SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

UnrelatedPsuedo said:
The government is being exposed for the blunt instrument that it is on the education front.

Honestly I’d have expected it to reach out to television networks. Have a few STEM and PE tv programs rolled out, just 2 or 3 a week. Popular faces of tv rolled into the odd home existence.

- A science program to show 5-10 year olds how to make bouncy balls
- A popular footballer talking about keepy uppies
- An athlete talking about keeping fit and how walking is important
- Someone talking about phases of the moon, advising kids to look out the window every night.
- A musician talking about song structure, beats, how to play an instrument

I’m not saying the National Curriculum isn’t important.

But there’s also a chasm between Nothing, and 5 Days a week school.

1 Day a week seems to be waaaaay to close to the latter, than a sensible starting point.

Shit, weaponise this thing. Math and English is hard at a distance. Breed creativity. Get supermarkets selling 8 colour paint and paper at £1. Have a fcuking National Rainbow Unicorn painting competition. Collate responses. Put them on tv. Have a website that cycles through creations every 10 seconds. Get kids to record 15 seconds to a camera. Put that somewhere. Have some basic cooking shows on. Every kid should leave this with the ability to make an Omlette. Right now there are 14 year olds that can’t boil a fcuking egg. Have understandable 13 year olds read 5 year olds books on an approved .gov YouTube channel. Let kids help each other. Give them a structure outside of ‘When will school open mum’.

You can bring people together, help out parents and stop kids feeling isolated without gambling anyone’s health.

Trying to use existing structures right now is just so painfully stupid. Like, blood boiling stupidity.

I don’t need to see someone walk in their garden. I really don’t. I don’t care about it. It doesn’t help me. It doesn’t really help society. It reduces us all to look at one persons existence. It’s looking through the wrong end of the telescope. It’s generating ad revenue online and letting people consume more nonsensical shite.
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You seem to have missed the most important point of going to a school for primary school kids (and arguably secondary school kids too). It’s not about STEM or PE, boiling eggs, or fecking unicorn painting competitions. It’s about learning how to interact with their peers and starting to establish themselves as individuals outside the family unit. No amount of youtube tutorials will fix any of that.

Parents and schools are working together to keep education ticking over and there’s a ton of resources out there to help them already. More resources than you could possibly ever use.

None of that will stop the inevitable harm to their development of the ongoing social isolation so long as the schools stay closed. There’s no easy answer here, as nobody knows how big a factor schools play in spreading infection. Once we get an idea about that, getting kids back to school should be a priority. Everything else is a poor substitute.
 
sammsky1 said:
My message to your brother in law would be that his skillset will very much be in demand once we're out of this, albeit, he may have to rebuild his business upto its former level. I'm desperate for a haircut, and know many of my friends and family are in the same place (social media is full of men gradually looking like cavemen). Once lockdown measures are able to be relaxed in a way that businesses can operate using social distancing etc, barber shops will have record business given the backlog and people preferring shorter cuts in summer months. I predict it will be a nightmare being able to get an appointment.

Also, its very good that he cares for his employee's but that can't be at the cost of his family's basic needs. Also, isnt that what the Governments furlough scheme was about?
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Why doesn’t any lad not have his own set of clippers? I got a pair at Christmas costing 20 quid and they’ve given me a decent enough number 4 all over. Unless all you lads are looking for fancy designs and shit, self cut at home. Hell my wife even learned from YouTube how to cut her own hair and it looks good
 
11101 said:
That's kind of how it is where I am, in Italy. There are police and army patrolling, and helicopters often overhead. There are regular checkpoints where you're expected to produce a document that justifies why you need to be outside. It's up to a €5000 fine/jail time if your reason isnt good enough. I go to the supermarket once a week and that's the only time I go outside. The streets are deserted.

My entire family is in the UK, as are most of my friends. Going for long walks and runs every day is not lockdown. It's also a worry when you see how slowly Italy's cases are dropping despite such drastic measures.
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What are the theories for the slow decline in new cases? Essential workers infecting each other? Slowly working its way through households that already have cases? People sneaking out of home to socialise?

