SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Lockdown is supposed to be slowly lifted starting Tuesday in Denmark provided all things go well and the infections stay low. Tomorrow is also 18 C in forecast. :rolleyes:

It feels like the weather is constantly playing a joke with us.
 
FootballHQ said:
Just seen Priti Patel doing the daily update today so they've let here out of the basement she's been hiding in.

Reminds me of when Dougal did that mass in Father Ted. :lol:
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SteveJ said:
Great idea to have someone accused of bullying launching a campaign against abuse...
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villain said:


You just have to laugh
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Adisa said:
Patel's apology was true to form.
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unchanged_lineup said:
Feckin hell, Priti Patel actually did the "sorry if you FEEL that..." non-apology. :lol:
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Sassy Colin said:
She actually said that, I think might be illiterate.
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Priti Patel is a disgrace on so many levels. Even her 'apology' was basically a passive aggressive bark at reporter to shut up. #Bully

The question I want answered is why didn't Government build UK manufacturing capacity for PPE (and place foreign orders) from mid January? Why only start panic buying from mid March??? These lost 6 weeks is a key reason why UK is getting battered by covid19.

Also, why dont reporters ever ask

2. Why didn't UK close borders to covid19 hot spot nations? And insist ALL incoming UK citizens complete monitored quarantine?
3. Why delay lockdown til mid march?
4. Why not use army for draconian implementation of lockdown?
5. Why wasn't a 'pandemic' previously war gamed, with established protocols already in place?

It's blatantly obvious UK Government is winging it, and making huge self inflicted errors because of 'the fog of war' due to lack of any planning whatsoever, some which could have started since 2nd January.
 
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Heardy said:
How are Sweden’s numbers so low, especially in the context of such a slow/minimal lockdown.
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I had this debate with a facebook friend who is very much "this is all media hyper, why we locked down, look at Sweden"

Sweden has a population of 10.23 million in a land mass of 450,295 km² known cases is at 10,151 or 0.098% of the population.
The UK has a population of 66.65 million in a land mass of 242,495 km² known cases of 78,991 or 0.11% of the population.

So the numbers are not far from ours, despite them having a significantly less number of people within their population, spread out over a greater area. Sweden has a population density of 25 per km², the United Kingdom has 272 per km² and England has 430 per km²

You could probably argue that Sweden is, in fact, doing worst than most countries, considering when you take into account population density and their known cases within the population are equivalent to countries that are more densely populated.
 
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sammsky1 said:
Priti Patel is a disgrace on so many levels. Even her 'apology' was basically a passive aggressive bark at reporter to shut up. #Bully

The question I want answered is why didn't Government build UK manufacturing capacity for PPE (and place foreign orders) from mid January? Why only start panic buying from mid March??? These lost 6 weeks is a key reason why UK is getting battered by covid19.

Also, why dont reporters ever ask

2. Why didn't UK close borders to covid19 hot spot nations? And insist ALL incoming UK citizens complete monitored quarantine?
3. Why delay lockdown til mid march?
4. Why not use army for draconian implementation of lockdown?
5. Why wasn't a 'pandemic' previously war gamed, with established protocols already in place?

It's blatantly obvious UK Government is winging it, and making huge self inflicted errors because of 'the fog of war' due to lack of any planning whatsoever, some which could have started since 2nd January.
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Australia only had 110 new infections yesterday despite better testing than the UK. Only 56 dead so far despite a huge clusterfeck that allowed hundreds of infected people walk off a cruiseliner in central Sydney a few weeks ago.

People don't behave and they get big fines or arrested. Bondi Beach gets closed when people won't social distance.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
You realise I’m a Manc right @UnrelatedPsuedo?

I think my home country gambled, they had a plan, probably a shit one for such a populated country, they panicked and now it looks like the blind leading the blind over there. They like France closed the barn doors long after the horse had bolted.

Sweden aren’t gambling, they have a clear plan and methods to implement it and the information overload we get daily is light years ahead of home. I feel a shit load safer here that’s for sure.
So far it’s showing.
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I thought you were born there if I’m honest.

Sweden is gambling though. It’s a plan. They have methods. But they do seem more comfortable with losing More people than most Other countries.

I just think Sweden has picked a path that can’t be judged for several months. So why push back against any criticism (the same can also be said to anyone that criticises now).
 
