SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Government obsession with keeping schools open is pathetic. Killing people every day by doing it.
What day is it that the Tier system is re-evaluated for Manchester? Does anybody know?
Apparently its not the schools!!!!! Its people popping round to their families homes for a brew
Tomorrow, I believe.
It's 16 December for the tier review, and 3 February for a potential 'sunset' on tiers altogether.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55118467
Fantastic - I cant wait to get into tier 2. After months and months of depression it will be a huge lift of morale!
Delusion of the highest order. They wheel out the data that says infection is low in schools but isn’t actually impossible to know that if kids are not showing symptoms? Teachers test rates are low but that’s probably because they’re able to keep their distance with all the mask wearing etc. Kids are giving it to each other without even knowing it then going home and spreading it there. At that point it won’t be known exactly where it’s came from.Apparently its not the schools!!!!! Its people popping round to their families homes for a brew
Be staying in 3 I think
The Christmas relaxations were always stupid. But in the light of the US Thanksgiving outcome and the increased cases here, it will be negligence of the government for not revising their arrangements.
Why five days?
Why five days?
That's my guess as well. Having places open up just before Christmas through into the New Year, and then families meeting up over Christmas just sounds like a recipe for a truly grim January. If things go well over Christmas then opening up in January and staying open sounds like a much nicer option. Though even that might be wishful thinking, but it would be preferable, if we can achieve it.
Fingers crossed for all those vaccines that are in the pipeline and the ones that are already scheduled for rollout - at least they give me hope.
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Dunno if they share the same data in the UK but one of the pieces of information they’re using in Ireland is the positivity rate. Symptoms or not (and teens will get symptoms almost as often as adults) kids are still going to get tested, even if it’s only as close contacts with confirmed cases (e.g. if one of their family gets covid) and the % positive tests with school-kids was lower than it was for adults.
That was a while ago, though. I don’t know if its changed. And I don’t know what the UK data looks like.
Yeah it seems totally logical especially with the moving of London and the South into 3.
Can't the see value in making such changes now to be honest. Christmas and New Year are just around the corner and the furlough scheme is still in place. It makes sense to tighten things up or at least maintain what we have and get through the holiday season and then see where we are at.
The ONS collect data from a large random sample of the population every week, irrespective of symptoms reported or positive tests of. Available here. Imperial do another one.
Primary school kids have a positivity rate of around 1%, in line with 25-34 and 35-44 year olds and below uni age kids, but it has been rising in December.
Secondary school kids now have the highest positivity rate of 2%, while college / uni age fell down from 2.3% in mid-November to 1.3% in December. Uni folks are still infected more often than all older age groups but its coming back in line, while secondary school kids are essentially infected 2x as often as their parents, and 3-5x as often as their grandparents.
None of that suggests that schools are a disproportionately likely place for super-spreader events, you would still expect more super spreader events to have happened given the amount of time they spend in there and the limited precautions available. But they are an opportunity for transmission that isn't available to other age groups, and it's quite likely that poorly ventilated schools have went to unventilated schools as the cold started to bite. And then hanging out afterwards somewhere indoors.
If the kids aren't in school then the parents have to look after them and not work, killing the economy which is what its all about really for them.
Ok, interesting. It does seem a bit nuts that we aren’t at least extending school xmas holidays. In Ireland they’ve done the opposite. Our kids (primary school) would usually finish up this week but they’re going back in next week until Wednesday (which I think is helping catch up on days missed during first lockdown?) Thus giving them a grand total of 48 hours between a day in the classroom and a day with their granny and grandad!
British Government minister says ‘"We've got to trust the British people to act responsibly and do the minimum that is possible for them in their family situation”.
This is the same British public whose behaviours have engineered amongst the very highest density of deaths per population on the planet.
I've spoken to a few people who live abroad about their situation.British Government minister says ‘"We've got to trust the British people to act responsibly and do the minimum that is possible for them in their family situation”.
This is the same British public whose behaviours have engineered amongst the very highest density of deaths per population on the planet.
They'll say restaurants and clubs and cinemas remain open, but nobody goes and most people choose to stay away from places by choice.
It is curious how we seem to have the attitude to flock places as soon as they open. But then, i can't say i'm guilt-free. I can't wait to do things again.
This is the same British public whose behaviours have engineered amongst the very highest density of deaths per population on the planet.
That's quite the statement.
I completely understand why they would review Christmas, but I hope they don't change it. To pull away being able to see family after not not seeing some of them all year at this short notice would be brutal.
A lot of that will be driven by the knowledge that they will close again at the drop of a hat. So people will see it as their one opportunity. I think opening and closing again is only making things worse. They need to make a decision and stick with it.
I don't think they will - if only because enforcement would be a massive issue. Can you imagine the reaction if a granny got fined for having both daughters visit over Christmas.
I suspect we'll get a fudge, but I'm hoping it comes with clear (and obvious) guidance, things like:
If you're meeting on Christmas Day avoid everything (the pub, the gym, the crowded shopping centre)
and everybody for the week before.
