SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Big house party next door to us that's just been shut down by the police. Folk on the street arguing with one of the officers saying "you're getting too close to me, you need to maintain 2 meters".

Yes, the twat who was at the party is lecturing the copper about social distancing. Probably my least favourite person on the street though as they are the type to complain about your kids playing in the back garden at midday but are more than happy to blast music at nights and let their dog out for an hour of early morning barking.

Folk are done and they're looking for the slightest excuse to go back to doing what they used to do. Vague language from the Government gives them what they need to justify to themselves that having 30 folk over for a party is fine. It doesn't matter if the Scottish government haven't changed their message, they'll think the UK one overrides it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Herd immunity isn’t just about people getting sick. The idea of a vaccine is to give herd immunity too. If you don’t get immune after recovering (or if we don’t get an effective vaccine) then herd immunity is off the table. Which isn’t to say we’re doomed. There’s a good chance repeat infections get milder each time.

An interesting theory I heard recently is that the coronaviruses that cause the common cold were as deadly as this one when they first jumped from animal to man. But that was before we had any means of tracking a pandemic. They then evolved to be more and more benign to the point they’re at now. Causing a runny nose, at worst. SARS-COV2 could end up the same, one day.
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This sounds like good news about vaccine development

https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury...XQf9xnZZZC7krsu6iDsT1DyNso#Echobox=1588897884
 
Woodzy said:
In 12 hours time millions of people may or may not need to go into work...

Considering today’s update has been talked about for weeks, how fecking vague can this man be?
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Didn't he say that employers should be encouraging those who cannot work from home to be going back to work? I interpreted the "from tomorrow" to apply to the encouragement aspect, not an instruction for everybody to set their alarms to report in the morning. He's really talking about the sectors that could have been working already, and specifically stated "construction and manufacturing". If such firms, who weren't already continuing to work, haven't been contemplating how to return back with social distancing measures then what have they been doing these last two months?


VP89 said:
In the context of visiting parks for their "exercise" they weren't really no. Borris hasn't opened retail arms, he hasn't opened bars pubs restaurants cinemas or anything of the sort. He won't until July. So people can't move about much outside of going to parks or down to Morrisons. All across the UK there have been substantial groups taking a piss with that.

Countless bbqs, garden parties, street parties, park gatherings all over. I see it on Instagram, i see it on the news, everywhere. Now our PM allowing unlimited exercise in parks just makes something unofficially happening now an official thing. Yes it increases traffic but it's not as material as suggested.
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Today's announcement represents safe and measured first steps to take based on the fact that, for a lot of people, the absolute lockdown, as it stood, could not continue. We know from the science that respiratory viruses like common colds, flu and COVID-19 spread more in the winter months when people are indoors and/or in close, confined spaces (more so with close friends and families indoors). Allowing unlimited exercise outdoors while maintaining a 2m distance will make little difference to transmission but gives people some of the freedom and social interaction they need for their physical and mental health. Furthermore, the very youngest children are very low risk and those in years 10, 6 and reception/year 1 are the ones who most need some time back at school before September.

The Purley King said:
alright all you whinging cafeites what exactly would you do differently?
Surely we have to dip our toe in the water now?
See how it goes?
Or shall we all do a terry waite for the next year or two?
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Damned if you do and damned if you don't. What do people want? Are they prepared for the whole country and its people to financially and mentally implode by maintaining the ultra strict "stay at home" lockdown rules? The devolved governments need to step up and move to "stay alert" rather than exercising their devolved powers for political purposes.
 
Pogue Mahone said:


Fascinating thread.
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Is it really though? SK has approximately 1/6 of the U.S. population (52M to 350M) and culturally are way more disciplined. Also, their belief and value systems do not greatly differ when compared to other Koreans in general. To that, many Asian countries have virus protocols in place for decades due to SARS, MERS, etc as it is a real know threat. These key factors are not or have not been identified in the U.S until 3 months ago (the protocols, preparedness). So it's more factual preparedness from years and years and live experience compared to the U.S.

I'm not saying the reaction and preparedness of the U.S. was good as a whole, but you're comparing apples to oranges here.
 
JMack1234 said:
The 'Lockdown' has been finished for a few days. Anybody can see that roads have been getting busier and in my area people have started having their family and friends around. Which isn't cricket but it's understandable. Separating innocent family, friends, lovers etc for 6 weeks is pretty barbaric.

The modified lockdown is basically impossible police and will totally dissolve when we have a hot weekend.
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Wtf are you talking about.
 
