I very much agree things can't get totally back to normal for quite some time, I have not once argued against that.Its impossible to look too far into the future, we are still catching up to the virus and we need to analyse it to a greater degree before knowing our next move.
What happens if immunity lasts a few months? What damage does it leave and would the danger be greater to younger people second time around?
This isnt a Brexit strategy where we can negotiate with it, if we dont get a hold on this then millions could die from waves that seems to travel in close cycles to each other if they are indeed worried about winter reinfections.
The way we live our life has changed until we get a vaccine, its just how it is.
That is the cold hard fact.
What are you blabbering on about? Facts matter.
Bordering on hysterical. Voice of a nation there.
Not sure if this has been posted or not but it definitely sounds a bit grim
I am sure there is an intelligence test like a SAT written by St Peter to filter the dumb and dumbers.F*cking wacko country.
I love Germany man, used to live in Minden, and if anyone was gonna make a “success” of this it was you guys, think everyone would have put their mortgage on that.
I still wonder how you have so many serious/critical yet so few daily deaths, are you doing something better than other health services? The UK aren’t overwhelmed yet and they are still losing a much higher rate of critically ill.
Unless the critically ill numbers on worldometers are just incorrect for Germany.
6k ventilators for the NHS.
Are you sure about the situation in the UK?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/world/europe/uk-national-health-service.html
Maybe you understand a bit of German, here is an article about how Germany has 9000 free ICU beds with another 8400 available within 24h and a central system to manage capacities and patient allocation efficiently. That has to count for something.
I wouldn't say our politicians reacted super quick, but once Italy gave everyone a stern warning Merkel came out with decisive language and said that 70% could catch it and that this will be the biggest challenge since WW2, maybe that made the most vulnerable, for whom the virus is most lethal take better precautions than their UK counterparts and their enviroment.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/coronavirus-kliniken-anzahl-betten-1.4865776
Wasn’t the UK report from last Jan?
Wouldn’t surprise me if the German’s are just better, but it’d be nice to know how they are better.
Obviously they are miles better prepared with their health services and ICU capacity than any other country in Europe, which should come as a shock to no-one.
The UK is expecting 18,000 ventilators by the end of the week. And it's built extra hospitals in key locations (including one of the largest in the world in London) which have yet to be used.Are you sure about the situation in the UK?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/world/europe/uk-national-health-service.html
Maybe you understand a bit of German, here is an article about how Germany has 9000 free ICU beds with another 8400 available within 24h and a central system to manage capacities and patient allocation efficiently. That has to count for something. Anecdotally I also heard before the crisis that some of our hospitals are very eager to ventilate patients who are all but gone anyway, if there is some wider truth to that maybe our personnel has wider experience with the kind of care that corona cases require.
I wouldn't say our politicians reacted super quick, but once Italy gave everyone a stern warning Merkel came out with decisive language and said that 70% could catch it and that this will be the biggest challenge since WW2, maybe that made the most vulnerable, for whom the virus is most lethal take better precautions than their UK counterparts and their enviroment.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/coronavirus-kliniken-anzahl-betten-1.4865776
The UK is expecting 18,000 ventilators by the end of the week. And it's built extra hospitals in key locations (including one of the largest in the world in London) which have yet to be used.
There's still plenty of capacity in terms of facilities. It's the doctors and nurses who are in short supply. But we've had 750,000 people volunteer to help the NHS so hopefully that will help.
Of course, you can't. The volunteers will be doing the menial/admin stuff. That frees up the doctors and nurses to make more efficient use of their the expertise. It's about making life easier for the medical staff who really matter.I hope it works out, but I doubt you can staff an ICU unit with volunteers.
Of course, you can't. They'll be doing the admin stuff to free up the doctors/nurses who have the expertise.
Of course it is possible to train nurses to operate in ICU in couple of weeks. Volunteers would obviously be working elsewhere.I hope it works out, but I doubt you can staff an ICU unit with volunteers.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...nds-britains-manufacturers-with-greatest-test
This article also sounds a lot less optimistic about the numbers.
Supply and demand also dictated that the UK had a particular number of medical staff pre-covid 19. Just like every other country.But how many do? Supply and demand dictate that countries only train about as many doctors and nurses for that purpose as they have regular capacity and I have no idea how quickly and efficiently you can give people tl;dr training so they can cope at least with the corona-specific stuff.
Of course it is possible to train nurses to operate in ICU in couple of weeks. Volunteers would obviously be working elsewhere.
There isn't some German mystery or masterclass at play. They do more testing and better protect elderly and have bigger ICU capacity at the moment. Most countries don't have a shortage of ICU units, yet. They will have later, but it is also possible to increase the capacity in coming months. The death rate is lower do to more testing and tracing contacts and younger infected.
