Hospital still have beds, they're not at max capacity yet. However this is on the basis of them suspending all other hospital treatment (other than emergency patients that don't have the virus).
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Hospital still have beds, they're not at max capacity yet. However this is on the basis of them suspending all other hospital treatment (other than emergency patients that don't have the virus).
Under normal circumstances, sure; however, COVID19 can be rather deadly.
If you are sleeping on the hospital floor with 1,000 other people and have no access to oxygen or a ventilator, I get that your chances of survival are slim.
If you are receiving the right level of healthcare you really should survive it, bar a very unfortunate 1 or 2%.
You're getting confused a bit, they're only admitting very seriously ill patients (mainly those struggling to breath). The rate of admission vs the death rate will have proportionally high figures because of their selection of those being critically ill. There are a high number surviving and leaving hospital also.
You make it sound like we're admitting all with symptoms of the disease, which as we know the majority recover from it and don't even touch a hospital.
Not much that can be done at the moment even with the best healthcare, just plug them into oxygen and buy some time for their body to fight on its own.
Oxygen and ventilators haven't run out so there's not much more the hospitals can do for admitted patients.
Maybe we are lucky in the sense that we don't have many critically ill patients but it really should be around 5-10% of the positive cases.
Also if we have all that extra capacity maybe we could give some of the older infected people in care homes some proper medical attention?
Twitter says it does not currently see evidence that the UK government has tried to manipulate coronavirus conversations using fake accounts.
It comes after claims began circulating on social media implying the Department of Health and Social Care was behind a network of Twitter accounts pretending to be NHS staff.
These accounts, which were allegedly posting in support of the government, appear to have been deleted.
The Department of Health tweeted that the claims were “categorically false”.
Twitter adds that it “will remove any pockets of smaller coordinated attempts to distort or inorganically influence the conversation”.
The BBC also currently has no evidence to support the suggestion these allegedly fake accounts had anything to do with the UK government.
It comes after claims began circulating on social media implying the Department of Health and Social Care was behind a network of Twitter accounts pretending to be NHS staff.
These accounts, which were allegedly posting in support of the government, appear to have been deleted.
The Department of Health tweeted that the claims were “categorically false”.
Twitter adds that it “will remove any pockets of smaller coordinated attempts to distort or inorganically influence the conversation”.
The BBC also currently has no evidence to support the suggestion these allegedly fake accounts had anything to do with the UK government.
And this lot was trusted to deliver brexit.
Piss up in a brewery springs to mind!
I don't get the need for the whataboutery on this point - if they need emergency assistance, then they're going to hospital. These field hospitals aren't some kind of hotel. They have capacity because they're admitting only patients who need breathing assistance. When they open up hospitals to carry out normal procedures, which they aren't doing currently, then they will need that capacity quickly as a second peak happens.
There's no what aboutery. The whole point of opening up these field hospitals is to deal with the excess strain that COVID-19 poses. If we have so much excess capacity that the hospital is pretty much empty, then we are probably being too picky about who we admit.
We really should only need to pick and choose who goes into hospital when we are already operating at maximum. If we are not at maximum, we should relax those selection procedures so even more people can have adequate medical attention and we can save more lives.
The Nightingale should be at least half-full. If not with already seriously ill people then at least with those who are at the highest risk of being seriously ill.
The only time our hospitals should ever remain empty is when we have 0 deaths from COVID-19.
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A very good friend of mine that is only 46 Years old was scheduled to have surgery as his Cancerous brain tumour had returned. This got cancelled due to the lockdown and Covid outbreak.
I found out yesterday that the tumour Is now inoperable and his wife has had to get the palliative care team involved as he has gone down hill the last few weeks and can barely stand on his own and has virtually no short term memory.
Covid19 won’t kill him but him and thousands of others like him will have their life expectancies cut short because of it.
Huge amounts of whataboutery. We are being picky about who we admit? If ever we need an armchair commentator to the NHS then we'll let you know. It's simple to understand why we have capacity, a combination of moving through the first wave of cases, with social distancing impacting both cases and admissions means the capacity is currently there. In principle, as there is no vaccine, saving lives is about the individuals reaction to the virus. They're admitting those that need oxygen support which is the right approach, if you don't need to go into hospital - then it's pretty clear to avoid it altogether.
The Nightingale shouldn't be full if it doesn't need it to be, if there are no cases and hospitals have capacity then they should be there. To call on the success of the field hospitals now is foolish, and even more foolish to measure its success on how many people are in them. The reality is that their intended purpose is for when we open up the hospitals back to normal operating policy for normal admissions (Cancer treatment, transplants, Outpatients etc).
That's horrible news, sorry to hear it. My partner lost her cousin to the same thing a few years back, and the deterioration part is the worst bit to watch.
Taking advance of an awful situation but to good to pass up as rude as it is
What happened with deaths in Sweden today? Yesterday was 40, today is 185, and more people in the ICU than yesterday as well. 
EDIT: Looking at their data over time it could be a case of the way they're reporting their data.
EDIT: Looking at their data over time it could be a case of the way they're reporting their data.
