Today for the first time I felt what the Italian medics have been talking about. This is just absolutely awful and the hospital staff are going to have massive mental health issues after this . People are dying left right and centre and they are dying so fast . We get lots of pneumonia and flu in the UK but hardly ever do patients go from no oxygen to maximum possible requirement within hours . UK is going to have thousands and thousands of deaths unfortunately
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
And there's me writing to Tweet ...
Anyway, the law's not on his side, as the medics have the final say. But the patient's wish for resus to be attempted must be documented if he's been asked and has given his answer.Thanks for including us. Consider the northern border closed from now on.First time I see this. Good news. I read the news in a swedish newspaper, Expressen or Aftonbladet. I am not a person to do battles in forums Reg
Also, I have to admit, I am still concerned (!) I hear what you say about Sw/st.hlm and I hope you are correct. As you have said yourself, nobody has the answer yet, although myself, I believe in the Korean way with testing, search and isolate.
For Norway, we have not been that good at all aspects. But with the resources we have and the bad planning ahead, things have gone pretty well. But we still need to be able to test a LOT more to be able to open society. And there are still dark numbers here and too early too tell even with the positive development the last days.
I see they have developed a quick and cheap testing method in Sweden that is close to being ready. We have also developed our own methods that we are pushing to use, but there are other things you need as well that needs to be fabricated. I hope after Tegnell the chief epidemiolog had a meeting with Norway and Denmarks experts, that we start to cooperate. I think that if we cooperated, we could use each other strengths to the benefit of each nation.
At least we have paper factories and can print a lot of toilet paper if needed
Well I can understand and I won't blame those people who "did the right thing" for blaming those who made a different choice, but sitting on my ass at home I find it impossible to blame people who don't sacrifice themselves for a society that never valued them.
Would the bold make a difference in practical terms?
I was under the impression that regardless of whether there's a DNR or not, a doctor isn't obliged to give treatment he does not believe is in the patient's interests? In which case the reality (I'd have thought) is that a 95 year old is unlikely to be put through that ordeal, even if he has indicated that he wants to be. Would the letter really carry that much weight?
I may be entirely wrong, mind.
From what I've been told, that's what happens here. Normally, it is the physician overruling the wishes of "family" that the person be resusitated.
No, at the end of the day you're not wrong. But having asked him if he wants a DNR and him having clearly refused, that needs to be properly-documented. Depends what his overall health is like - some people still have good and interesting lives at 95 (my neighbour, for instance).
I'm just concerned that this behaviour is actually a policy which is being covered-up. Worried that people's right to life is being denied in a 'quiet', underhand manner. Obviously, I completely lack any relevant expertise, and I'm not claiming this is part of a cull...rather, I'm concerned about the longstanding trend of dismissing the elderly - and their wishes - as unimportant; apparently they're a hindrance to the rest of us, who are, of course, immortal...
Quality control
Get yer tits out, get yer tits out, get yer tits out for the lads.
I live near Minden nice town.
Me too, but they were early and the privacy laws here are so much stronger than Korea, we still can’t even use CCTV properly, not even to catch footy hooligans.
As for toilet paper, I used to work in Vestby and lived in Moss... think I prefer the smell of shit to smell of that place. Hahha
France update:
- 1873 new cases.
- 357 new deaths among hospitalized patients; we are still updating the deaths that occured in nursing homes 161 have been added.
- 8079 total deaths. 5889 in hospitals and 2189 in nursing homes and other health structures.
- 140 more people in ICU.
- 1873 new cases.
- 357 new deaths among hospitalized patients; we are still updating the deaths that occured in nursing homes 161 have been added.
- 8079 total deaths. 5889 in hospitals and 2189 in nursing homes and other health structures.
- 140 more people in ICU.
Brother was born in Rinteln, even nicer!!
Ireland:
Deaths still not spiraling out of control here yet.
Deaths still not spiraling out of control here yet.
That's happened for many years, Steve, as you know. My mother died in 1994, she had a chronic heart problem but no other health issues (never smoked, didn't drink, not overweight) and at 65 years old she was deemed too ancient to be cared for in a cardiac unit. We took her home and she died within a few days. At 61 when she had her massive heart attack, she should have had a bypass done but it wasn't even considered.
Nowadays, that's changed - she'd get proper treatment, as she could have had surgery and recovered well and age isn't a reason to deny appropriate treatment. However, for the very old, things can still be hit or miss and that's definitely going to be the case with the current crisis.
Obviously, if you have a 90-year-old and a 50-year old both needing vents, all other things being equal you're going to give it to the 50-year-old. But often, things aren't equal, and the older person could be generally fitter than the younger one.
