SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Thanks, isn't it just the same one we had to do at the start?


Tomorrow is the big day. I don't think i'll be going out anywhere.
It's the last version, but with the bits about staying in your comune deleted.

They've told us here we can't go to any other food shops outside the comune, because it's not essential to do so - so I'm just going to do my "motor activity" and see what happens. You may have read that there is some confusion about whether you can actually just walk for exercise, as opposed to walking to a place of exercise. Walking is all I do for exercise, and I suspect it's the same for a lot of people.
 
is it medical advice or an abundance of caution, everyone should be away from others if they have either a fever or a continuous cough

you have to hand it to piers, even when he stumbles into the correct response he still manages to be a massive cnut

To be fair to him, he’s been excellent on COVID. As he was a decade ago on gun control. Sadly he spent the intervening decade throwing tantrums about sausage rolls
 
So they changed the rules to meet the target promised which is already farcical, and they still can't hit the target based on the new criteria?

Impressive.
I’ve missed the last three pressers, but can only hope someone is holding them to account on this. The Guardian is at least leading on it. Farcical that they are considering the target as having been met and a few days on they are only testing 56% of the number of people they were supposed to be testing daily.

A classic case of (becoming obsessed with) hitting a target, but completely missing the point.
 
I am sure that you are right about that.
My experience:
Because my wife has a number of symptoms, I registered for two home test kits.
They arrived last Friday afternoon.

The first thing you have to do is to register them which I did.
We then carried out the necessary test, back of the throat and nasal passages.

You then have to phone a number to arrange for the kits to be collected.
This did not go well because it became clear that the person wasn't really sure what to do. I spent ages on the phone giving repeated information only to be told that I had to phone the next day because I had phoned after 7pm.

Anyway. I phoned up on Saturday morning and was told that it had been arranged for the kits to be collected between 8am and 4pm.
No one came to collect them.

I phoned again this morning to be told that they would definitely be collected between 8 and 4.
Yet again, they were not collected.
When I phoned again, I was told that by now, the tests would be invalid because of the time.
The person apologised and said that this was a pretty common problem.
So I will have to go online again tomorrow and order another 2 test kits.

Now. I fully appreciate that this system is new and will take a bit of time to bed in.
But. If my experience is not uncommon, I have to wonder how many of the claimed tests have actually been completed....
Contact the Guardian mate. They are on this and would like to hear from people like you: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...testing-drops-back-below-100000-daily-target?
 
It's the last version, but with the bits about staying in your comune deleted.

They've told us here we can't go to any other food shops outside the comune, because it's not essential to do so - so I'm just going to do my "motor activity" and see what happens. You may have read that there is some confusion about whether you can actually just walk for exercise, as opposed to walking to a place of exercise. Walking is all I do for exercise, and I suspect it's the same for a lot of people.
And very good exercise it is too. Better if you can push yourself by going faster or uphill to get the heart and lungs going a bit, but even moderate walking is just so much better than sitting around.
 
Contact the Guardian mate. They are on this and would like to hear from people like you: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...testing-drops-back-below-100000-daily-target?

Bizarrely, we have just received an email from the collection organisation saying that our test kits are scheduled to be collected tomorrow between 8 and 4 pm.

The same email instructs us to carry out the test and return them in THE SAME DAY...

The test kits were delivered 3 days ago and are now to be collected 4 days later...
 
I am sure that you are right about that.
My experience:
Because my wife has a number of symptoms, I registered for two home test kits.
They arrived last Friday afternoon.

The first thing you have to do is to register them which I did.
We then carried out the necessary test, back of the throat and nasal passages.

You then have to phone a number to arrange for the kits to be collected.
This did not go well because it became clear that the person wasn't really sure what to do. I spent ages on the phone giving repeated information only to be told that I had to phone the next day because I had phoned after 7pm.

Anyway. I phoned up on Saturday morning and was told that it had been arranged for the kits to be collected between 8am and 4pm.
No one came to collect them.

I phoned again this morning to be told that they would definitely be collected between 8 and 4.
Yet again, they were not collected.
When I phoned again, I was told that by now, the tests would be invalid because of the time.
The person apologised and said that this was a pretty common problem.
So I will have to go online again tomorrow and order another 2 test kits.

Now. I fully appreciate that this system is new and will take a bit of time to bed in.
But. If my experience is not uncommon, I have to wonder how many of the claimed tests have actually been completed....
This is disgusting.

As a user said above, definitely get in contact with the press.
 
Bizarrely, we have just received an email from the collection organisation saying that our test kits are scheduled to be collected tomorrow between 8 and 4 pm.

The same email instructs us to carry out the test and return them in THE SAME DAY...

The test kits were delivered 3 days ago and are now to be collected 4 days later...
Well organised then.
 
This is disgusting.

As a user said above, definitely get in contact with the press.

If I thought it would make any difference, I would.

But when you have a government run by compulsive liars and who have zero interest in being confronted by facts, I would just be wasting my time and patience.
 


It serves no purpose but I like this graphic.
 
US Intelligence report says China mislead the world on the severity of Covid-19 and hoarded supplies.

