So, how much do we think that China and Iran are lying about the number of infections/deaths? I assume that China is lying a lot, while Iran is totally lying.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
What would be the problem with them (except taking a month or so to arrive)?
Well they did. And they did it to stop mass hoarding of a very limited supply at the time.
Not much you can do about that.
https://khn.org/morning-breakout/ho...-obamas-team-eerily-mirrors-current-outbreak/Trump blames Obama for lack of pandemic prep
Pressed by a reporter over why the US was not more prepared for the pandemic, Mr Trump blamed the Obama administration, saying "the shelves were empty, we had no ammunition or medical supplies".
He also claimed he inherited "broken" tests, though it is unclear what he meant as the previous administration would not have developed such tests.
"I always knew that pandemics are one of the worst things that could happen," Mr Trump said.
This guy
Obama's team literally prepared Trump for a pandemic
They don't meet quality standards.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ive-masks-imported-china-200329141715106.html
There have been loads of returns.
Masks shipped by containers also have a high risk of spreading the disease as there are some reports that the virus can stay there for 17 days and usually masks arrive quicker.
He says it (the quiet part) how it is!
Fecking hell, 30.000 new cases and 1.300 dead today in the US. How much has this damned virus been bubbling under the surface over there? Ok, per capita they're still behind Italy and Spain, but this does not look promising.
UK public are thick as feck to be fair. My daughter bought her 1st house today with her boyfriend and I took some of her stuff to her new home (I left it outside) as she had moved in with her aunty as she works in the care community and her mum is at risk with the 12 weeks letter etc. Was horrendous not being able to help her to get herself straight in her new home but driving there 3 times from ours there were people gathered around parks and you could tell how close they were.
You can blame the government also but feck me if natural selection exists then these dumb fecks would be in peril.
You can blame the government also but feck me if natural selection exists then these dumb fecks would be in peril.
Yeah I was going to say historically and was thinking more Beijing and Shanghai tbh. Apart from the white out ruining your photos at Victoria Peak in Hong Kong, never had any particular pollution issues in Asia.
This region need education and liberation, badly. More badly than a corona virus patient needs ventilator. People living and spending their entire lives on the footpaths of Mumbai. Lack of civic facilities, food....Its like a ticking time bomb.
I don’t even want to imagine what will happen in case of an outbreak. It is a horrible horrible thought. I hope there is a Vaccine sooner rather than later and made available to all parts of the world, especially densely populated areas.
#MaskWars - war within the war.
It’s playing out exactly like movie ‘Contagion’ scripted it would.
It’s playing out exactly like movie ‘Contagion’ scripted it would.
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Dunno about China, but I don’t think Iranian authorities are necessarily lying, just they’ve been so completely overwhelmed by what’s happened that they are really struggling to get a grasp of the true magnitude of their crisis.
Btw I think what’s happened in certain other countries since the virus exploded across Iran provides a good perspective on the nature of the Iranian approach. Many people who were a bit shocked by Tehran’s seemingly bungled initial response might be feeling a bit chastened by subsequent developments elsewhere (I include myself in that).
Yes, but it is yet to be proven how much time the virus can survive on surfaces and especially damp and wet ones. It is still very early to conclude how much days/hours it lives there and generally many countries have blocked the import of goods from China.
Of course loads of tests and masks are distributed from there, but usually in controlled batches and from the governments itself. As a personal user I wouldn't advice anyone to order masks now for himself from some random manufacturer, with dubious quality.
Yeah that's a good point. No wonder they all live to 100.
I was told that the test betweent the real proper mask and the fake ones is the burn test. Lighter will do.
Fake or inferior masks have a paper substitute.
I'm not sure how much our hospital system could expand in terms of equipment and space, but we have a new tower under construction that I'm sure they wish would be finished this month instead of December. In NC, like everywhere else, is that the urban-rural divide in health care is huge. The Triangle has about 750 ICU beds and could probably expand that significantly with all the ORs associated with the three major health systems. Most of eastern and western NC will have to go to Greenville or Charlotte/Winston-Salem to get ICU beds.
At least there's been a delay in cases flooding into hospitals in the non-NY/La/WA/MI states. It gives them time to prepare and convert/expand treatment areas. Duke was able to figure out ways to sterilize N95 masks for reuse.
Trump blames Obama for lack of pandemic prep
Pressed by a reporter over why the US was not more prepared for the pandemic, Mr Trump blamed the Obama administration, saying "the shelves were empty, we had no ammunition or medical supplies".
He also claimed he inherited "broken" tests, though it is unclear what he meant as the previous administration would not have developed such tests.
"I always knew that pandemics are one of the worst things that could happen," Mr Trump said.
This guy
And there's the election won right there. 4 more years.
I don't need to be a doctor to figure out that masks might work to stop the spread of a disease transmitted in part by coughing. No mask is 100% safe (unless we're talking about lab grade masks) but anything that stops or can lower the viral load is beneficial.
Since you asked for studies, here are some:
Any type of general mask use (including homemade masks) is likely to decrease viral exposure and infection risk on a population level, in spite of imperfect fit and imperfect adherence.
The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.
