SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Berbasbullet]

And you don’t help. The worst poster in this thread imo

Posts like this don’t help either.

 

[JPRouve]

If it is a numbers game, then shouldn’t 4 diseases come out from other places for every disease that comes from China?

Yet, in this decade we have SARS, SARS 2, H5N1, H7N9 originated in China. MERS, Ebola, Zika and swine flu were outside of China (though in case of swine flu was a new strain of a virus originated in 1918 either on China or the US). Anyway, the point is that it is happening more often than it should in China.

There is a lot more viruses that have appeared in the last two decades Iquitos, Itaya, Chapare, Sabia or Guanarito viruses are examples in South America and not the only ones. H5N1 and H7N9 are interesting examples though, they were both first discovered in Scotland and Minnesota among poultry populations, now human contaminations were first reported in China and in the case of H7N9 it has only been reported in China, the interesting question is whether they were just first reported in China or evolved to human there.

But my point is simple, China and East Asia as a whole have the particularly of having for a large part a good tropical weather that viruses and parasites like, also large amounts of people live in relatively small areas and with human actions like deforestation, wild animals have less places to go that are as far as possible from Humans which means that we will be more and more in contact with new pathogens. The same thing is happening in South America and Africa. Europe alread burnt its forests and got rid of a substantial part of wildlife, so we are kind of safe.

 

[TwoSheds]

He's probably getting private healthcare treatment?

Doubt it. Most private hospitals ship their A&E cases to the NHS because it's too expensive and high risk so they're not really set up for it that well. Usually the NHS has very high standards in A&E, it's the more mundane services that suffer. Also, I think the private hospitals are renting their Covid-19 beds to the NHS anyway aren't they?

 

[ZupZup]

Have there been any stats or reporting on people who have recovered from intensive care having any permanent damage or are they making full recoveries?

Is pneumonia something that goes completely if you survive it?

@Arruda sorry to keep asking you this stuff.

I don't know about the stats... but I had pneumonia a couple of years ago and you do make a full recovery if you get over it. I felt the effects for a good 6-8 weeks after though in terms of fatigue and getting out of breath a lot more easily.

 

[dwd]

Have there been any stats or reporting on people who have recovered from intensive care having any permanent damage or are they making full recoveries?

Is pneumonia something that goes completely if you survive it?

@Arruda sorry to keep asking you this stuff.

I’ve been asking this for weeks now, the UK aren’t reporting recoveries the same way other countries seem to be, at least I hope they aren’t anyway. If not, the stats are terrifying.

 

[Dancfc]

I'm glad the impact on domestic abuse is starting to finally get some coverage, numbers have been up since the lockdown and will only rise further.

I really don't envy the person tasked with finding the happy medium here. We will need to come out of lockdown (atleast this strict version) in the next few weeks, even if we ignore the long term damage, hospital admissions through domestic violence, attempted suicide, heart attacks (through stress) will only continue to rise from here on in which will then go on to overwhelm the NHS, take beds (and nurses) away from potential virus victims and defeat the whole object of lockdown in the first place.

Also am I the only one that is low-key impressed with Sunak through this? If God for bid the worst happens to Boris I really hope he takes the lead instead of Hancock or Rab.

 

[Volumiza]

I don't know about the stats... but I had pneumonia a couple of years ago and you do make a full recovery if you get over it. I felt the effects for a good 6-8 weeks after though in terms of fatigue and getting out of breath a lot more easily.

I do recall seeing someone on tv last week saying that if you get a severe case your lungs may not fully recover. I took this as saying it could leave some permanent damage.

 

[Skills]

Doubt it. Most private hospitals ship their A&E cases to the NHS because it's too expensive and high risk so they're not really set up for it that well. Usually the NHS has very high standards in A&E, it's the more mundane services that suffer. Also, I think the private hospitals are renting their Covid-19 beds to the NHS anyway aren't they?

They are but it's also worth noting a lot of private healthcare in this country is just private wards within NHS hospitals. Where for the most part they're renting equipment from the NHS

 

[11101]

I'm glad the impact on domestic abuse is starting to finally get some coverage, numbers have been up since the lockdown and will only rise further.

