SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Fully Fledged said:
She is. She's diluting the message making it look like it is one rule for them and one rule for everybody else. It gives the people travelling to the beach an excuse.
Furthermore she should have know how this would look and be played out in the media.
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The rule is stupid though. She's not harmed anyone, people wanting to stay in their second homes isn't a problem for me.
 
Brwned said:
Yes it's imperfect data. There's a reason you choose to focus on the imperfections.
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There's a reason they are going on worst case, absolutely, it's the safest way.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/de...-Outbreak-of-coronavirus-disease-COVID-19.pdf

Hopefully the rate of hospitalisation in the 80+ bracket is closer to accurate on the above, which would mean that Imperial vastly overrated the rate of hospitalisation. And considering how many cases go unnoticed, I'm desperately hoping all the percentages turn out to be even less than those. feck me I hope so.
 
fergieisold said:
The rule is stupid though. She's not harmed anyone, people wanting to stay in their second homes isn't a problem for me.
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Ditto.

People are desperate to get pissed about anything right now, use some common sense about what to get angry about. BBQ at her mates with 15 others... get fecking angry.

Off to Summer house in a car, isolated from rest of World... no big deal.

Use the same standards for everyone.
 
fergieisold said:
The rule is stupid though. She's not harmed anyone, people wanting to stay in their second homes isn't a problem for me.
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Ask those in Southern Italy if people going from highly infected areas into areas with a lessened healthcare system to stay in their second homes is a problem or not.
 
Dancfc said:
I totally agree that any death is a tragedy and we should do our utmost to preserve life. This is also not about wanting to go back to the pub or go to the cinema. I could quite easily shelve all those unimportant things.

This is about having a life to lead after this (which in turn will save thousands of lives in itself due to significantly more people being able to feed their kids) 60% of business will fail if this goes on longer than short term. Do you even consider what world that would leave us with?

I have 2 neices who will miss out on a significant part of their education. Do you understand the implications of this further down the line?

Does anyone really understand the mental health aspect?

It's all very well talking about funding an NHS, but if no one can pay tax then who is going to fund it? Another country who has the same problem?

People seem to think that without lockdown until there is a vaccine that this disease is going to kill millions,l. It's simply not true and never has been. Yes, you get isolated sad cases and I feel the greatest sympathy

At some point caution becomes counter productive and won't only fail to protect the NHS and save lives, but do the total opposite.
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I could give two shits about anyones education. People can recover from that. Just like the economy can recover. You know who can’t recover? The people dying. So that should be the main priority which is saving lives not your nieces education.

Nobody has even talked about going into lockdown until Vaccine comes. But reducing the number of cases is the priority and having a lockdown will help that.

You say it’s not about wanting to go back to the pub or cinema? Then what is it about? These are the businesses that you talking about that will struggle, but you don’t want to go there. So what is it?
 
Fully Fledged said:
Ask those in Southern Italy if people going from highly infected areas into areas with a lessened healthcare system to stay in their second homes is a problem or not.
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Hush with your facts. Won't someone think of those poor unfortunates who have to stay in just one of their multiple homes?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
There's a reason they are going on worst case, absolutely, it's the safest way.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/de...-Outbreak-of-coronavirus-disease-COVID-19.pdf

Hopefully the rate of hospitalisation is closer to accurate on the above, which would mean that Imperial vastly overrated the rate of hospitalisation. feck me I hope so.
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What we know in the UK currently is there are 41,903 confirmed cases in hospitals, and at least 2,249 critical cases. So 5.3% of those hospitalised go to critical care. Of those 2,249, 1,559 are in critical care. The UK only has the capacity for 3x that so without the lockdown it's hard to see how the healthcare system wouldn't have been overloaded, which is what has the serious knock-on effects and the spike in deaths. Nurses aren't saying they're already on their knees for nothing.

And your report also points to 4% of cases going to ICU, which is the key focus in the Imperial modelling. The UK aren't worried about hospital capacity they're worried about ICU capacity.
 
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RedSky said:
Feel free to march over to your nearest hospital and tell the NHS staff and patients your perspective. Sorry, but that's a shocking attitude to have, like inherently selfish and despicable. I'm actually a bit astounded that you're rationlising your kids future as a reason to accept millions of people dying.
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Like I said, I am playing devils advocate here.

I am worried that there might not be much of a world after this if we remain in lockdown too long. It's a hard choice, I know, but plunge many more millions into poverty than would die of the virus might be a long term better outcome.
 