If you have to go to work, keep away from your colleagues, sit near the open window, wear a mask.
Avoid overnight stops, if you have to stay overnight check the instructions on sharing bathroom/kitchen space etc.
Open the windows as often as you can or as much as you can.
If you can - avoid staying in the same room together for long periods.
Any symptoms - cancel the meetup, even if they happen on the day you're expected to traveller or once you're together (I reckon most people will find this is the hardest)
or something like that...
You can only stick with it so far though. Look at Germany. Just had to close all shops the week before Christmas. Having closed restaurants/bars a few weeks before that.
So you chose not to see them when the infection rate was low, but you want to see them when infection rates are higher than they’ve ever been in many places.
You need to think long and hard about how you come to decisions like this.
I recognise that times have been tough. I appreciate the desire for you to see your family.
But you’re looking logic in the face and asking if it’s ok to piss on it. Or worse, you’ll piss on it if Boris tells you it’s ok.
Unless you’ve got some really robust isolation protocols in place for all attendees, are all healthy, and will be meeting in a space that’s extremely well ventilated, large enough to maintain distance at all times.... do not go and meet your family mate.
Don’t wait for this inept corrupt bunch to tell you what’s safe for your family. They don’t care if any of them die.
You’ve got 7-10 days to get all of your gang on board with something safe. Start today. Be honest with everyone, including yourself.
People should not be mixing inside homes for the next month or so, if not longer. We all know that. Some will do it anyway. Some safely. Some not.
Be safe. Be smarter than the Government.
They know damn well with 10 days to go that plans will have been made and that people will do it anyway. If they come out with new restrictions now it's just so they can once again blame the public and try avoid any themselves.
Thanks but i noticed the pet shop was open when we drove past, must be on the essential list.
Condescending much? You know precisely zero about the reasons why we couldn't see them when cases were low.
I'm not a child, I don't need your tone.
I don’t think he was being condescending at all. In fact you should feel honoured someone cares enough to give you some advice!
He wasn't being condescending in any way. If you think seeing family is a good idea right now then nothing anyone can say is going to help you.
It’s absolute nonsense. In my school alone, there’s been 3 cases amongst staff in the last 14 days resulting in 2 classes being closed. The teachers morale is not good and everyone is tired. This government want to flog every last day out of them just because Martin promised schools would stay open.
This week they have no homework because they are “winding down”, then next week they are in for a day and a half. What’s the point? Give the teachers a break and close the bloody things this Friday, but no, you must come in next week to do feck all
I hope they all tell penfold to do one. The slimy little rat
Excellent advise. Stick that on a yellow poster Boris!
It very clear that the county is not in a position where it should be relaxing the rules over Christmas. It's also very clear that the UK population wouldn't accept not being allowed to see family over Xmas, I mean even vulnerable people I know are planning on stretching(*Cough* breaking *Cough*) the relaxed rules for the xmas period. So while I think the government are idiots and have made a mess of the whole thing from start to finish, But I think the blame for the coming Christmas fiasco lies 90% with the general British population. Of course, us British people will still blame the government and never accept any blame our selves as that is unfortunately what we do in this country.
I dunno if anyone here lives in Germany? From what I understand they have infection rates lower than ours and are going into lockdown and the population seems to be accepting of it? Am I wrong? Cos I just can't imagine British people accepting of it.
I dunno if anyone here lives in Germany? From what I understand they have infection rates lower than ours and are going into lockdown and the population seems to be accepting of it? Am I wrong? Cos I just can't imagine British people accepting of it.
Read the whole post and perhaps stop reacting like a child.
I didn’t accuse you of anything. I’ve empathised across the board. If the opening lines read as snarky they’re sure as shit balanced out by what followed.
I’m on YOUR side.
I agree with everything you say.
That only works once, the government had more than enough data to know relaxing the rules and relying on common sense would cause this situation. Are the selfish idiots mostly to blame? Of course. Is the government to blame for not stopping the idiots ruining it for the rest of us? Absolutely.
That said there's plenty of moments that are fully on the government. Trying to push people back in offices, the eat out to catch covid scheme, the tier system messaging. They've been a shambles, the furlough payments were the only thing they've done right and they still managed to cock that up for the North.
But the vast majority of people are being selfish can you imagine the outcry if the government said no 2 households are allowed to meet inside during xmas, (which probably should be the rule) It just wouldn't be accepted. Even most right-minded people I know don't seem to want to hear they can't see everyone they want to at xmas. The 'us' are in a tiny minorty, the vast majority of people will break the rules whatever they are over xmas. And when the vast majoirty of the population wants to do something, you have to blame the population, not the government.
The rest of your comments I agree with, though I think the government has been far to swayed by public opinion throughout the pandemic its seems to make its policy depending on who is complaining the loudest on any one given day. which has lead to an absolute mess. But year Furlough scheme one thing they have vaguely got right.
Too short notice to change the Xmas rules now - plans have been made, food bought, etc.