Supply and demand also dictated that the UK had a particular number of medical staff pre-covid 19. Just like every other country.
Eh?
God you’re a weird bunch in here.
I wonder why? I've seen this earlier pinned in this article:It's the doctors and nurses who are in short supply. .
Boris himself lifted his fist in the air celebrating when he voted for and succeeded to block pay the 1% rise for nurses in 2007.NHS workers were given a three year pay freeze to pay for the financial crisis, then trainee nurses bursaries were converted to repayable loans charged at 5.4% and 6.1% interest when the bank rate has been less than 1% for a decade, as a result there was a 30% reduction in trainee nurses in 2018, and this week NHS staff have to crowdfund for £400,000 of PPE in the absence of medical supplies and lost the claimed EU memo from January (after 4 meetings).
Yes. A good healthcare system. But not as good as the UK's according to both the WHO and Commonwealth Fund.I never said that. I assume Germnay is one of the countries with better healthcare in the world but I don't think our ICU capacity is some form of "they knew all along this would happen", I also think we have been massively lucky that our initial outbreak wasn't very rapid, giving us time to react and learn from Italy's misery.
How Taiwan have managed so far
That's the root cause, yes. But the effect is what I'm talking about, and the effect is what's on-topic.I wonder why? I've seen this earlier pinned in this article:
Boris himself lifted his fist in the air celebrating when he voted for and succeeded to block pay the 1% pay rise for nurses in 2007.
And 4316 new cases (4805 yesterday). I'm really happy to see this.525 deaths in Italy (681 yesterday)
The future has to be looked at and potential situations that may rise.
The cold hard reality is, lockdown for any serious length of time can't happen, it will cost too many lives. If for argument sake we can close down the world for around a year/until this virus dies or mutates to low risk and still have a healthy situation to come out of it, ofcourse I'd be firmly on board with it no matter what but that won't be the case.
Okay then, let's say for argument sake we lock down till the virus either completely dies or heads to very low risk, and for further argument sake let's say that takes a year.
The world reopens with 60% of businesses gone (and let's be clear, that's a wildly optimistic estimate), who pays the taxes that keep the NHS running? Who pays the taxes that keep the many many families who can't find a job because there are none fed?
And I'm not "apathetic" about the deaths that will occur, not least because at some point a lockdown will actually start causing more deaths in the moment too, get to that in a second. I've already said I'm on board with the measures at the minute, it's just not remotely sustainable for this to be a long term thing. Even factoring out the devastating long term effects, hospitals will at some point while the virus is still prelevant be inundated with patients who attempt suicide, are victims of domestic violence, come into complication due to severe stess etc (all of those things are going up already) and that will keep rising further while the country are on house arrest, what will that do? Further take away staff from Covid areas, take more ventilators so someone with the virus will be denied it, in others words totally defeating the object of lock down in the first place.
I want in a perfect world no lives lost atall but tragically that's not possible, so the next best thing is as many lives saved as humanly possible, a lock down for any serious amount of time won't be how that's achieved.
I fully agree with the measures presently because at this moment in time they are protecting the NHS and saving lives, but it will get to a point where it starts doing the complete opposite, not just in the long run but the immediate present as explained above.
Christ. If I catch this I’m fooked
Yes. A good healthcare system. But not as good as the UK's according to both the WHO and Commonwealth Fund.
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf
https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/
Luckily, the UK does have enough beds and volunteers are helping to free up time.The first link appears to use data from the previous millennium. But that being said I'm not informed enough to adequately compare the level of health care in different countries.
And I don't really see the relevance of the second study in terms of the current crisis. to me it seems like (assuming doctors in rich countries are all fairly capable) it's all about capacity in this case. I mean who cares it a doctor could give you better counselling than elsewhere if they don't have a bed or time to treat you?
The first link appears to use data from the previous millennium. But that being said I'm not informed enough to adequately compare the level of health care in different countries.
I don't really see the relevance of the second study in terms of the current crisis. to me it seems like (assuming doctors in rich countries are all fairly capable) it's all about capacity in this case. I mean who cares it a doctor could give you better counselling than elsewhere if they don't have a bed or time to treat you?
When the number of people who needs a ventilator (or a similar lung breathing machine) exceeds the number of available machines, then you are f*cked and you start seeing a spike in the number of deaths relative to the number in critical condition.
Another important factor to help "contain" the disease is to keep the R0 below 1 --> Lockdown, all non-critical jobs or tasks etc should be stopped or done from home. People in public wearing masks etc.
As long as you are not going above the ICU/ventilator threshold in a set region and the R0 is going down or is below 1, then you have done as well as you can. If you are still seeing an increasing R0 2-3 weeks after measures are taken, then you are not doing enough.