Shakesey said:
Ahhh, Red Cafe! My go-to news outlet. I love you guys!

How is it that most people who comment here seem so... Well... intelligent? Whenever I make the mistake of going on to Facebook I lose faith in humanity. Sorry to say, but most people on there are idiots. And Facebook is most people.

Somehow we got the perfect platform here. I came to the Caf for football, but I'm getting so much more out of it! Thanks!
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This is my view to, it's like a hive mind and is the first place I go to also with obviously google cross referencing
 
With Johnson, Raab, Patel, Gove, Hancock, Mogg et al running the show, it can't come as a surprise that it's a complete shitshow.
If the political will was there to get the proper kit to NHS staff, it could be done in days. That should tell you something.
Add Brexit on top of this disaster.......Christ, this country is so fecked.
 
Hal9000 said:
I had this debate with a facebook friend who is very much "this is all media hyper, why we locked down, look at Sweden"

Sweden has a population of 10.23 million in a land mass of 450,295 km² known cases is at 10,151 or 0.098% of the population.
The UK has a population of 66.65 million in a land mass of 242,495 km² known cases of 78,991 or 0.11% of the population.

So the numbers are not far from ours, despite them having a significantly less number of people within their population, spread out over a greater area. Sweden has a population density of 25 per km², the United Kingdom has 272 per km² and England has 430 per km²

You could probably argue that Sweden is, in fact, doing worst than most countries, considering when you take into account population density and their known cases are equivalent to to countries that are more densely populated.
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This kind of thing is why Sweden can afford to walk a different path.

50% Living alone
 
Wibble said:
What if that is what is needed? I suspect the world needs to lock down significantly for at least 6 months and then to at least some degree until we have a vaccine. Life won't return to normal for up to 3 or 4 years imo.
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There won't be a world to come back too. Poverty would be at unprecedented levels.
 
FireballXL5 said:
With Johnson, Raab, Patel, Gove, Hancock, Mogg et al running the show, it can't come as a surprise that it's a complete shitshow.
If the political will was there to get the proper kit to NHS staff, it could be done in days. That should tell you something.
Add Brexit on top of this disaster.......Christ, this country is so fecked.
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its obvious that UK Government is suffering on several levels right now.

Firstly it's not the very best or experienced of the conservative party MPs, rather a crew of Brexit sycophants who will bow to Boris's every demand.
Secondly, it's a new team who had barely worked together before; many of whom have very little experience in ministerial roles or PM.
Thirdly, their election policy was basically "get Brexit done", so there is little substance of any of their policy platforms.
Lastly, their leader Boris, who put this team together, and without whom it can barely function is now AWOL for an unspecified time period.

All that during an unforeseen generational crisis.

I wish Boris had appointed a neutral advisory board of elders which included Cameron, Blair, previous/retired CEO's of NHS, multinational corporates, BBC, Army Field Marshall etc, put them all up in a hotel and ask them to advise his covid19 COBRA team. From my point of view, it would have been a signal of intelligence rather that a sign of weakness.
 
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Shakesey said:
Ahhh, Red Cafe! My go-to news outlet. I love you guys!

How is it that most people who comment here seem so... Well... intelligent? Whenever I make the mistake of going on to Facebook I lose faith in humanity. Sorry to say, but most people on there are idiots. And Facebook is most people.

Somehow we got the perfect platform here. I came to the Caf for football, but I'm getting so much more out of it! Thanks!
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Wait until football, and all its meltdowns are back. Youll change your mind :lol:

Anyway, I heard we might start to sell liquor by Friday next week ;)
 
Wibble said:
Australia only had 110 new infections yesterday despite better testing than the UK. Only 56 dead so far despite a huge clusterfeck that allowed hundreds of infected people walk off a cruiseliner in centeal Sydney a few weeks ago.

People don't behave and they get big fines or arrested. Bondi Beach gets closed when people won't social distance.
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I think someone is throwing Australia a bone after the wildfires. I hope anyway, don't want my dad to get sick. Or kangaroos because they're awesome.
 
Hal9000 said:
I had this debate with a facebook friend who is very much "this is all media hyper, why we locked down, look at Sweden"

Sweden has a population of 10.23 million in a land mass of 450,295 km² known cases is at 10,151 or 0.098% of the population.
The UK has a population of 66.65 million in a land mass of 242,495 km² known cases of 78,991 or 0.11% of the population.