Wibble said:
The virus isn't mutating fast and wouldn't be expected to as the moment. A vaccine might speed up mutation but vaccinate fast enough and with a high enough % of people getting the shot we should control the virus.

Herd immunity without a vaccine is either going to take a long time or result in mass death and economic destruction. The only sensible tactic is slowing down the spread to a pace that doesn't overwhelm medical services until we have a vaccine (which now seems likely)
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If we're talking strictly about the economy I think their rationale is 5% of the work force dying is still preferable to 100% of the workforce staying home. It's brutal but for them the economic impact of one or two people per department dying is preferable to the entire company closing down

Herd immunity was always more about saving the economy than saving lives
 
BluesJr said:
Wtf are you talking about.
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Because it is. Separating Human beings from their lovers, friends and family is barbaric.

It's a punishment we reserve for people whose transgression is so serious they need to be sent to prison.

I'm not saying it hasn't be necessary, but I won't clamber onto my high horse and judge anyone who fails at social distancing.
 
Dan_F said:
I’m not defending the messaging, because it’s terrible, but obviously don’t go into work tomorrow if you’re currently furloughed. The scheme hasn’t suddenly been switched off, it’ll be down to your employer to make that call. Businesses will need time to adjust their offices or decide who comes off furlough etc.

In terms of the lockdown, it’s basically finished. The only thing you can’t do is go to someone else’s house. If I wanted to meet up with a group of 10 people in a park, I could, so long as we stay two meters apart. Same with family.

There’s two uni’s where I live, which means a lot of groups of students living together. It’s already impossible to tell who does or doesn’t live in the same household, can’t see how it’ll be policed, considering people were already having BBQ’s this weekend in my local park.
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It's physically possible but it's not something the government are saying you can do. What we've been told so far is you can go outside with people from your household. Some "government source" said you can meet one other person from outside your household, and tomorrow we might find out that's from multiple households at different times, but the idea of having a small social distancing party anywhere isn't on the cards at all. It won't be until mid-July that more than 4 people can meet up in Ireland for example.

JMack1234 said:
Because it is. Separating Human beings from their lovers, friends and family is barbaric.

It's a punishment we reserve for people whose transgression is so serious they need to be sent to prison.

I'm not saying it hasn't be necessary, but I won't clamber onto my high horse and judge anyone who fails at social distancing.
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I thought you said the public were ready to have an adult conversation about it? If that conversation doesn't go the way you want it to, choosing to just ignore the bits you don't like is a bit childish, surely?
 
The Purley King said:
alright all you whinging cafeites what exactly would you do differently?
Surely we have to dip our toe in the water now?
See how it goes?
Or shall we all do a terry waite for the next year or two?
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- Regional management
- 2 weeks notice of potential changes
- 1 week notice of actual change
- Scaled dial back of furlough
- 3 day working week initially, 2 weeks max, scaling up to 5 days
- Directives to ensure non-furloughed staff working from home stay home for another 3-6 months
- Specific orders for at risk groups
- Communicated plans for care homes
- Transparent PPE figures for front line workers
- Top down messaging to ensure flexible working practices
- Industries and businesses identified and put into defined ‘buckets’ of risk
- Time commitments

Just as a quick and easy starter.
 
Kag said:
To be frank, I’m not willing to engage in this discussion with you a great deal further. I think you have a habit of rampaging around this thread with an inherently argumentative agenda, with views that aren’t particularly well thought out.
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Fair go. I’d argue I have a habit of calling out nonsense. But you do you bud. You’re as entitled to your opinion as I am.
 
JMack1234 said:
The 'Lockdown' has been finished for a few days. Anybody can see that roads have been getting busier and in my area people have started having their family and friends around. Which isn't cricket but it's understandable. Separating innocent family, friends, lovers etc for 6 weeks is pretty barbaric.

The modified lockdown is basically impossible police and will totally dissolve when we have a hot weekend.
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I don't think you know what barbaric is.

It is hard to police because of the woeful leadership and confused messaging form the government.
 
Brwned said:
I thought you said the public were ready to have an adult conversation about it? If that conversation doesn't go the way you want it to, choosing to just ignore the bits you don't like is a bit childish, surely?
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I'm not ignoring anything.

I just have enough empathy in me to understand why people fail at social distancing. I'm not endorsing it or calling for it or anything like that.

But I believe that we've being asked to make an extraordinary sacrifice and I understand how and why people fall short.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I could write that plan right now.

Not because I’m brighter than everyone in Boris’ cabinet, though that’s probably the case....

But because I’d just cherry pick from the rest of the world.