 
And very good exercise it is too. Better if you can push yourself by going faster or uphill to get the heart and lungs going a bit, but even moderate walking is just so much better than sitting around.
You're right, and it's all hills here - there's no flat walking. It's been awful not being able to even walk for half a mile.
 
It's the last version, but with the bits about staying in your comune deleted.

They've told us here we can't go to any other food shops outside the comune, because it's not essential to do so - so I'm just going to do my "motor activity" and see what happens. You may have read that there is some confusion about whether you can actually just walk for exercise, as opposed to walking to a place of exercise. Walking is all I do for exercise, and I suspect it's the same for a lot of people.

I was told you can go as far as you like under your own steam. Supposedly police will be leaving you alone if you are obviously exercising, which is how it was before. I'm also interested in whether you can go and sit in the parks for a couple of hours or not. They're reopening but nobody is sure what you can do there.

We don't have any specific rules here but smaller Comunes around us have banned non-residents. They're all isolated mountain villages and don't want people bringing the virus in. Fair enough, but it adds further to the confusion.
 
Of course misfortune and timing matters but even then the points that I made affect both of these things, being a large dense international city will increase the chances that the virus enters the city's walls and when it's inside density, populaiton and public transport traffic will allow the virus to spread quickier and in larger pool. If you compare Milan and Rome subway ridership, Milan has a higher traffic, from a business standpoint Milan is also Italy's heart and is more connected to the rest of Europe, it has three times Rome's density and they roughly have the same population.
If you compare Western European countries to Eastern European countries, you have to look at which places have actually been hit hard, it's easy to see why they have been hit before lockdowns and why it spreaded that quickly in their areas. It's not entire countries that have been affected or are doing badly.

Now your general point about misfortune and timing is relevant if we use Mulhouse as an example, it's a particular international event that caused their cluster, that's misfortune and bad timing but for the majority of cases, they were simply in the most vulnerable areas, which doesn't mean that similar cities in other countries will necessarily be affected, Moscow being an example.

If all you're saying is that being a large, dense, international city increases the chances of the virus spreading, then I agree. This post seemed to go a bit further than that by saying that it is the explanatory factor for any differences observed across areas:

@Revan, you aren't looking closely enough, I don't really like these maps because they don't give you an accurate or useful image. The answer is what London, Paris(Iles-De-France), Milan(Lombardia), Madrid or Barcelona have in common? I could add New York and it is even more obvious. It's not entire countries that have been hit but wealthy, densely populated and very international regions. They also all have in common that public transportation is key for all of them.

Maybe I read into it!

London has a similar population density to Amsterdam but has 2x as many cases proportionately, or 3x as many deaths. Does international travel and public transport explain that away? I'm not so sure. San Francisco has more than 10x fewer proportionate cases than New York, despite being the 5th biggest US city for public transport use, lots of international travel, and a dense area on its own (higher than e.g. London). There's lots of examples. Personally I think any kind of summary analysis is missing a big chunk of the story.

In any case, it does serve as a better summary assessment than the initial UK idea that Spain and Italy were suffering because of the cheek-kissing culture.
 
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Pompeo says that there is enormous evidence that the virus has originated in Wuhan’s lab. No idea if he is just playing to Trump’s tune, or something has changed since he dismissed the possibility.
 
Pompeo says that there is enormous evidence that the virus has originated in Wuhan’s lab. No idea if he is just playing to Trump’s tune, or something has changed since he dismissed the possibility.

I'd say they have nothing

Or at least only something that they think means something. No doubt just stirring up a bit of xenophobia to try to distract from how terrible he has been.
 
I'd say they have nothing

Or at least only something that they think means something. No doubt just stirring up a bit of xenophobia to try to distract from how terrible he has been.

It might be only the initial lies and withholding of evidence and wetmarket origin, but China can blame them selves, not letting WHO conduct research on the origins of the virus, and not allowing any independent international review of Chinas response. My guess is this will become an eternal conspiracy theory, due to Chinas nonwillingness. They owe the world an explanation and they refuse, so any conspiracy theories is due to their own dictatorial behaviour.

Edit: just read that the report says that while China witheld information and toned down how dangerous the cirus was, they hoarded medical equipment and PPE at the same time.
 
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It might be only the initial lies and withholding of evidence and wetmarket origin, but China can blame them selves, not letting WHO conduct research on the origins of the virus, and not allowing any independent international review of Chinas response. My guess is this will become an eternal conspiracy theory, due to Chinas nonwillingness. They owe the world an explanation and they refuse, so any conspiracy theories is due to their own dictatorial behaviour.

Edit: just read that the report says that while China witheld information and toned down how dangerous the cirus was, they hoarded medical equipment and PPE at the same time.

What are you talking about? Which informations have they withheld? And there is no evidence of a wetmarket origin, it's nearly impossible to prove it under the best circumstances, that's why we still don't now the exact origin of Ebola or things like Hantavirus, we know which regions at macro-level but that's it. US politicians are clearly responding to the conspiracies from the far right who seem to think that these labs were secret.
 
At one point, the secretary of state appeared confused over whether he was claiming the Sars-CoV-2 virus (which causes the Covid-19 disease) was deliberately engineered or escaped as the result of a lab accident.

