Yeah but the US is led by a madman who is thinking of nothing bar how quickly he can get his businesses open again. I wouldn’t use the US as a barometer
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Let me just tell you this is not true in the slightest.If you lived here you would know it. I've never seen people break or try to cheat their way around rules as much as you see here.
The roads are total mayhem and people are constantly smoking inside public buildings etc which really grinds me gears and that is just the start of it. It's 100% about enforcement of the law here. If a law is not strictly enforced then it may as well not exist as people would have no respect for it whatsoever.
In the case of the virus, its a mixture of people having memory of past outbreaks and so choosing to take it seriously themselves (wearing masks, social distancing) and the measures against the virus being enforced seriously. Your point about it being easier to lock down is a good one because like you say a couple of blokes at the complex gate can lock down hundreds.
Edit: Apologies I see that you lived in a Chinese city before so its interesting how are experiences are totally different. You must surely have seen the things that I mentioned. Like ignoring rules on smoking indoors and driving like maniacs?
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Bunnings is a DIY store.
Scott Morrison is the PM. He likes the nickname SCOMO but everyone now calls him Scotty From Marketing, which he hates, after his pathetic showing in the bush fires. The only good thing you can say about him is that he isn't as pure evil as Peter Dutton.
told you I don't follow Aussie politics!
That was great mate. Loved it.
Firstly, it‘s an opinion piece. Secondly, even the article admits „there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals“. Finally, coming from a country that’s losing it‘s credibility in the rest of the world by the hour — talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Still, I wouldn‘t rule out anything shady by any government of any country worldwide.
There is a great deal of evidence that it isn't manufactured I believe.
Evidence that the virus was engineered in a lab? That would be new to me. Care to share?
But each clap kills a handful of possible viruses. I kindly ask everybody to clap closely to their mouths for efficient killing.
Now finger snippers really have something to be afraid about.
That it wasn't manufactured at a lab. Early on various labs looked at the virus and concluded it wasn't manufactured. I don't have the link to hand but it seemed fairly definitive.
They can do as they wish and I am free to point out how silly it is. It’s important to highlight because tokenism is frequently offered up in place of affirmative action which is just infuriating.
There is a lot of anti-Conservative sentiment because they’re a dreadful rabble and in a healthy democracy, governments should be scrutinised and held to account. The action of governments across the globe is a key element of the Covid-19 debate.
Okay, but is it not shady the measures China has taken to not speak about the Wuhan labs? You know, like a normal cicilized country would and should do to get to the bottom of how it originated? Instead China now is washing hands, and have good opportunities to buy up large lums of shares in European companies in a general transparent union like the EU.
They've done unethical experiments - we cant just rule it out. Instead we get no picture about it at all. I of course, like you, also loathe american cover ups and crappy US ruling, but that does not make it OK for China to not shine a light on the issue
And dont dismiss the article as just an opinion piece. It states facts and reports from earlier years over raised concern. Some of it is surely opinion, but the article ALSO says it is not certain that it came from the lab. So it's not like its just a pro American agenda. More like a healthy critical journalist angle. With China, you always need someone to ask serious questions as they operate very much under the radar.
The horses are way out of the barn now. If only they had taken it seriously early back in January and then executed a containment strategy and their measures instead of shaking hands.
So there are only two solutions left:
1) Herd immunity
2) Hyper containment -- you test every single person once every three weeks or a month then isolate or hospitalise them if required.
Both are unrealistic due to costs.
Natural thing left is mitigation. I can only see a whack a mole scenario going forward till past 2021 or early 2022. The vaccine ain't expected to be ready till Mid-2021. But then there is the issue of supplies and the distribution of the vaccine. Not everyone can get vaccinated all the same time. It will be rolled out gradually.
https://www.msn.com/en-za/health/co...-plots-re-opening/ar-BB12LcYF?ocid=spartandhp
So China was not cooking the books then.
So China was not cooking the books then.
I wouldn't be surprised if the actual numbers are 10 times more.
I also wonder if by the time a vaccine is developed if heard immunity isn't already naturally achieved?
Better theraputic medicine to reduce symptoms and get better clinical outcomes probably is also a pretty key part of it as well I guess... Perhaps an existing drug will be shown to have some benefit... If not then I guess development and clinical trials puts it on the same timeline as a vaccine.
China lying? No way, I cannot believe it.
There's been some buzz about Remdesivir but there's apparently no control group in that trial and the company performing it is supposed to be somewhat shady.
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It's fair to be cautiousy optimistic at this point.
Based on?
I mean uk Is under reporting by 50% apparently due to not reporting care home figure
Assuming your ten times guess is based on more than a racial stereotype please present some credible data
Many lack objectivity when criticising the government. There is a clear hatred of the tories by some and with that it’s just easy to blame the government than look at the general supply issues amongst many other issues. I have never voted conservative but I stand by a labour government would be just as ‘useless’ in this scenario and there would similar quip remarks about having a labour government in this situation.