It’s half a days work for one person to lash something together that would leave the UK in better shape.
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My cat could come up with a better plan and clearer messaging than BoJo and his bunch of clowns.

Actually I just asked her and I'm fairly sure her plan is "Stay home and lick yourself". Clear and far more effective than the UK plan TBH.
 
Wibble said:
I don't think you know what barbaric is.

It is hard to police because of the woeful leadership and confused messaging form the government.
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It's subjective.

I personally believe forced separation is barbaric, you may not. We have different opinions.
 
Wibble said:
My cat could come up with a better plan and clearer messaging than BoJo and his bunch of clowns.

Actually I just asked her and I'm fairly sure her plan is "Stay home and lick yourself". Clear and far more effective than the UK plan TBH.
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I went for a third stage interview with the Nudge Unit. It Felt like such a cool gig. Effecting large societal change through tiny inputs.

Now it feels like I dodged a bullet.

This situation isn’t an accident. It’s not ineptitude. It’s designed and implemented.

So upsetting.
 
JMack1234 said:
It's subjective.

I personally believe forced separation is barbaric, you may not. We have different opinions.
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If we didn’t have phones, computers, the postal service, the ability to see people but maintain 6 feet distance etc etc then I’d agree it’s pretty barbaric.
 
So how does this work then...

My partner now has to go back to work and I have to go back to full time hours... My kids now do what?
 
My initial reaction was that the overall tone and messaging of Boris’s speech was pretty good, but people have rightly pointed out all of the contradictions within it since then. I don’t think I’ve ever seen as much open criticism of the PM on the BBC, as there was in the news special that followed.

It feels increasingly as a country as if we are being punished for a lack of initial testing and tracing infrastructure, as well as making a series of mistakes early on, and are now reaching the lockdown fatigue that so many of us reckoned on, when we really need to maintain it. We’re now trying to reconcile contradictory desires to both stay at home to reduce the spread, as well as allowing the country and economy to function as entirely necessary to not cause greater harm.

We’re completely fecked.
 
JMack1234 said:
It's subjective.

I personally believe forced separation is barbaric, you may not. We have different opinions.
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Not like you are locked in solitary confinement. Of course the whole thing is stressful but it isn't in any way barbaric for the vast majority who have many ways of staying connected.
 
fergies coat said:
You do realise that a serious economic crash will cause more death than this virus ever will? So what do we do? Stay indoors in the fear it might kill us?
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What are you basing that prediction on?

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-02/bifg-t2r020719.php

The authors cite several factors to explain this correlation between economic recession and a faster decline in mortality. In the opinion of Joan Ballester, ISGlobal researcher and first author of the study, "Periods of macroeconomic recession are associated with lower levels of pollution and fewer accidents in the workplace and on the roads. These are the factors most likely to have the greatest influence on accelerating the decline in mortality. Alcohol and tobacco consumption also fall during periods of greater austerity, as do the prevalences of sedentary lifestyles and obesity. While the underlying mechanisms are still not well established, the findings of some studies also point to the influence of other factors, such as work stress and the fact that healthy habits demand time, something less available to a person working in a full-time job."
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jymufc20 said:
Saving friends, families and countless strangers lives is barbaric ? Ok.
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I never said it wasn't necessary.... but if someone hugs their Mum I won't climb on my high horse and indulge in the po-faced indignation that others do.

Wibble said:
Not like you are locked in solitary confinement. Of course the whole thing is stressful but it isn't in any way barbaric for the vast majority who have many ways of staying connected.
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Yeah, none of which come anywhere near compensating for personal interaction.

DVG7 said:
If we didn’t have phones, computers, the postal service, the ability to see people but maintain 6 feet distance etc etc then I’d agree it’s pretty barbaric.
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All of those of are useful but are sorry replacements for human to human interaction.
 
JMack1234 said:
I never said it wasn't necessary.... but if someone hugs their Mum I won't climb on my high horse and indulge in the po-faced indignation that others do.



Yeah, none of which come anywhere near compensating for personal interaction.



All of those of are useful but are sorry replacements for human to human interaction.
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I don't see where you are going with all of this, you agree it's necessary so why continue arguing?

These are unprecedented times which are unlikely to happen again in your lifetime, not seeing your loved ones for a few months is a very small price to pay to save lives.

The other option is herd immunity and carry on like normal, but there's a good chance people's parents won't survive down this route. So arguing against it is nonsensical.
 
2mufc0 said:
I don't see where you are going with all of this, you agree it's necessary so why continue arguing?

These are unprecedented times which are unlikely to happen again in your lifetime, not seeing your loved ones for a few months is a very small prove to pay to save lives.
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That's what I'm arguing about.