It’s really odd that you can have such a total lockdown yet still have a relatively high number of new cases every day. Odd and concerning.
 
golden_blunder said:
was thinking about this the other day. How on earth could you enforce it even if you limit the amount of people in? Drunk people gravitate to each other. That’s before we talk about the pokey toilets and disgusting bathroom habits. They’d be a hive for all kinds of virus. Safer getting the cans in
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There is also an assumption that social centres of gathering would be able to remain profitable with limited number restrictions. Restaurants generally require between 50%-65% table occupancy over an entire week to break even, and profit comes only after that. Am sure similar will apply to pubs.

If you insist every other table is vacant, how are these businesses meant to operate under 'limited numbers' restrictions? They'll end up increasing their debt and quickly bankrupt themselves. Unless the Government agree to make up the shortfall, I'm not sure how it work. Likewise, how long can a Government keep taking on debt, or how will businesses ever pay it back unless Government agrees to a 'Debt Jubilee'.
 
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711 said:
Your last point is interesting. The UK does seem to be tracking Italy in terms of deaths, give or take a few, so how can that be when Italy's lockdown is supposedly so much more severe? I've seen theories about smoking, hugging, age demographics but it still makes you wonder whether the more severe lockdown is actually achieving anything. For the record I'm in favour of enforcing the lock down rules, but I'm not a hundred percent sure I'm right.
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The UK was tracking Italy on the upslope but i think it looks to be deviating now. Italy had a 5 day period of reporting over 800 deaths each day but within a week dropped back down to 500-600 and has been slowly declining since. The UK first broke 800 deaths 12 days ago and only yesterday reported 888. The descent from the peak is taking longer.

This is also reflected in the case numbers, where there were 11 days between Italy's first and last days breaking 5,000 new cases. The UK is on 15 days and counting. That is even more worrying when you consider the UK is testing ~20,000 people per day and Italy is testing almost 70,000.


Leroy The Red said:
Yeah British and Italian police are very different. We police by consent over here. The idea that those policies will be adopted here is naive, especially as the vast majority of people are respecting the rules of the lockdown.

Why should people not be allowed to go for a run or walk everyday? As for the last bit, maybe that tells you that regimental lockdowns aren’t the be and end all answer like a lot of people seem to think it is.
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It depends what you mean by respecting the rules. Is activity reduced? Yes. Is it reduced by as much as countries with true lockdowns? No. Italy and Spain have reduced their activity in parks and outdoor spaces by ~90% compared to the UK at 37%.
 
golden_blunder said:
Why doesn’t any lad not have his own set of clippers? I got a pair at Christmas costing 20 quid and they’ve given me a decent enough number 4 all over. Unless all you lads are looking for fancy designs and shit, self cut at home. Hell my wife even learned from YouTube how to cut her own hair and it looks good
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Yea i got a pair for 50 euro in argos and i just shave my head bare once every two months. I have saved a fortune.

If you are going to buy a clippers, get a good one. Around 40 euros and upwards.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You seem to have missed the most important point of going to a school for primary school kids (and arguably secondary school kids too). It’s not about STEM or PE, boiling eggs, or fecking unicorn painting competitions. It’s about learning how to interact with their peers and starting to establish themselves as individuals outside the family unit. No amount of youtube tutorials will fix any of that.

Parents and schools are working together to keep education ticking over and there’s a ton of resources out there to help them already. More resources than you could possibly ever use.

None of that will stop the inevitable harm to their development of the ongoing social isolation so long as the schools stay closed. There’s no easy answer here, as nobody knows how big a factor schools play in spreading infection. Once we get an idea about that, getting kids back to school should be a priority. Everything else is a poor substitute.
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Pogue, you’re wrong.

That’s a very limiting view that builds in problems from the start.

I’m not even vaguely suggesting that anything can replace 20-30 kids mingling, seeing peers succeed and fail, finding a place in life, working out what they’re good at, bad at, interested or disinterested in.

My essay worded point is : The government is failing children.

