Bringing your sick children to their grandparents and going into work with a cold are two things I can't see returning.
People wearing face masks when sick might become a thing too. Shaking hands might disappear for a good while.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
People wearing face masks when sick might become a thing too. Shaking hands might disappear for a good while.
The reason people bring the economy Into things it's because it affects life. People don't factor the economy Into the equation because they want to jet off to Sydney or but a new house in Kensington, they do it because it's vital in saving lives not just in the immediate but long term aswell.
Let's say we do actually go into lockdown until there's a vaccine/cure/it fizzles out what next?
We re open up the world and 60% of businesses are gone (and that's a Ty level optimistic prediction, it will probably be worse) so who will pay the taxes to keep the NHS going (and save lives)? Who will pay the taxes to feed the majority (yes majority) of families who can't find work fed?
Will it go back to the completely normal like it was before ? Almost certainly not (not for a while anyway) but long term lockdown will lead to many many more problems. The awful poverty we see in Africa could well then up on our door.
I really don't envy the guy tasked with working out the happy medium but it absolutely has to happen, I'd go as far as saying it's probably the most crucial aspect of this whole crisis.
Much less emphasis on the ‘rat race’ and it’s shown the huge flaws in the way wealth is distributed and how unfair the whole game of life is. It’s shown people what’s truly important and that is life.
Yeah, but that’s not changing strategy. That’s just streamlining the decision process mate.
It’s been in the pipeline for a couple of weeks that, so that "if" the pandemic was to start looking very worrying, they could extremely quickly make some big decisions without parliament approval.
Strategy is still exactly the same, confirmed by PM in his press conference this avo even after that was put forward.
That said, there's plenty of us in Sweden not 100% happy about the proposal as it'll give the government power that should really be in the hands of the myndighet (Health Authority). "Popular" propositions might be put forward over scientific ones. We're hoping it'll still only be used as a worst case scenario.
As it looks here now, the number of positive cases have dropped for quite a few consecutive days (maybe 5 days if today follows the trend), new ICU patients per day has been between 30-40 per day since 23rd March, and deaths per day which obviously is a view of the pandemic 2-3 weeks ago has been:
April 1: 40
April 2: 55
April 3: 49
April 4: 40
April 5: 49
April 6: 37
So steady enough there also.
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Good description of the situation in India and will be in most 2nd and 3rd world countries and probably some first world ones as well...
A new kind of health consciousness, which will result in people taking personal cleanliness more seriously, applying principles of social distancing more regularly, and a desire for more health spending with a particular focus on prevention.
A new conception of necessary travel, particularly in terms of many more business trips by air being replaced by online communication, many more office workers working from home frequently, and a general decline in leisure air travel due to it now being a significant contributor to pandemic risk on top of the environmental harm.
A move away from the "face-to-face economy" to online solutions more generally.
A move towards more authoritarian, nationalistic policies in response to the national supply shortages and relative lack of successful international co-operation and increased need for safety, with compromises accepted to deliver that.
They're all plausible to some degree. Some could go in completely the opposite direction. Major events generally do leave a psychological impression (many would say scar) on society that do fundamentally alter regular life. We're often not very good at predicting them though.
Breathing exercise should you get into difficulty and could help you maintain your lungs before you get bad.
Also should mention not to do the exercises and cough around others who could become infected. Do this on your own.
Also should mention not to do the exercises and cough around others who could become infected. Do this on your own.
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Breathing exercise should you get into difficulty.
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Think it can help before you get bad helping the lungs stay functioning and not getting logged up and also that old guy from the cruise very early on in the outbreak managed to avoid going on a ventilator in Japan by doing breathing exercises he knew.
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Think it can help before you get bad helping the lungs stay functioning and not getting logged up and also that old guy from the cruise very early on in the outbreak managed to avoid going on a ventilator in Japan by doing breathing exercises he knew.
Much of this I’d go with. I would also add no large gatherings of folk until such time as there is a vaccine. Can you imagine 75,000 at OT or 25k plus at the O2 arena in the current climate. In addition I certainly think go where you want and when you want will be an absolute no no for many a month and what’s the betting when restrictions are relaxed that travel to and from China in the foreseeable future will result in automatic quarantine. It’s strange that we had 3 years of what economic damage Brexit would do whereas the cost to the nation of Covid 19 will IMHO dwarf for generations any damage that leaving the EU will.