As for the tories underfunding the NHS I actually work with GP practice finance and Primary Care is not underfunded at all. The biggest issue is how it’s spent or the shear number of pointless bodies that all fight for their own funding, then simply waste their budget each year so it isn’t reduced in the next. Plus, and I only speak of my own experience, GP who own practices are some of the greediest people I have had to work with when it comes to money. Many would rather take home more money than actually ensure their practice can run properly. But that doesn’t fit the narrative of Doctors being the most caring in society. Some of the things I have seen over the years would shock the general public.
Seems like in Lithuania we're going hard trying to eliminate this virus totally; lots of testing, contact tracing, strong measures (compulsory masks in the public), penalties (500 EUR) for groups of more than two people (except for families). Also, during Easter break internally the movement was restricted unless you had a property/good reason to move around towns/cities. Also, we're isolating towns where outbreaks picking up the pace as well. For the past 10 days we consistently had between 10-30 new cases daily and that's with increased testing load (at the moment we've done 20k tests per 1M of population). Hopefully, these extreme means will yield the desired results.
I doubt it - currently only .15% and .30% of the population in the UK and Belgium respectively has tested positive, for example. That's probably a big underestimation but still it would only be around 1% of the population for most countries, I'd assume. Even Italy and Spain hover around 0.3% and 0.4% of their population confirmed as positive.
We need a lot more for herd immunity, and sadly the tactic goes with a lot of risk for another big outbreak, accompanied with a lot more risks for risk groups.
Not without tens of millons of dead.
Lets say we need 60% infected for herd immunity (more like 85% with the R0 we think may be likley) and a death rate of of 0.25% (also likely an underestimate) then that is over 11 million dead. With 85% and 1% that would be nearly 64 million dead.
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Men are spraying disinfectant on the main road here. I have no idea how they think that's going to help anything, it's not as if anyone touches it with their bare hands!
Can I just say how wonderful the Caf has been for this whole thing. Having so many European posters updating like this is genuinely riveting reading. People like @Regulus Arcturus Black might get stick, but it's been fascinating to see how countries are handling this.
An absolute legend of the local community died of Corona by me yesterday. Anyone from the Saddleworth area of Oldham will know who I am talking about. As more and more people I know are dying from this disease, this thread helps me understand what is happening in the world a little better.
I read somewhere that soles of shoes can have a massive impact on spreading different versions of a virus. If people sneeze or cough when walking near a road and then it lands on the road, people can then pick it up off the bottom of their shoe. I'm not saying that is what is happening here, but you can sort of see the logic.
Oh wow! You’ve made me see the error of my ways. You’re right. I was absolutely suggesting that if you clap, you are doing so to make it clear NHS workers don’t need more PPE and that the Tory government is fully endorsed by all.
Take your hand off it.
You’re the fella that could see your star player score an overhead kick from 25 yards in the dying seconds to win a CL final, then walk out before the trophy is presented as he still hasn’t signed a new contract. While also complaining he earns too much already. Loudly. In the car. On your own. Because talksport won’t take your calls anymore.
Get out of your own way, you’ll be happier for it.
Development timelines for medicines usually a fraction of timeline for vaccines. Mind you, development timeline for vaccines usually 8 or 9 years.
Is road licking a thing?
And yet some people actually believe that China where all telling the truth and their death rate was lower than Belgium's.
That's been going on weekly here. The guy actually doing the spraying looks so disinterested at this point though, he barely covers half the road anymore.
To be fair to them, that'll also happen for the UK if you're not counting nursing home deaths at the moment (which Belgium are all including, regardless of confirmed corona tests, hence the high number of deaths). It seems that it's rather an addition of deaths based on late reporting (or a similar valid explanation) than an admission of guilt from their side.
Doesn't mean their numbers aren't skewed in any case though, obviously. But they must've thought they got it really under control otherwise they wouldn't have lifted the Wuhan lockdown, I'd imagine.
It’s hard to be objective when lives are destroyed by austerity. I don’t doubt your point about NHS funds being used inefficiently. But there is a clear trend towards serious underfunding of frontline public services in the UK.
The elephant in the room are the asymptomatic and the pre-symptomatics. Thats why the monthly testing can address that. 18 months is a lifetime under the correct condition.
But the longer this drags on, the more it erodes the NHS' capacity. It's already over-capacity as it is and is just like Italy -- its running on fumes and thus the extraordinary high fatality rates. How many more months before its completely broken --- when a massive portion of its staff is out of commission due to being infected (from lack of PPEs), infra is completely choked.
And this is not to mention the under-reported cases/deaths at the care homes.
I suspect every country are under-reporting. When you don't test at the start, you just don't have a baseline to start your containment strategy. Then you are flying blind.
If you think China is bad, try the UK, US. They denied the issue to start with then get got caught for looking stupid -- and have made it into a political issue as well as a healthcare issue.
Deaths are most likely being under-reported in every country. Which has grave implications for mortality.
We’ve always assumed we were working off a falsely low denominator when calculating CFR because of mild/asymptomatic cases not being picked up. However if the numerator is higher than we thought it will have a bigger impact on the CFR than a bump in the denominator numbers. I would say it’s highly unlikely we’ll end up with the <1% CFR that keeps getting talked about. Could even end up 2%+.