In a context where the pandemic sees the health service overwhelmed, it's inevitable that the right to life of some will be at least undermined, isn't it?
Put bluntly, in a scenario where treatment capacity is overwhelmed doctors will be put in a position where they effectively have to knowingly allow some patients to die, not because they couldn't be saved but because there are other patients with a better chance of being saved. And those decisions will inevitably overwhelmingly favour the young over the old.
Leaving aside what the right official guidelines around this issue are or what the best way to communicate it is, the de facto reality is that the lives of elderly patients are likely to be assessed differently to the lives of younger patients as treatment is prioritised. And the worse the situation gets, the harsher and more reductive those judgement calls will be. Which is part of the horror facing the health service.
Put bluntly, in a scenario where treatment capacity is overwhelmed doctors will be put in a position where they effectively have to knowingly allow some patients to die, not because they couldn't be saved but because there are other patients with a better chance of being saved. And those decisions will inevitably overwhelmingly favour the young over the old.
Leaving aside what the right official guidelines around this issue are or what the best way to communicate it is, the de facto reality is that the lives of elderly patients are likely to be assessed differently to the lives of younger patients as treatment is prioritised. And the worse the situation gets, the harsher and more reductive those judgement calls will be. Which is part of the horror facing the health service.
Thanks for including us. Consider the northern border closed from now on.
Hahaha, sorry, I have nothing against Finland
It was just an example. You and Iceland as well - of course! Actually I had one heck of an experience including winter resort, tequila and various escapades the one time I visited Finland Actually one guy from Finland set me on fire with vodka+a lighter, but the rest was great (visit during military service in northern norway).Absolutely, that’s what happened in Spain and Italy and it’s horrific.
Are the UK already sending out DNR’s or is that online bullshit?
As a Doctor who is having multiple such conversations a day with patients and relatives I can tell you that it is one of the hardest parts of my job . Resuscitation is not a nice thing though and if something happened to me then I would probably not want to be resuscitated myself
Yep, warfarin for life
Thanks for that post.
Unfortunately, I don't actually have elderly relatives to be concerned about but feel very strongly about the subject.To be honest I have never been in Rinteln, but Minden, Bad Oeynhausen, Bückeburg, Espelkamp yes
Yep, no ibuprofen then. It also thins the blood.
I remember Kingsley Barracks Minden
Ok I’ve ignored all news for the weekend.
More positive news only please. I’ve heard Italy are looking past peak?
More positive news only please. I’ve heard Italy are looking past peak?
I was on Brilique a blood thinner, even a slight bang anywhere on the body produced a bruise. Wishing you all the Best through this mad time.
It's no wonder the cases are so much higher - double is crazy, but probably "normal" though.
The lockdown happened so much later in the UK - it's negligent on the part of the govt.
That Cheltenham took place (250k), the Liverpool Atletico took place (3k travelled from Europe's 2nd hotspot), Rangers vs Leverkusen, etc, in the week where it was going mad in Europe........it beggars belief.
Ah ok, thanks
You know what would really be uplifting to the nation?
She could cause rapturous laughter and applause throughout the land, if only she went with
"During this difficult time of emergency and challenge, it has never been more important for one to consider the great sacrifice made by those on the front lines of confronting this terrible affliction, therefore I offer only one piece of advice to you my subjects; stay the feck at home twats"
Leo Varadkar has re-registered with the Medical Council for a GP/Caretaker Taoiseach combo role.
He'll be taking phone consults one day a week apparently.
He'll be taking phone consults one day a week apparently.
If the pandemic were renamed the Covid 19 Plague, you can bet that a hell of a lot more people would stay at home.
That’s where the old boy was.
A classy move I think. Coming off as much better than a lot of world leaders. I'm no big supporter usually, but it's good to see it.
It's a triage situation, really. It's like doctors on a battlefield - the worst casualties are left in favour of the ones with the best chance of survival, because resources have to be allocated where they can do the most good.
Mixed (though I suppose ultimately positive) thoughts on that.
On the one hand, my immediate reaction is to recoil from such a PR friendly move from an extremely PR-conscious politician.
On the other hand, we've seen a SF senator rightly praised for re-registering so it would be rather unfair not to give due credit to Varadkar for doing similar. Plus in a situation where managing the collective mood of the country is important, there's very real value in seeing the leader of the country "play his part".
A report published in British Medical Journal suggests as many as 78% of all people infected by the Covid-19 virus show no symptoms.
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj...ampaign=usage&utm_content=daily&utm_term=text
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj...ampaign=usage&utm_content=daily&utm_term=text
Norway sends 20-25 doctors, nurses and staff to help out in Italy. Not much, but at least something is offered to help.
what the hell was the point of that message from the queen
People are confusing R0 with R.