I really don't envy the person tasked with finding the happy medium here. We will need to come out of lockdown (atleast this strict version) in the next few weeks, even if we ignore the long term damage, hospital admissions through domestic violence, attempted suicide, heart attacks (through stress) will only continue to rise from here on in which will then go on to overwhelm the NHS, take beds (and nurses) away from potential virus victims and defeat the whole object of lockdown in the first place.

Also am I the only one that is low-key impressed with Sunak through this? If God for bid the worst happens to Boris I really hope he takes the lead instead of Hancock or Rab.

It won't even come close.

With things like this you have to decide on the lesser evil. Whilst there will undoubtedly be issues that arise out of the lockdowns, we just have to take them on the chin and get on with it. They pale in comparison to the disruptive potential the virus has if allowed to get truly out of control.

 

[golden_blunder]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

 

[TheReligion]

There should be a real trail of China for putting world under serious health and economic crises. This is the second time a lethal virus has originated from the same place. Not only this, but deliberately hiding it from the world, falsifying the facts about the disease and punishing the very doctor who tried to warn the world. When 9-11 happened, the world got United against radicalism and collectively chased the roots. Clamped down hard on the financial and other support for any potential breeding ground. Why it should be any difficult to take action against something that has caused a million times worse damage?

I totally agree and hope when the dust settles China takes some responsibility for it's poor handing of this, not only when it was discovered, but in how the country can prevent it happening yet again.

This guy’s party is responsible for underfunding the NHS and costing lots of lives, not to mention they send thousands of men to their deaths (who also have children) in unjust wars. I don’t wish death on him, but I can’t be the only one not giving a shit?

I get people don't like Boris and his party (I'm no Tory either given how they decimated my professional and put me out of pocket) but I can't agree with this. That's like holding me responsible for everything the police service do that's wrong.

Johnson wasn't PM until a couple of months ago. His cabinet weren't the ones that shat on the NHS. He listened to his own nation's medical advisors, which as per your original point were put into position by the previous administration. His political advisor is a cnut, but that doesn't mean he himself deserves to die for it.

So far HIS administration has;

Listened to government advisors
Change tactic when it turned out the information was false
Put economic policies in place to protect millions of people in the UK

You keep saying "they" as if they = Boris. If Cummings was the one in ICU, or Osborne or Lansley, Hunt or Cameron I would give less of a shit than I do about Boris, which is already very little to begin with. But that's all irrelevant. Proclaiming that you want someone to suffer because they've made other people suffer makes you just as much of a cnut* as they are. Perhaps even moreso because they can at least try and hide behind a sense of ignorance to the situation.

*Not calling you specifically a cnut, I'm making a general statement**

**I like cake

Good post mate.

I agree. Whenever the World comes out of this crisis it will immediately face the next crisis of getting back to whatever our new normal will be and every man, woman and dog will be in some sort of debt, countries will be in massive debt.

This virus started in China, whether in a lab or due to hygiene issues in a wet market serving citizens who spread this virus. Nearly every country in the World, especially Europe services debt held by China. The costs of their failure to prevent the virus and its spread around the World while being deceitful could maybe be offset against those debts.

Another post I agree with. The rest of the world is falling apart now and China has just sloped off into the background. I'm sure they are offering some help but let's be honest it's the least they can do. This is their fault and it keeps happening time and time again. It's totally unacceptable and they need holding to account when this settles. There should be a full inquiry by the UN and WHO regarding how this happened and the initial response with serious repercussions.

 

[ivaldo]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

And those who do need it but are skint will not go.

 

[Grinner]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

Definitely. it's great that he is actually needing to rely on the NHS like everybody else. I really hope it is a big learning experience for him when he survives and he becomes a changed man.

 

[Penna]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

Small co-pays seem to work quite well, we have that type of system in Italy. Some things you pay for (blood tests, for instance), some you don't. Most prescribed drugs seem to have no cost, others do. It's not clear why, but I'm sure it makes sense to people who understand the system here!

You can then save your receipts and off-set what you've spent when you do your taxes - so it's quite fair. I assume people on very low incomes don't pay anything at all.

One thing that seems to work here is a walk-in GP service. Our GP has no staff at all, just him in his surgery and a waiting room, which has to be cheaper than an army of receptionists etc.

 

[Buster15]

I totally agree and hope when the dust settles China takes some responsibility for it's poor handing of this, not only when it was discovered, but in how the country can prevent it happening yet again.