Drawfull said:
The rule isn't stupid. The rule is to prevent the further spread of the disease between regions. Look what happened in Italy, and to a lesser extent in Spain when every fecker ran for their bolt holes.
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If they ran and stayed in their bolt holes, away from everyone and isolated. Yes, it's stupid.

If they fled to hang out in another smaller town around their population... not stupid.
 
RedSky said:
Feel free to march over to your nearest hospital and tell the NHS staff and patients your perspective. Sorry, but that's a shocking attitude to have, like inherently selfish and despicable. I'm actually a bit astounded that you're rationlising your kids future as a reason to accept millions of people dying.
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I won't tar everyone who gives such opinions with the same brush but from the facebook idiots i know it seems to be people who are just bored of the lockdown. Which yeah great you're bored so let people die. Individualistic a-holes.

It also appears to be the brexiteers/anti climate change folk who are suddenly oh so concerned with their children's future and the economy.
 
Spain

6023 new cases, total 130759
674 deaths, 12418 total

Deaths haven't been this low for about 10 days, and two weeks for cases so perhaps a real sign of a drop but it's weekend and things can increase in other regions in Spain
 
fergieisold said:
The rule is stupid though. She's not harmed anyone, people wanting to stay in their second homes isn't a problem for me.
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I can understand it from both opinions, but worst case scenario, if one of her family did have Covid she'd be taking it to possibly an area that:

1. Wasn't infected before she travelled there.
2. Doesn't have the same hospital infrastucture and so would struggle badly with an outbreak.

From her perspective leaving the city would enable her to better protect her family, with the added bonus of being able to go somewhere they could relax in. Which would be good from her mental state.

But you can't be a top government official ordering the entire population to follow rules and then break them yourself a few days later.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Ditto.

People are desperate to get pissed about anything right now, use some common sense about what to get angry about. BBQ at her mates with 15 others... get fecking angry.

Off to Summer house in a car, isolated from rest of World... no big deal.

Use the same standards for everyone.
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Dont fecking travel! Its the one guarenteed way to spread the virus to less affected areas.
Im sure residents of that areas would tell her to stay away
 
Smores said:
It also appears to be the brexiteers/anti climate change folk who are suddenly oh so concerned with their children's future and the economy.
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Sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither.
 
Dans said:
Like I said, I am playing devils advocate here.

I am worried that there might not be much of a world after this if we remain in lockdown too long. It's a hard choice, I know, but plunge many more millions into poverty than would die of the virus might be a long term better outcome.
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That's exactly what my mother says and she's a famed drama queen.

We might not be able to travel abroad for a few years as often as we did before and the Government will need to support small businesses that might be in financial difficulty since the lockdown occurred but humans are extremely resourceful and most people in our society will be determined to kick start the country again. It might actually give us a kick up the arse to respect what we have.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Ditto.

People are desperate to get pissed about anything right now, use some common sense about what to get angry about. BBQ at her mates with 15 others... get fecking angry.

Off to Summer house in a car, isolated from rest of World... no big deal.

Use the same standards for everyone.
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Any extra unnecessary travel risks extra accidents that will require emergency services taken away from where they are needed for one thing.

Plus you don't know if these people are carriers of the virus as you can be asymptomatic.

Plus you can't have people of standing, proclaiming the rules then breaking them!
 
Sandikan said:
Any extra unnecessary travel risks extra accidents that will require emergency services taken away from where they are needed for one thing.

Plus you don't know if these people are carriers of the virus as you can be asymptomatic.

Plus you can't have people of standing, proclaiming the rules then breaking them!
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Storm in a teacup for me, getting angry at fellow citizens that are social distancing and isolating seems a sure fire way to get angry at everything.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Here's that lack of common sense again though. Symptomless and isolated, how on Earth is she gonna spread it?
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Who said she was that isolated?

Local people are irate that holidaymakers and second home owners have ignored the warnings from the chief medical officer to stay at home. The main street was described as being like a motorway and many second homes are full up,” they said.

It seems she was in the middle of nowhere is a notion plucked from thin air?
She would still need to shop etc
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Has the virus suddenly changed so that is can jump from a person isolated in a car, then in a house, to the general public?

Explain the science.
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She's going to stay inside at all times? No plan on going to the shop or anything? Has enough food to last her months no doubt. Hmmm.
 
Dans said:
Sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither.
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Why would i be disappointed i said not everyone. On the other hand it's always useful to look at who shares your opinion to see if you've misjudged, in this case it's the daily mail opinion peice nuts and the worst of fox news. Not the best company.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
If they ran and stayed in their bolt holes, away from everyone and isolated. Yes, it's stupid.