It is not a 'very small price' it's a massive price that we're all paying. Especially the young, who've been absolutely stuffed by the policy the government has followed.
 
JMack1234 said:
That's what I'm arguing about.

It is not a 'very small price' it's a massive price that we're all paying. Especially the young, who've been absolutely stuffed by the policy the government has followed.
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I don't think you've weighed it all up properly then, if one of your elderly loved ones die due to contact that could have been prevented I don't think that's a small price to pay.

There are people who live away from their loved ones for months and even years for various reasons, it's manageable and imo you are making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
Stay at home read some books, work on your own personal development, work out, do house work, do some gardening, watch some films, play some video games, write/speak to friends family etc.. It really isn't a tough ask to stay put for a bit.
 
2mufc0 said:
Stay at home read some books, work on your own personal development, work out, do house work, do some gardening, watch some films, play some video games, write/speak to friends family etc.. It really isn't a tough ask to stay put for a bit.
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Yeah it's hard to to some gardening if you don't have a garden but who doesn't have a garden eh?

That's very easy to write but it's hard to do, I'm abiding by the measures under protest but I resent people trying to enforce some sort of blitz spirit. The reason we can't see our friends and families isn't a consequence of a virus, it's a consequence of a government policy. So forgive me if I don't partake in this faux-blitz spirit that has become almost compulsory. Forgive me if I don't stand on my doorstep clapping like a performing seal every Thursday and forgive the people who decide that they aren't putting up with.
 
JMack1234 said:
Yeah it's hard to to some gardening if you don't have a garden but who doesn't have a garden eh?

That's very easy to write but it's hard to do, I'm abiding by the measures under protest but I resent people trying to enforce some sort of blitz spirit. The reason we can't see our friends and families isn't a consequence of a virus, it's a consequence of a government policy. So forgive me if I don't partake in this faux-blitz spirit that has become almost compulsory. Forgive me if I don't stand on my doorstep clapping like a performing seal every Thursday and forgive the people who decide that they aren't putting up with.
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The policy is a consequence of the virus. And the UK's lock down has been far too gentle in any case.
 
JMack1234 said:
Yeah it's hard to to some gardening if you don't have a garden but who doesn't have a garden eh?

That's very easy to write but it's hard to do, I'm abiding by the measures under protest but I resent people trying to enforce some sort of blitz spirit. The reason we can't see our friends and families isn't a consequence of a virus, it's a consequence of a government policy. So forgive me if I don't partake in this faux-blitz spirit that has become almost compulsory. Forgive me if I don't stand on my doorstep clapping like a performing seal every Thursday and forgive the people who decide that they aren't putting up with.
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we don't need to partake in a "blitz-spirit" though and no one really gives a feck if we do or don't

not in my life anyway
 
Wibble said:
The policy is a consequence of the virus. And the UK's lock down has been far too gentle in any case.
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Yeah that doesn't dismiss my point.

We all know why the policy happened but it's nevertheless a policy, There's no getting away from that.
 
JMack1234 said:
Yeah it's hard to to some gardening if you don't have a garden but who doesn't have a garden eh?

That's very easy to write but it's hard to do, I'm abiding by the measures under protest but I resent people trying to enforce some sort of blitz spirit. The reason we can't see our friends and families isn't a consequence of a virus, it's a consequence of a government policy. So forgive me if I don't partake in this faux-blitz spirit that has become almost compulsory. Forgive me if I don't stand on my doorstep clapping like a performing seal every Thursday and forgive the people who decide that they aren't putting up with.
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If you don't have a garden that's one less thing you can do out of the many others.

I don't even know what this faux blitz spirit is.
You have already acknowledged the lock down is necessary, so we have to work with it. You'll be fine mate it's not a big deal, just keep busy and when it all passes it will be a very small inconvenienced period within the span of your lifetime.
 
JMack1234 said:
Yeah that doesn't dismiss my point.

We all know why the policy happened but it's nevertheless a policy, There's no getting away from that.
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Government policy is sadly a consequence of voting said government into office.

As a side note, my father in law passed away late January. His funeral was at the end of January. His children came over from New Zealand for the funeral and around February 6th, One of his kids was telling us that New Zealand was locking down and they might have to go into quarantine upon their return.
 
JMack1234 said:
Yeah that doesn't dismiss my point.

We all know why the policy happened but it's nevertheless a policy, There's no getting away from that.
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I've no idea what point you are making. The policy is needed due to the virus so the restrictions are due to the virus.
 
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