I guess given that so many travel between them for Xmas.
 
Wales will go into Tier 4 on 28/12/20 after the relaxation of rules for Xmas.

Same will happen in England, but a week or so later I predict
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I certainly wouldn’t use the Italian approach/experience as a reason to look down on the UK. Or any other country at all really.

EDIT: Not having a go at the Italian people. Or the Italian government. I have no idea who is most to blame for what’s happened. But their pandemic experience has been an absolute disaster, from start to finish.
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I would say the Italians have been as good at bringing things back under control as they have been bad (or unlucky back in February) at letting it get out of control in the first place. As have most of the major European countries.

One certain and noticeable thing is how much longer the UK takes to reduce numbers after each wave. That's down to government policy and people's behaviour.
 
11101 said:
I would say the Italians have been as good at bringing things back under control as they have been bad (or unlucky back in February) at letting it get out of control in the first place. As have most of the major European countries.

One certain and noticeable thing is how much longer the UK takes to reduce numbers after each wave. That's down to government policy and people's behaviour.
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It’s almost a philosophical difference. Brutally harsh lockdowns when deaths per capita hit the red zone, or a less stringent regional lockdown when deaths are not quite bad. The former gets on top of numbers more quickly (because it has to) The latter is slightly kinder to businesses (and, arguably, the population as a whole)

It’s hard to see why we would put Italy on a pedestal above the Uk when they seem to have endured a higher death rate (in both waves) and more socially/economically disruptive measures to try and control the spread of the virus.

We should revisit this in January, though. Because that’s when the UK approach could look much worse.
 
Tibs said:
Wales will go into Tier 4 on 28/12/20 after the relaxation of rules for Xmas.

Same will happen in England, but a week or so later I predict
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In Wales they’re saying that the two / three household mixing over Xmas is just advice now, not law.
 
Will anybody follow WHO advice and wear masks when meeting family and spending time outdoors?

I know their advice is aimed at the whole world so the latter can be done as it's summer in the southern hemisphere. However, how many people are going to spend the day wearing masks when they are eating and drinking together?

Moreover, how many people in the northern hemisphere are going to spend extended periods outside?

It all seems idealistic from the WHO, I doubt even it's employees will follow this advice
 
Stack said:
How much Govt assistance is there for wage earners and business with the Govt mandated lockdowns in the UK?
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If your from London there is an 80% furlough scheme in place.
If your from Manchester there is a 66% furlough scheme in place.

To be fair, there has been more government support than i expected as a whole. Probably to much. People that live off the state are in a much better place now than they were before covid, free school meals outside school terms, xmas bonus' and so on.
The working Man is a sucker!
 
SiRed said:
To be fair, there has been more government support than i expected as a whole. Probably to much. People that live off the state are in a much better place now than they were before covid, free school meals outside school terms, xmas bonus' and so on.
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:rolleyes:



Thousands of benefit claimants are due to receive a Christmas bonus from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

The money is a one-off, tax-free £10 payment which is made to people who are in receipt of certain benefits during the qualifying period, which was last week.

Which means eligible claimants can expect to receive their payment any time between now and Christmas - several Daily Record readers who receive Personal Independence Payment (PIP) got in touch to confirm they had received their £10 bonus on Friday, December 11.

The DWP will also send out a letter to accompany the bonus, although this may arrive after the money has gone into your account.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/money/dwp-starts-paying-christmas-bonus-23165815
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Pogue Mahone said:
It’s almost a philosophical difference. Brutally harsh lockdowns when deaths per capita hit the red zone, or a less stringent regional lockdown when deaths are not quite bad. The former gets on top of numbers more quickly (because it has to) The latter is slightly kinder to businesses (and, arguably, the population as a whole)

It’s hard to see why we would put Italy on a pedestal above the Uk when they seem to have endured a higher death rate (in both waves) and more socially/economically disruptive measures to try and control the spread of the virus.

We should revisit this in January, though. Because that’s when the UK approach could look much worse.
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Apart from in areas of the south of Italy during this second wave, I think there's been pretty good buy-in from the public. Parts of the south get a pass as far as I'm concerned, because there's nowhere in the UK that would compare in terms of social and economic deprivation - it's real grinding poverty exploited by organised crime.

We've had a "masks outside your house" rule across the country for months and months now, and there's still 100% compliance around where we live.

@11101 will have a perspective from the big city which may be different, but in a country with an ageing population and massive regional socio-economic diversity, I think Italy's done quite well.
 
Penna said:
Apart from in areas of the south of Italy during this second wave, I think there's been pretty good buy-in from the public. Parts of the south get a pass as far as I'm concerned, because there's nowhere in the UK that would compare in terms of social and economic deprivation - it's real grinding poverty exploited by organised crime.

We've had a "masks outside your house" rule across the country for months and months now, and there's still 100% compliance around where we live.