If it seeks to think ‘How do we return to normal’... they waste weeks, months.

You also ignore the fact that many parents wait for top level government advice. Many schools are setting ‘schoolwork’ that takes under an hour a day. It’s perfunctory, justify an existence rote learning useless shite.

You can’t say that school is about self-determination at the same time you’re criticising my suggestions that kids should be learning things at home that they can’t learn in school. Breed independence. Foster a desire to learn things.

The settings are INSANELY different, why is the curriculum the same?

4 weeks in, schools and kids have become pawns in the story of ‘Opening up the country’.

Design a fcuking system that would allow them to spend 6 of the next 10 months at home.
 
golden_blunder said:
Why doesn’t any lad not have his own set of clippers? I got a pair at Christmas costing 20 quid and they’ve given me a decent enough number 4 all over. Unless all you lads are looking for fancy designs and shit, self cut at home. Hell my wife even learned from YouTube how to cut her own hair and it looks good
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I’ll go further and ask why people are getting their haircut
 
Pogue Mahone said:
What are the theories for the slow decline in new cases? Essential workers infecting each other? Slowly working its way through households that already have cases? People sneaking out of home to socialise?

It’s really odd that you can have such a total lockdown yet still have a relatively high number of new cases every day. Odd and concerning.
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Two or three things.

- Firstly the government were furious that a newspaper broke news of the Lombardy lockdown ahead of time, so thousands of people fled to the other regions and took the virus with them. 2 days later the whole country was closed.

- It was always expected that it takes about a month for a new case to flush its way through an average household. Father has up to 14 days to show symptoms and infect grandma, who then might take another 14 days to show up before she infects son or brother who for whatever reason didn't get it from father at the beginning. It seems to be that it doesn't spread very effectively, but if you are exposed to it in the slightest it is extremely good at taking hold, if that makes sense.

- It has also been reducing more slowly in the South in areas that hadn't seen such devastating effects to begin with, and where people were not taking the rules as seriously.


Even in Wuhan where there was no question of how strong their lockdown was, it was 5 or 6 weeks before they started to see a consistent decline. Italy is just coming up to 6 weeks.
 
golden_blunder said:
A simple haircut always makes me personally feel better, I’d imagine some would feel the same. Generally I let my beard go to shit though
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Hair plus 6 weeks is rough. A cut feels great.

Hair plus 10 weeks is great. Already thinking ‘How long can I grow this’.

Hair at 16 weeks you’re so over the moon it’s so low maintenance.

Edit : Obviously I look like a long haired tw4t right now.
 
11101 said:
The UK was tracking Italy on the upslope but i think it looks to be deviating now. Italy had a 5 day period of reporting over 800 deaths each day but within a week dropped back down to 500-600 and has been slowly declining since. The UK first broke 800 deaths 12 days ago and only yesterday reported 888. The descent from the peak is taking longer.

This is also reflected in the case numbers, where there were 11 days between Italy's first and last days breaking 5,000 new cases. The UK is on 15 days and counting. That is even more worrying when you consider the UK is testing ~20,000 people per day and Italy is testing almost 70,000.
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It's a bit early to say for deaths but I fear you're right, it would be logical to expect that to be the case.

I don't place as much importance on tests, we test fewer but generally with cause, which will give a higher percentage. We do have a huge unknown in the UK though, how many deaths there have been in care homes. There has also been hardly any testing there from what I can gather, whether those with symptoms or staff.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I’ll go further and ask why people are getting their haircut
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I generally like to look good and presentable. Now i am not narcissistic. I just like to have my hair cut and be shaven.

For some jobs this is a necessity like a lawyer or accountant.
 
golden_blunder said:
Why doesn’t any lad not have his own set of clippers? I got a pair at Christmas costing 20 quid and they’ve given me a decent enough number 4 all over. Unless all you lads are looking for fancy designs and shit, self cut at home. Hell my wife even learned from YouTube how to cut her own hair and it looks good
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Younger blokes will mostly go back to barbers, although not all, but the number of older fellas going will plummet. Why drive or walk to the barbers and sit waiting your turn to pay £8, or more in the south, when the missus can do it in five minutes flat? A lot of blokes have learned to do their own of course.
 