So the numbers are not far from ours, despite them having a significantly less number of people within their population, spread out over a greater area. Sweden has a population density of 25 per km², the United Kingdom has 272 per km² and England has 430 per km²

You could probably argue that Sweden is, in fact, doing worst than most countries, considering when you take into account population density and their known cases are equivalent to to countries that are more densely populated.
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How has RAB not replied to this yet?!
 
Dancfc said:
There won't be a world to come back too. Poverty would be at unprecedented levels.
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Yep. Which is why it will NEVER go that far. The planet Will say enough is enough and governments will open lockdown and go head on.....who dies,dies,sadly but the bulk survives and the world also
There's a disturbing group around here that think that history in 3050 will look back at this and see mankind sat in their living rooms and clapped for the NHS then died like crickets in their pyjamas.

They're sorely mistaken.
 
Shakesey said:
How is it that most people who comment here seem so... Well... intelligent?
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We're all like-minded. Because of affluence.
 
Spoke to my brother in law. His colleague is now on a ventilator. He said there is not enough protective clothing for him and his staff especially the nurses. He has not been tested and neither is he eligible though his colleague is on a ventilator. This is unbelievable that one doctor is on a ventilator yet his colleague who has so many patients is not tested.
He said the story of tigers led by donkeys is absolutely true.
 
sammsky1 said:
3. Why delay lockdown til mid march?
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Was asked yesterday or the day before, Vallance I think it was said they were going through models throughout March and then made the decision to lock down when they had enough information for the scenarios.

Was rebuttled by the Reuters reporter saying we were told models actually started in February, to which he was answered "I don't know what to tell you, our models were in March" - or something to that effect.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Yep. Which is why it will NEVER go that far. The planet Will say enough is enough and governments will open lockdown and go head on.....who dies,dies,sadly but the bulk survives and the world also
There's a disturbing group around here that think that history in 3050 will look back at this and see mankind sat in their living rooms and clapped for the NHS then died like crickets in their pyjamas.

They're sorely mistaken.
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So you would prefer they died in far greater numbers in the streets?
 
FireballXL5 said:
With Johnson, Raab, Patel, Gove, Hancock, Mogg et al running the show, it can't come as a surprise that it's a complete shitshow.
If the political will was there to get the proper kit to NHS staff, it could be done in days. That should tell you something.
Add Brexit on top of this disaster.......Christ, this country is so fecked.
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I am curious as to know where people think this all comes from?

Yes it's a bad situation that any NHS worker might not have proper kit, but there is a larger issue for most of the countries in the world being at the mercy of China and East Asia to produce this stuff as they produce around 85% of all PPE. And I have heard alot of people ask why wasnt all the kit and ventilators being bought in January in preparation, well incase people are forgetting that was when East Asia was the epicentre and were hoarding all the equipment.
Now it's mostly been contained over there we are at the stage where countries are bidding against each to get what they truly need.
Only Germany have the industry to produce testing and kit from the get go and if people have forgotten as well they were hoarding themselves by banning exports in March.
 
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Mr Pigeon said:
I think someone is throwing Australia a bone after the wildfires. I hope anyway, don't want my dad to get sick. Or kangaroos because they're awesome.
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We got lucky and we had a government who have fecked up time and again so they were keen to do better this time. Not great but much better. The Ruby Princess fiasco aside we have also been lucky enough to lock down largely ahead of mass imported cases. Stopping flights from China and Italy helped and now we have compulsory 14 days of hotel quarantine at government expense for all international or interstate travellers (or just turning people back at interstate borders when they don't have a permit).

Some numpty tried to drive 95kg of weed over the NSW-Qld border this week. Fined $1000 for not having a good reason to cross the border, then arrested for commercial drug production. What a dimwit.
 
Shakesey said:
Ahhh, Red Cafe! My go-to news outlet. I love you guys!

How is it that most people who comment here seem so... Well... intelligent? Whenever I make the mistake of going on to Facebook I lose faith in humanity. Sorry to say, but most people on there are idiots. And Facebook is most people.

Somehow we got the perfect platform here. I came to the Caf for football, but I'm getting so much more out of it! Thanks!
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This used to be pretty strict. It took me nearly one year of posting to be promoted from the newbies, and I'm not exactly an illiterate guy, to put it modestly. I just wan't promoted because the stuff I posted wasn't interesting enough to get noticed.