@11101 will have a perspective from the big city which may be different, but in a country with an ageing population and massive regional socio-economic diversity, I think Italy's done quite well.
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As per my edit, I’m not trying to point fingers. I’m just saying that the Uk shouldn’t be considered a failure in comparison to Italy when - using all available objective measures - it’s dealt with this pandemic better than Italy has. So far. And I’m saying this as someone who thinks the UK could and should have done better than they did.
 
Maybe 1 of Boris's even more stupid press conferences and that's saying something!

The idea of appealing to peoples personal responsibility is hilarious, its very clear that most people have no personal responsibility if something goes wrong people blame other people that's how it works.

And how can they ask other people to take personal responsibility even they can't even admit they made a mistake setting this Christmas bubble to start with.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
Maybe 1 of Boris's even more stupid press conferences and that's saying something!

The idea of appealing to peoples personal responsibility is hilarious, its very clear that most people have no personal responsibility if something goes wrong people blame other people that's how it works.

And how can they ask other people to take personal responsibility even they can't even admit they made a mistake setting this Christmas bubble to start with.
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I was thinking exactly the same. I just wonder if someone has maybe asked the virus if it will appeal to its own personal responsibility and relax for 5 days for us? People will make the most of these 5 days and we'll no doubt see the results in a few weeks.
 
Volumiza said:
I was thinking exactly the same. I just wonder if someone has maybe asked the virus if it will appeal to its own personal responsibility and relax for 5 days for us? People will make the most of these 5 days and we'll no doubt see the results in a few weeks.
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yep then everyone will blame everyone else and 'Personal responsibility' will never even be considered!
 
People were going to meet over Christmas no matter the rules. The government cannot win with this one.
 
If ''most people'' are selfish and irresponsible then surely the 5 day relaxation on restrictions won't make a huge difference in cases as many posters are predicting as ''most people'' will have not been following guidelines in the first place.

I predict January won't be half as bad as some fear, and that the 5 day relaxation won't have that big an impact. Schools are closed for 2 week and many people will be off work which will give some counter balance, and lets face it, these are the real areas of transmission, not going into a family members home for tea.

People that have been sensible so far since March will continue to do so over Christmas. Where as those taking advantage of the relaxed rules will mainly be the people that have been idiots all the way through!
 
Penna said:
Apart from in areas of the south of Italy during this second wave, I think there's been pretty good buy-in from the public. Parts of the south get a pass as far as I'm concerned, because there's nowhere in the UK that would compare in terms of social and economic deprivation - it's real grinding poverty exploited by organised crime.

We've had a "masks outside your house" rule across the country for months and months now, and there's still 100% compliance around where we live.

@11101 will have a perspective from the big city which may be different, but in a country with an ageing population and massive regional socio-economic diversity, I think Italy's done quite well.
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The big city is not much different. The vast majority are following the rules, which is quite surprising for Italy. And with the exception of a blip a couple of months ago most think the government has done a good job.

People understand the death toll will be high because of the population age and living situations here.
 
I don’t normally have sympathy with the government but I do in this instance. It’s a no win situation and the rules will be ignored regardless. At least putting some guidelines around Christmas means people may be more likely to accept a more reasonable request - making it law not so see people would never work and would probably result in worse outcomes.
I for one am going to be spending the day at home with my partner and foregoing the usual tradition of being with her large family. It sucks but there we go. That’s the situation we are in.
 
Volumiza said:
I was thinking exactly the same. I just wonder if someone has maybe asked the virus if it will appeal to its own personal responsibility and relax for 5 days for us? People will make the most of these 5 days and we'll no doubt see the results in a few weeks.
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Wait.. what? Are you telling me Covid isn’t taking time off for Christmas? So he didn’t take Easter, any national days, Halloween or even a summer holiday? Mind blown
 
I know I really shouldn't be surprised anymore and should accept the numbers as inevitable but 25 000 cases and 600 deaths today in the UK is grim viewing.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I've made my Xmas plans based on the 5 day relaxation - invites sorted, food bought etc. Going to avoid watching any news etc now as it’s depressing.
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The guest that doesn't need an invite could very well attend. This ones a real party pooper. His mates will certainly be in attendance at many events across the country.
 
Irwin99 said:
I know I really shouldn't be surprised anymore and should accept the numbers as inevitable but 25 000 cases and 600 deaths today in the UK is grim viewing.
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Significant case increases in London, East & South East:

EpYXlPwXYAYBNeP
 
So we're now back to the position we were in right before lockdown, with London now seeing the highest rises, and rules are about to be relaxed for Christmas with a load of people in London likely spreading out around the country?
 
Ubik said:
So we're now back to the position we were in right before lockdown, with London now seeing the highest rises, and rules are about to be relaxed for Christmas with a load of people in London likely spreading out around the country?
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Imagine actually being run by a competent government? Would be great.
 
Bollocks.

5 cases out in the community on NSW. 1 bus driver who transported airline crew and 4 on the Northern Beaches possibly related to each other but of unknown source so far. Hopefully either track and trace works ASAP or we put the Northern Beaches into full lockdown for a week (doubt they will so close to Christmas). It has been great not having to wear a mask but I'll be wearing one again from today.
 
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