“Look, the best experts so far seem to think it was manmade. I have no reason to disbelieve that at this point,” he said.

But when he was reminded that US intelligence had issued a formal statement noting the opposite – that the scientific consensus was that the virus was not manmade or genetically modified – Pompeo replied: “That’s right. I agree with that.”
 
US Intelligence report says China mislead the world on the severity of Covid-19 and hoarded supplies.



If history has taught us anything then whatever follows 'US Intelligence says' should be highly doubted. They'll will come up with anything to further their agenda and their population will lap it up.

Though it is known the China did not report the severity of the virus in the early months, the notion that they stockpiled on supplies is pretty weird to suggest given that major countries would've figured that out before as imports from them were dropping.I think this is just diversionary to suggest the US couldn't get supplied earlier, like many people rightfully blame them for, because China wasn't supplying them.
 
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Pompeo says that there is enormous evidence that the virus has originated in Wuhan’s lab. No idea if he is just playing to Trump’s tune, or something has changed since he dismissed the possibility.

The bible alludes to enormous evidence of Jesus and God but nobody has ever seen him.
I call bullshit.
If any American GOP person told me it was raining outside I'd look for myself.

I wish social media didnt exist so I dont have to hear about the stupid cnuts day in and day out.
 
@Revan, you aren't looking closely enough, I don't really like these maps because they don't give you an accurate or useful image. The answer is what London, Paris(Iles-De-France), Milan(Lombardia), Madrid or Barcelona have in common? I could add New York and it is even more obvious. It's not entire countries that have been hit but wealthy, densely populated and very international regions. They also all have in common that public transportation is key for all of them.

You can go even more detailed than that. It's now thought the Atalanta v Valencia game on 19th February is the spark that created the storm in Italy and Spain. Bergamo (Atalanta's hometown) is a big Milan commuter town and quickly became the worst affected place in Europe after that, and the virus travelled back to Spain with the Valencia team and it's fans.

Same thing is speculated to have happened in Liverpool with the Madrid game.

I wonder if we can eventually trace back to specific events in those other cities.
 
Is anyone else kinda scared how easily freedoms were taken away from people? Of course it’s the right thing to beat this virus now, but it gives me an uneasy feeling how very fragile our ‘freedoms’ really are.
 
If I thought it would make any difference, I would.

But when you have a government run by compulsive liars and who have zero interest in being confronted by facts, I would just be wasting my time and patience.
I hope you and your wife are OK. It seems like a shambolic system, quite honestly.
 
Is anyone else kinda scared how easily freedoms were taken away from people? Of course it’s the right thing to beat this virus now, but it gives me an uneasy feeling how very fragile our ‘freedoms’ really are.

Not at all, people have largely done whatever they have wanted. Everything has been voluntary for the most part.

In the UK people are still going for picnics and cycling in groups and whatever else they fancy. In America people are going out to protest in large groups about the fact they’re not allowed to congregate in large groups and they’re getting no push back from the law.

People still have their liberties and ultimately it’s people using their liberties, deciding to follow expert advice and stay at home.
 


My favourite tweet of the day, who needs alternative positions in science!
 
Is anyone else kinda scared how easily freedoms were taken away from people? Of course it’s the right thing to beat this virus now, but it gives me an uneasy feeling how very fragile our ‘freedoms’ really are.
Not really. It's actually encouraging people are willing to temporarily sacrifice their freedom and habits to help others. I thought this was more common in Asian countries but it appears that Europeans can do that well too.
 
What are you talking about? Which informations have they withheld? And there is no evidence of a wetmarket origin, it's nearly impossible to prove it under the best circumstances, that's why we still don't now the exact origin of Ebola or things like Hantavirus, we know which regions at macro-level but that's it. US politicians are clearly responding to the conspiracies from the far right who seem to think that these labs were secret.

What is your problem? Is it hard to read? Did the chinese authorities go after their own doctors for fun when they tred to warn people? 8 doctors was prosecuted in december. There are Chinese studies that showed there is high propability that the virus originated in the wetmarket. The wetmarket in Wuhan was closed 1.January due to 40 cases coming from there. Is it far-right movement to doubt China now? Like they are so holy and fair to the world? You must be kidding me. Wake up. I don't trust the US, I do not trust Russia, and I do not trust CHINA. I am not basing my thoughts here on just the US report, I have not read it all neither, since most of it is old news.

China got their first cases early december. Local authorities hid symptoms in data system. Doctors warned of disease in december, were arrested. 2. january National TV tells of the 8 doctors punished for rumour spreading. 14.January Chinas health dept. director warns internally that they could be facing a pandemic with human to human transmission. 15.January. Same person now says no human to human transmission. 5-17 January, no new cases! Later there was disclosed there was 3000 cases in this time period. 20. jan Jinping warns chinese, says transfer between humans.

Also of course things are hard to prove, when no one is allowed to investigate. It is like with the downed airplane in Iran and other similar stories. Authoritan governments wants to control the truth so their truth can be told.

But hey, anyone disagreeing with you are propably extremists...