I get people don't like Boris and his party (I'm no Tory either given how they decimated my professional and put me out of pocket) but I can't agree with this. That's like holding me responsible for everything the police service do that's wrong.



Good post mate.



Another post I agree with. The rest of the world is falling apart now and China has just sloped off into the background. I'm sure they are offering some help but let's be honest it's the least they can do. This is their fault and it keeps happening time and time again. It's totally unacceptable and they need holding to account when this settles. There should be a full inquiry by the UN and WHO regarding how this happened and the initial response with serious repercussions.

Bang on correct.
I have previously mentioned that China must be held accountable for all the human and financial damage that they have ultimately caused.

 

[Fiskey]

This is just the irrationality of the NHS debate in the UK. Correct me if I’m wrong but in Holland, which is ranked as the best healthcare system in the world, you have to pay some fees or excesses (like UK dental care) for services. It’s run by private companies but with government oversight for fairness whilst funding is available for those in economic distress. Sadly in the UK the NHS is political football so no rational debate can ever be had because of the ideological plonkers on both sides.

I think those comments are perfectly fine and hint at a system that seems to be in place in Holland. I’d also add that all the signals were that Johnson’s number one priority was funding the NHS and improving it because he saw it as his key to being reelected. I tend to believe those stories because a) the NHS consistently is the most important topic to the British electorate b) the makeup of Johnson’s cross class coalition means that this Tory government has to be different and c) he drove our fiscal conservative Javid so he wouldn’t get in the way of his public spending.

Well said.

 

[Grinner]

Bang on correct.
I have previously mentioned that China must be held accountable for all the human and financial damage that they have ultimately caused.

So what are you gonna do, send the bully boys round?

 

[Deery]

Listening to a doctor talking about what will happen Boris sounds like he will have tubes going in everywhere the groin, the stomach, the veins.

 

[Fiskey]

Doubt it. Most private hospitals ship their A&E cases to the NHS because it's too expensive and high risk so they're not really set up for it that well. Usually the NHS has very high standards in A&E, it's the more mundane services that suffer. Also, I think the private hospitals are renting their Covid-19 beds to the NHS anyway aren't they?

From what I've heard a lot of non Covid patients are being moved to private hospitals to create more covid beds within NHS.

 

[TheReligion]

So what are you gonna do, send the bully boys round?

There needs to be a full inquiry and sanctions put in place economically until China takes the necessary steps to prevent this again and become more transparent with the WHO in the event of any future world health issue.

 

[golden_blunder]

And those who do need it but are skint will not go.

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

 

[Fiskey]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

Ideally you'd want a means tested charge if your injury was self inflicted in some way. If you go on a Saturday night so many drunks/druggies.

I'd also say a nudge charge on GP appointments, like the plastic bag charge.

 

[FireballXL5]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

You'd like to think so, but a leopard and it's spots...

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/03/31/...applaud-the-nhs-they-ideologically-oppose-it/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/25/boris-johnson-conservatives-nhs-funding

 

[Skills]

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

And what about the people who slip through the system? As we've seen, either by design or by pure negligence a lot of people who need help seem to slip through their policies.

 

[F-Red]

I'd also say a nudge charge on GP appointments, like the plastic bag charge.

Pointless, GP's just need to be more militant with their time & how they use it.. More video or telephone based appointment first, and reserve face to face appointments for those that need it. Having the ability to have face to face appointments is a nice to have, but in reality impossible to scale.

Once you start charging for something, the floodgates open. It's a dangerous path to go down.

 

[sparx99]

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

Better off people already pay for private healthcare (Bupa or Harley street or wherever). Lots of people get private healthcare through work.

Switching to a semi-private health system because some rich people use the health service seems a huge waste of time and expense. Everybody who works pays tax and funds the NHS already. One of the ways you keep the wealthy onside is by not restricting their access to the services as well. They have a choice to use the NHS Or go private.

 

[Fiskey]

And what about the people who slip through the system? As we've seen, either by design or by pure negligence a lot of people who need help seem to slip through their policies.

It depends on what you want, and your philosophical position.

Would you prefer a system that has greater benefits for 60m people, in the knowledge that that some people, say 100 will fall through the cracks? Or would you prefer a system where no one can fall through the cracks but it's less efficient for everyone else. Obviously if that 100 becomes 1m you've got a rubbish system that needs to be changed.