Coronavirus ‘could kill 2 million in Bangladesh’, warns leaked UN memoGood description of the situation in India and will be in most 2nd and 3rd world countries and probably some first world ones as well...
https://www.channel4.com/news/coronavirus-could-kill-2-million-in-bangladesh-warns-leaked-un-memo?
That'll all depend on the antibody tests being developed. If we can test a large portion of the population and find out a huge portion has been infected, then we could go back to "normal" quicker than otherwise.
Without that, it's a long long road.
Excludes data from Manchester, Leeds and NI. True total must be 800+.
I'm surprised and terrified that people are so willing to give up their essential freedoms because they're a little scared. If someone would have asked me in January how deadly a pandemic would have to be for people to be as willing as they currently collectively are to give up their freedoms I'd have said at least 10x more deadly overall and around 50x more deadly for those under 60.
As someone concerned about the progressive erosion of civil liberties (which is always under the guise of keeping the populace safety) the enthusiasm with which we're gifted our basic rights to government for a bit of purported safety is far more concerning that the virus itself. I've no doubt future governments will look at how quickly we were willing to sacrifice these freedoms and use it as a blueprint.
Literally in this thread less than 48 hours ago a video was posted of someone alone on a park bench in a communal space with no-one within 50 metres of them with close to zero chance for infecting anyone else. Several police officers who were not themselves following the guidelines they were enforcing arrested them without being able to quote the legislation for which they were relying. If that in and of itself wasn't frightening enough, rather than protests regarding a clear abuse of police powers, we have people criticising that the person even had the right to sit on the bench in the first place. We've joyfully sleepwalked into 1984.
Surely you realised a long time ago that as a libertarian your views on these things were completely out of sync with the majority of the population?
Only the people tested data. The deaths are all those reported today.
This sort of sense of entitlement is more the issue for me. Some people have such an exaggerated sense of self-importance that they put their own "essential freedoms" above the safety of those around them. Its equivalent to the whole "Ronaldo is a slave at United" nonsense. Sometimes sacrifice is required to maintain the freedoms and quality of life that people (in the UK) enjoy in this modern age. Im in my 30's so have never experienced anything like the World Wars - this is pretty much the most extreme national disaster to take place in my lifetime so far. I think a lot of people of my generation and those around dont realise how lucky they have been to live in what has been largely a time of stability and peace for the world, and they dont understand or appreciate that sometimes life has hardships that we must endure.
The idea that this is a "slippery slope" to some sort of totalitarian police state is a nonsense in my view. Admittedly I have very little faith in the general public (especially after the last 5 years or so), but I remain confident that there are some fairly basic red lines where the populace will collectively tell the gov't to feck off. The current situation isnt one of them - its about a new virus, which is still mostly unknown, which has spread around the world and is killing thousands of people. It is an impossible balance to try to find, to protect the public safety whilst also trying to minimise the long term damage to the economy, but its definitely a bit early to be pining over lost personal freedoms.
For what its worth, I mostly identify as a libertarian, too.
No words for this post.
There's definitely something to worry about there, yes. At present, they've got us policing each other out of fear and frustration, which in some ways is definitely a good thing as there's a lot of people taking the piss out there which is having an effect on us all.
But how far does that go and when does it stop? On Sunday, my 63yr old mother was barking across the road at the neighbours because the man of the house was chatting to a builder in his garden. Proper shouting at him for flounting social distancing measures, it was quite awkward to be around. Afterwards my mother was a bit upset and said she mainly did because she's fed up and frustrated at not being able to see her grandkids. The bloke was hardly having a group BBQ or some pissup with his mates, it was a 5min conversation in his own front garden.
Remember when those rumours came out about China implementing that 'social credit' thing where you got browny points for grassing up neighbours/colleagues who were speaking bad about the government? Better access to housing, education etc. Scoring you like an episode of 'Black Mirror'.