If they fled to hang out in another smaller town around their population... not stupid.
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In line with guidance she stayed within her own household group and observed social distancing with anyone she was in passing in the village.”
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She was literally walking through the village. That is what the Scottish Government have said. So she didn't just stay in her bolthole.
 
fergieisold said:
The rule is stupid though. She's not harmed anyone, people wanting to stay in their second homes isn't a problem for me.
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How is a rule about no unnecessary travel stupid?

What happens if you have a car accident? You're tying up resource very selfishly.

How do you think this virus spread? Through people travelling. Cut down travel you cut down the spread.

Are you one of the sunbathers? Are you going out doing your usual? Why not? Because youve accepted the risks and taken a reasonable decision to do your bit.

That's what this health woman should have done. Especially as she's instructing people to!
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Has the virus suddenly changed so that is can jump from a person isolated in a car, then in a house, to the general public?

Explain the science.
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Travelling increases the risk shouldn't need to be explained. Going on a long distance is particularly bad because it can infect a whole new area.

Stopping for petrol.
Shopping for food in the new area.
The risk of needing medical care.
Exercising.

Of course if you're completely isolated there's no risk of spreading it but if enough people have this mindset one of them is more than likely to transmit the disease.
 
Fully Fledged said:
She was literally walking through the village. That is what the Scottish Government have said. So she didn't just stay in her bolthole.
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So she went out in the open and stayed away from everyone. Ok.

Look, if that pisses you off, so be it, but I think there's plenty of other more common sense things to be pissed off about that actual do carry risks.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
She doesn't go for milk, she's not fecking stupid, she brought provisions from the city with her I'd imagine.
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And here lies your problem. You're already having to scenario bust and explain it away when the purpose of her trip was really unnecessary.

Just stay at home. I'm really not sure why people can't do this without having to come up with ideas which involve them leaving the house to do X,Y and Z then trying to justify it.
 
RedSky said:
That's exactly what my mother says and she's a famed drama queen.

We might not be able to travel abroad for a few years as often as we did before and the Government will need to support small businesses that might be in financial difficulty since the lockdown occurred but humans are extremely resourceful and most people in our society will be determined to kick start the country again. It might actually give us a kick up the arse to respect what we have.
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Thanks!

I couldn't care less about not being able to travel, in fact I think the world will be a better place with far less travel. I also think countries should become more self sufficient, that globalisation has plenty of negative effects on society.

But currently, lot's of SME businesses owners risk losing their businesses already, big companies are laying off workers, freelancers have no work, shop owners have no business etc etc etc

How should this all be built up again? The ones who can help and stimulate a rebuild are the banks, but then it will be all on their terms. Disaster.
 
Neighbours just all piled into the car together with the kids and gone out for the third day running. Social distancing has taught me who to avoid forever after all this is over. Sick of selfish arrogant fecking wankers.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Selfish, heartless bastards.
They don't give a feck about 5 year old kids dying on their own and having to be buried the same way or about nurses and doctors risking their lives in apocalyptic conditions. As long as they can have a day at the beach then all's fine in the world.
Calling them idiots is giving them an out. They aren't too thick to understand what is going on they just don't care. As long as it doesn't affect them personally why should their lives be disrupted.
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100% agree mate.
 
Flamingo Purple said:
Travelling increases the risk shouldn't need to be explained. Going on a long distance is particularly bad because it can infect a whole new area.

Stopping for petrol.
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I shop for petrol at a card pump.

Flamingo Purple said:
Shopping for food in the new area.
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Take food with you from the City, or buy online. Get guy/girl to leave outside door.

Flamingo Purple said:
The risk of needing medical care.
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Fair point, unlikely for a fit healthy individual but ok, I'd imagine that'd be a worse strain on the health service in the City though.

Flamingo Purple said:
Exercising.
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Where are the risks here?
 
fergieisold said:
The rule is stupid though. She's not harmed anyone, people wanting to stay in their second homes isn't a problem for me.
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Except she is the Chief Medical officer, the rules are simple. If she is flouting those rules regardless of how unlikely it is she'll harm someone by doing this.
Other people will look to her example and think, well 'I'll do this and I'll do that, she's the Chief Medical officer, I'll just go to the beach not harming anyone right?

Then record numbers at the fecking beach because everyone has the same idea.
Akin to what happened the weekend before the lockdown.
 
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