11101 said:
Two or three things.

- Firstly the government were furious that a newspaper broke news of the Lombardy lockdown ahead of time, so thousands of people fled to the other regions and took the virus with them. 2 days later the whole country was closed.

- It was always expected that it takes about a month for a new case to flush its way through an average household. Father has up to 14 days to show symptoms and infect grandma, who then might take another 14 days to show up before she infects son or brother who for whatever reason didn't get it from father at the beginning. It seems to be that it doesn't spread very effectively, but if you are exposed to it in the slightest it is extremely good at taking hold, if that makes sense.

- It has also been reducing more slowly in the South in areas that hadn't seen such devastating effects to begin with, and where people were not taking the rules as seriously.


Even in Wuhan where there was no question of how strong their lockdown was, it was 5 or 6 weeks before they started to see a consistent decline. Italy is just coming up to 6 weeks.
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Yeah, that all makes sense.

Is that what you’re seeing geographically? Recent case numbers driven by regions which don’t have the sort of stringent lockdowns you mentioned above?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, that all makes sense.

Is that what you’re seeing geographically? Recent case numbers driven by regions which don’t have the sort of stringent lockdowns you mentioned above?
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The whole country is locked down to the same extent in theory. The difference is in how seriously the residents take the restrictions. The North was hit hard and i think it's possible by now to say nobody is more than 2 degrees of separation from a death. Here within a few days everybody was following the rules. In the South even now there are stories of parties in apartment blocks and things like that.

Cases in the North have been declining since March but there are some regions in the South that haven't really seen any improvement at all, but it's orders of magnitude less. A bad day there is to report 100 cases, whereas a good day in Lombardy right now would be to go under 1,000.
 
golden_blunder said:
Why doesn’t any lad not have his own set of clippers? I got a pair at Christmas costing 20 quid and they’ve given me a decent enough number 4 all over. Unless all you lads are looking for fancy designs and shit, self cut at home. Hell my wife even learned from YouTube how to cut her own hair and it looks good
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I've never had anything fancy, but the idea of some shave your own head situation, even grade 4, which must be the least severe, is too much for me!
 
RK said:
Either the teams don't exist, weren't fit for purpose, or weren't listened to.
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I cannot make a blanket statement for Europe, but that was certainly what happened in Portugal, and most likely the vast majority of Europe.

To me, doctors are to blame, they're the main culprits. Only a subset of them of course (mostly Public Health specialists, but not only), and a few other related categories of professionals.
 
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TheGame said:
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Sweden's numbers are shocking when you take in to account how few people live in it compared to the density of the UK. If anything it's evidence that they should've had a lock down, surely?
 
kpk
Carolina Red said:


Also, less than 2 weeks after announcing a ”work or home” order, my governor decides to do this...
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That beach is massive. The Florida mention in the headline threw me.
 
Adisa said:
Can't this feckers decide on a strategy?
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To be fair (shudder) i don't think it'll be a change of strategy but they'll want to wrap the opening back up around a strategy they'd like to sell as a working one.

The UK could not have initially done what Sweden did as i don't think we'd have been as responsible, especially with bars open. Opening up from this a stricter position seems to me a lot more controlled as societal preparations have now been made.

Let's open up gradually and we'll be able to see if behaviour has adapted to not need full enforcement.
 
Smores said:
To be fair (shudder) i don't think it'll be a change of strategy but they'll want to wrap the opening back up around a strategy they'd like to sell as a working one.

The UK could not have initially done what Sweden did as i don't think we'd have been as responsible, especially with bars open. Opening up from this a stricter position seems to me a lot more controlled as societal preparations have now been made.

Let's open up gradually and we'll be able to see if behaviour has adapted to not need full enforcement.
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Nobody can do what Sweden did without a much higher mortality (which is pretty high to begin with). Because nobody has 50% of their population living in single person accommodation.
 
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