Promotion "standards" have relaxed quite a bit since then, but I guess that sort of obsession with "quality" posters trickled down quite a bit throughout the years, and a sort of culture developed from that.

I think my life would be quite different without redcafe. I've gained debating skills here simply by getting beaten on conversations by people like Brwned, Mockney and Pogue, or watching them argue against each other. I went from that feeling of "I know I'm right but am not being able to argue with them" to holding my own quite confidently against other people. This has spilled over to my "real" life and has improved both my social and professional standing.
 
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starman said:
I am curious as to know where people think this all comes from?

Yes it's a bad situation that any NHS worker might not have proper kit, but there is a larger issue for most of the countries in the world being at the mercy of China and East Asia to produce this stuff as they produce around 85% of all PPE. And I have heard alot of people ask why wasnt all the kit and ventilators being bought in January in preparation, well incase people are forgetting that was when East Asia was the epicentre and were hoarding all the equipment.
Now it's mostly been contained over there we are at the stage where countries are bidding against each to get what they truly need.
Only Germany have the industry to produce testing and kit from the get go and if people have forgotten as well they were hoarding themselves by banning exports in March.
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Competent planning a couple of months ago when it was obvious what was coming.
 
sammsky1 said:


Priti Patel is a disgrace on so many levels. Even her 'apology' was basically a passive aggressive bark at reporter to shut up. #Bully

The question I want answered is why didn't Government build UK manufacturing capacity for PPE (and place foreign orders) from mid January? Why only start panic buying from mid March??? These lost 6 weeks is a key reason why UK is getting battered by covid19.

Also, why dont reporters ever ask

2. Why didn't UK close borders to covid19 hot spot nations? And insist ALL incoming UK citizens complete monitored quarantine?
3. Why delay lockdown til mid march?
4. Why not use army for draconian implementation of lockdown?
5. Why wasn't a 'pandemic' previously war gamed, with established protocols already in place?

It's blatantly obvious UK Government is winging it, and making huge self inflicted errors because of 'the fog of war' due to lack of any planning whatsoever, some which could have started since 2nd January.
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I'm amazed at how anyone thinks any government isn't winging it. Of course they're winging it, there's zero information. There was zero information in January. Nobody had a clue. Because why would they know? Revisionist nonsense.
 
Camilo said:
I'm amazed at how anyone thinks any government isn't winging it. Of course they're winging it, there's zero information. There was zero information in January. Nobody had a clue. Because why would they know? Revisionist nonsense.
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All data from SARS, MERS etc was available to all countries for many years. Governments across NE & SE Asia had previous strategic plans and resources in place. I was in Thailand during their initial phase. They knew exactly what to do and when to do it, and with the right level of urgency or severity. They certainly didn't 'wing it' at all. Countries like New Zealand chose to follow that lead.

covid19 doesn't care about human timetables, it gets on with its business on its own timetable. It's up to our elected Governments to react in a timely fashion to protect their citizens.

Lastly, there has been loads of official and anecdotal information about covid19 since mid January. And for a country who could build a 1500 bed capacity hospital in 9 days, 6 weeks is an eternity. UK Government chose to assume it wouldn't blow this way, which is proving to be a tragically arrogant miscalculation.

Not sure what is revisionist or non sensical of any of the above.
 
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Hal9000 said:
I had this debate with a facebook friend who is very much "this is all media hyper, why we locked down, look at Sweden"

Sweden has a population of 10.23 million in a land mass of 450,295 km² known cases is at 10,151 or 0.098% of the population.
The UK has a population of 66.65 million in a land mass of 242,495 km² known cases of 78,991 or 0.11% of the population.

So the numbers are not far from ours, despite them having a significantly less number of people within their population, spread out over a greater area. Sweden has a population density of 25 per km², the United Kingdom has 272 per km² and England has 430 per km²

You could probably argue that Sweden is, in fact, doing worst than most countries, considering when you take into account population density and their known cases within the population are equivalent to countries that are more densely populated.
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You could argue but it would not be true. Absolute and relative number says they are better while preserving better the economy.

We have to understand that every country, every moment of the pandemia demands different solutions.

The density of sweden helps them to opt for the path they chosen. Time will tell if they were right. If situation goes out of hands, they might change strategy accordingly like UK did when everything went tits up

Different strategies might achieve the best goals than a country can achieve in a precise moment.
 
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