Come on now, that's sales and purchasing 101. Anybody with anything to sell will be trying to contact them. That doesn't mean that 99% of it won't be junk and not fit for purpose. Buying for an organisation as big as the NHS is a complex business, they can't be dealing with local businesses supplying bits and pieces that all need to checked over and sent where it's needed. If they can find it in bulk then that's obviously the way to go and what they have done.
Ok but let’s say your source is China. The world and his dog will be fighting over stock. What’s plan B?
That is grim, really sorry to hear about your pal.
Awful. I’m sure there will be countless knock on effects for people ill with other things.
sorry to hear about your friend
What happened with deaths in Sweden today? Yesterday was 40, today is 185, and more people in the ICU than yesterday as well.
EDIT: Looking at their data over time it could be a case of the way they're reporting their data.
Just lack of weekend reporting? Look at the daily deaths graph here.
When there is 900 deaths a day (not counting the extra possible 50% from care homes), I question everything.
I'm not calling into question the success of the Nightingale. I'm calling into question why it is there and it is not being used. Did we build it for the fun of it?
I also don't get why we are waiting to 'reopen' the hospital for normal admissions when we could use the Nightingale for COVID-19 patients and let the hospitals resume their normal operating policy now. Why delay treatment for cancer/transplant patients and such when there is clearly capacity to take the COVID-19 patients elsewhere?
I’m very confused about this Nightingale confusion. It’s not an actual new hospital, it’s a building that has been repurposed. It doesn’t have anywhere near the resources as a proper hospital, it was there for exceptional circumstances.
Your raw material will still probably come from the same place, regardless who makes it.
But these are already exceptional circumstances no? I mean, how much more exceptional does it need to get before it is used?
That is what I don't get.
Yeah that's the graph that lead me to think it's a reporting thing. Today isn't on the graph yet and will be higher that everything they've seen before.
That was my understanding yeah.
Well, from my P.O.V, considering some experts were stating that we'd have 200,000 deaths from covid19, the government obviously planned for a worst case scenario and also I think they've been surprised by how well-behaved most of society has been with this lockdown. They probably thought that by now, we'd be notching up 2,000 deaths a day (don't forget, another expert felt that by 17/04, the UK would notch 2,492 deaths or even 3,492, I can't remember the exact number. Either way, it was more than 2 (sorry, mistake/typo) x more than what we actually did hit.
You were insinuating that the rate of death it's down to poor healthcare from the NHS and that by filling the capacity of the field hospitals will somehow reduce this rate of death.
It's an exhibition centre, not a hospital. The expertise and the equipment are at the hospital, the priority to put all patients should be there. Field hospitals are going to be for patients that are through the worst of the virus. The delays are pretty much down to moving all available staff, not capacity, onto dealing with the virus, my other half included. Used to be working in the community and called back immediately to be on the frontline. However your comment in bold kinda summises it fully enough for me.
Plan B is make sure you have a backup supply chain in your home country that can meet surge requirements. Nobody did that though, not just the UK.
The world and his dog is fighting over stock from China and the media is taking great pleasure in printing it on every spare column inch. So far i haven't seen much to suggest they've been unable to match demand, most of the world has been turning to them when their own supply chains have let them down. They definitely bailed Italy and Spain out in the early days.
Whatever happens it's clear that, for example, we couldn't have 50 different labs all over the country administering tests, or 100 different factories manufacturing ventilator valves. The quality control would be impossible and it's not something we can afford to make mistakes on.
They're exhibition centres, just big pieces of space. I had a stand booking at the ExCel on the weekend they decided to purpose it into a field hospital.
So what you're telling me is that Nightingale is not fit for purpose and it is rather more like an aftercare centre? What is your message here?
Edit: And even if it is just an aftercare centre (which I can accept), why is it empty? Are there not a lot of patients who are recovering? Are patients getting sent home straight from hospital when they get better instead? Things just do not make sense about the purpose of the Nightingale.
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It's not even for ICU patients is it?
Italian PM has just announced distancing and masks will be compulsory until a vaccine or a treatment is found. I hope he has a plan for where all these masks will come from.
You can't read. They're all exhibition centres, and Nightingale is a field hospital. It's designed as a way to deal with the overflow, if you have a capacity at a hospital with expertise and equipment then why would you go to a field hospital? Do we have to go down the route of explaining what a field hospital is for you?
Nope, a field hospital is not an intensive care unit.
I just got information from my bro in law that it looks like it's getting better. He said down 40% in his hospital. He thinks the virus is changing too. Maybe not so deadly as before.
That latter sentence would be massive news if it pans out.
According to the nurse in this video the patients arrive straight from intensive care, are intubated and their job is to bring them on from that point to get them breathing on their own.
I'm guessing their job is to relieve pressure on intensive care after the patient starts to recover a bit?
Early in the crisis a work colleague was infected and within two days was in hospital having an operation on his throat to help his breathing. I do not think a Nightingale hospital is going to help cases like that.
I suspect the hospitals get the patients to a certain level of health before they get sent to the Nightingale. They probably also allow a certain amount of flexibility in future planning. If the proverbial really did hit the fan and the hospitals really didn't have any capacity, at least they would have somewhere for the ambulances to drop off.
Did he mention how it's changing?