Well this is how things like that start. Get the scared, frustrated people to police themselves and demonise each other.
I have no doubt that when this all over there will be stricter measures imposed on all of us - some for genuine good, some for rotten motives.
I'm a little bit more optimistic than this, although some head of states will clearly seize the opportunity and move towards authoritarianism, particularly if this has been part of the country's recent past.
Our mistake was to put most of our eggs in one or two baskets; PPE from China and medicines from India. I don't think every country after this is over will start thinking only about themselves in terms of policies, but we'll probably get more localized production of supplies. For example, a handful of European countries taking responsibility of producing enough of this and that, so that we won't have a single point failure again.
Fair point, good post.
I haven’t heard about those other viruses though, so I don’t know if they were less dangerous or the situation was handled better.
This isn't a serious post, right?
Italy today:
604 deaths (-32 yesterday)
3039 new cases (-560 yesterday)
106 fewer in intensive care.
604 deaths (-32 yesterday)
3039 new cases (-560 yesterday)
106 fewer in intensive care.
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I think self isolation is making some people go bonkers.
Who knew Raab had an empathetic bone in his body?
It can’t be. It’s just too crazy. Then again my mate from work said today that US are so lucky to have a president like Trump handling it because he has done everything perfectly so far. I think people are really breaking up mentally.
There were some really well written responses disagreeing with the original post. What is the point of these one liners questioning the sincerity of the poster? Doesn't advance the conversation and to me they always scream "Hey look at me how outraged I am."
For what it's worth, finneh made some good points and there is definitely reason to be concerned. Of course there is when most of us have never seen their liberties infringed upon like this. On the other hand, I don't really see an alternative to partial and temporary lockdowns. We're dealing with an unknown virus that is capable of overwhelming national health systems. Drastic measures had to be taken.
And it's taken almost 2 months from the outbreak to get to this point. The government are saying lockdown will last for some time yet and are pleading with the generally very religious Italians to stay at home over Easter.
So around 18000 of the reported cases have required hospitalisation which means that a third of the cases requiring hospitalisation have resulted in death? That's really scary
Hopefully people will listen and not congregate. There's already been too many deaths.
At least Whitty and Valance answer questions. Raab just provides typical political bullshit responses that ignore the main point of pretty much every question directed towards him.
There's no Mass to attend, in any case. We can all watch online or in Italy on TV, as we've been doing for weeks now. I suspect most Italians will be keener to go and have a big meal with their families, as you know! The weather's going to continue to be warm, which kind of doesn't help.
What's the old quote? Give me liberty or give me death.
With this situation, it's your choice.
Agree with this!
The fact that we're so far behind the curve on testing and have been caught on the back foot in terms of approving private testing through domestic labs that have apparently offered services and not procuring necessary tests is a travesty!
I guess the hope here is that there is a vastly greater number of cases that do not need hospital admission. I feel that we would have a far better picture of the severity of the disease and our ability to deal with it (within the constraints of NHS capacity) if we had a better idea of how many people within the population have actually had it and fought it off themselves.
That's generally because you don't believe in society or the goodwill of society, I've read enough of your posts across threads to know that.
The majority in time of crisis are actually able to snap out the individualistic mindset and band together for the greater good, It's human nature. Giving up your freedom requires a lack of choice and instruction but the government and police are merely imposing collective judgement here.
There's a certainly valid debate to be had as to whether people are right to trust governments with creeping legislation.
Personally I'll settle for being able to go and see my other half, she only lives ten mins up the road, and I'm missing her like mad, that would do me.
Awwww bless him!
In light of these figures, here's the amended graph of 'deaths aggregated over 3 days'.
Again, I think this is a quite good way of illustrating things in order to even out the inconsistencies of reporting from the NHS.
If the UK can keep anywhere near 1846 over the next 3 days (as horrific as that will still be), I think we can start whispering that we might have finally peaked. It'd still be a few weeks before we're safely on the other side, though.
I think people who live in apartments are going bonkers, I live in a house with a yard and part of my time is inside my shop/garage or cutting wood with my son, still have a side job which I go out 1 day a week and I start feeling the cabin fever.