I don't think we should design these massive systems from the starting point that it must be impossible to fall through the cracks.

 

[Smores]

Those on social will probably still get it free on a medical card system.

And how are you going to pay for the administration of that? What about those who have recently found themselves impoverished? What about the increase of serious cases because people put off seeking help due to cost?

There's a very good reason we've maintained free at the point of use for several decades. How about we just fund it adequately through taxation eh?

 

[Skills]

Pointless, GP's just need to be more militant with their time & how they use it.. More video or telephone based appointment first, and reserve face to face appointments for those that need it. Having the ability to have face to face appointments is a nice to have, but in reality impossible to scale.

They already are. But even then many of them are working well past the hours, because they have so much paperwork to fill and records to upkeep. Then once you've been diagnosed/sent for tests, they also need to find time to follow up and look at the results.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Regardless of your political affiliations or his record, boris is still a human being with a family trying to do a near impossible job in unprecedented circumstances, and even ignoring that fact, the last thing we need as a nation now is a leaderless government while the remaining politicians bicker and squabble over the top job.

 

[Smores]

It depends on what you want, and your philosophical position.

Would you prefer a system that has greater benefits for 60m people, in the knowledge that that some people, say 100 will fall through the cracks? Or would you prefer a system where no one can fall through the cracks but it's less efficient for everyone else. Obviously if that 100 becomes 1m you've got a rubbish system that needs to be changed.

I don't think we should design these massive systems from the starting point that it must be impossible to fall through the cracks.

Can we bore off with the right wing ideological attacks on the NHS whilst they're all risking their lives for the societal good.

 

[Skills]

It depends on what you want, and your philosophical position.

Would you prefer a system that has greater benefits for 60m people, in the knowledge that that some people, say 100 will fall through the cracks? Or would you prefer a system where no one can fall through the cracks but it's less efficient for everyone else. Obviously if that 100 becomes 1m you've got a rubbish system that needs to be changed.

I don't think we should design these massive systems from the starting point that it must be impossible to fall through the cracks.

If there's anyone here who's been involved with any homeless shelter/food bank in this country you'll know which of the two is more likely.

 

[Grinner]

ok, again lets have a wider NHS debate in a separate thread from now on please. People come in here to read about CV and not wade through pages of other stuff. The odd comment here and there is fine but this is becoming a debate in it's own right.

 

[Fiskey]

And how are you going to pay for the administration of that? What about those who have recently found themselves impoverished? What about the increase of serious cases because people put off seeking help due to cost?

There's a very good reason we've maintained free at the point of use for several decades. How about we just fund it adequately through taxation eh?

Lots of countries with better healthcare outcomes do it in a different way. There are reasonable positions on both sides of the debate, it's just what you prioritise.

I know for sure my French, German, Dutch and Swiss friends wouldn't choose the NHS over their systems and most of my British friends love the NHS. I've only met Americans from the developed world who truly hate their own health system.

There are lots of reasonable positions on this debate.

 

[Fiskey]

Can we bore off with the right wing ideological attacks on the NHS whilst they're all risking their lives for the societal good.

It's not an attack, and doctors and nurses all over the world are risking their lives currently whatever country they are in.

 

[Fiskey]

ok, again lets have a wider NHS debate in a separate thread from now on please. People come in here to read about CV and not wade through pages of other stuff. The odd comment here and there is fine but this is becoming a debate in it's own right.

Noted, only just saw this.

 

[RobinLFC]

Belgium hospitalizations keep decreasing (source).

02/04: +584
03/04: +578
04/04: +503
05/04: +499
06/04: +420
07/04: +314

Very encouraging. ICU admissions have been less than 20 for 3 days straight as well, and even had a decrease yesterday.

 

[Grinner]

Noted, only just saw this.

No worries, just start a thread if it's something you want to discuss

 

[Skills]

Belgium hospitalizations keep decreasing.

02/04: +584
03/04: +578
04/04: +503
05/04: +499
06/04: +420
07/04: +314

Very encouraging. ICU admissions have been less than 20 for 3 days straight as well, and even a decrease yesterday.

Belgium were early to react to this whole thing & it's starting to show results. I think you guys will have best outcome in Europe if you can manage the transition into "life as usual"

 

[Sweet Square]

And you don’t help. The worst poster in this thread imo

Ah stop you're making me blush