A double layer of 100% cotton cloth is about 70% as effective as a surgical mask at capturing small particles (up to five times smaller than coronavirus)
Some experts have argued that non-medical fabric masks might make a dent in transmission risk. “Something doesn’t have to be 100% effective to be beneficial,” –Dr. Anthony Fauci, the US director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
CDC considering recommending general public wear face coverings in public
NYT: It’s Time to Make Your Own Face Mask
National Review: A Lesson from Japan’s Fight against Coronavirus: Masks Help
CNN: Asia may have been right about coronavirus and face masks, and the rest of the world is coming around
Fox News: The Government needs to stop lying to us about why we shouldn’t wear a mask
Yale Study: The Case for Universal Cloth Mask Adoption & Policies to Increase the Supply of Medical Masks. (hopefully that's enough experts for you)
Oh and go listen to W.H.O. who have been 3-weeks behind the curve on everything on this crisis.
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Anthony Yarde, pro british boxer has lost his Dad and Grandmother to this in the space of a couple weeks.
17 seems a bit too much. To be fair, it could be and there are many unknowns, but from what I have seen the consensus seems to be that it can survive from a few hours to a few days (in metal). Masks are already inside a package, and I believe in packages the virus doesn't survive that long.
Fair point about defective masks.
They are having circa 100 deaths per day (and only 3.3k in total) which is kind of unbelievable. They were hit very early and very hard, some of their high level officials die (which probably means that it was very spread), they have the same population as Germany, are in relative poverty, have large families, yet somehow their deaths lag behind Italy/Spain/France/UK. Looks kind of fishy.
China is definitely lying. They added new measures (like closing theaters) while reporting 0 new cases.
You definitely took some time to come up with that, but neither of those is a proper study.
This is a study:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/153567601001500204
Some of the masks during those tests show less than 5-10% efficiency which means they do close to feck all.
So when you try to spread false information and 'sense of security' of the effect of wearing masks, I suggest you try to dig up a bit deeper on the subject.
I wouldn't even entertain that. If you have something constructive to say, backed with some evidence I'm perfectly fine with hearing you out.
On deaths, also behind UK and France. And deaths is a better stat than infections considering the difference in testings (the US tests in a day as much as UK has tested in total).
It does not look good though, especially with some states who are still relatively untouched and are going to be hell in a few weeks. It will be quite interesting here, the peak will last far longer than in European countries, primarily cause different states will peak very differently (for example, when Florida will peak, New York will have passed the worst).
There are many conflicting reports, but so far no one has come out with definite evidence of how long in can live on metal and damp surfaces as we don't have that many tests and information.
By the look of it China has contained it and not many reports of newly registered cases (however I'd take that with a pinch of salt) and whilst the risk of contamination of the products might be really low(or maybe non-existent) the quality control is very poor, especially when you consider the high demand and the little to no time those masks needs to be manufactured, sealed and shipped.
Generally it's advisable to buy masks that are imported from the government at batches so if they are crap you at least can regulate and stop the distribution right away, rather than buy it from unknown sources and distribute it to friends/family, etc.
Surely that works to their advantage? It'll give them an opportunity to re-direct & focus resources on the places that need them the most.
Me either
Yes, according to the Noggie middle eastern correspondent who's regularly been in touch with the local doctors, they only have so many testing kits to make positive confirmations of the cases, that they have no chance of giving a correct number. After hiding the outbreak before the February elections, people apparently didn't really believe the authorities when they actually came clean with the impending virus threat, and so the virus was able to grab a foothold.
Looking ahead, could this catastrophe turn Iran into a slightly less pronounced theocracy? I mean, the country has a pretty well-educated portion of secular minds, and the religious nutters seem intent on self-extinction by licking corona-infested religious artifacts, so the aftermath might be the right moment to bridge some gaps between Iran and the western world.
Pure common sense says that in addition to handwashing with soap and physical distancing, wearing a face mask will help reduce chances of covid19 infection, IF properly used.
Thats enough for me, and most others who spend time thinking about it. However, you're welcome to continue your copy/paste 'peer review' war with @Suedesi, I just think it's a waste of your time.
If you don't want to wear one, don't, nobody will force you: it's not even mandatory law even in mask wearing cultures like Japan or S.Korea. Good luck!
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She's said they've had people transferred in from there before. Wouldn't surprise me.
Hopefully they'll tell us how they did it. Them folks at Duke are smart.
To be fair, 33% is hardly anything, especially if most people are wearing them. 1/3 of those who wear them not getting infected is a big deal, especially considering the spread of the virus (so not infected, do not spread the virus). Additionally, with a large part (maybe up to a few times of people diagnosed) showing no symptoms or just mild symptoms, if those people wear masks, then they won't infect the others.
Finally, the experiment was done when the mannequin was bombed with dust of contagious particles for half an hour. In many scenarios, like working, or going to supermarket/pharmacy, you are still keeping social distance and probably staying less than 30 minutes, which might mean that those masks offer more than 33% protection.
So, I would say that it is a good idea to save the respirators for medical staff, and make mandatory for everyone else to wear surgical masks (which offer less protection, but are cheaper and easier to produce).
Distancing, washing your hands and not touching your face, eyes, nose is perfectly fine for anyone.
If you inhale even one tiny droplet you can be infected with the virus. Some of the high quality masks have much better effect at reducing the chance of an infection, but a very small percentage of people are wearing them.
You are free to wear one yourself of course, and that's a personal choice, but people should be aware of the negative effects of masks and that it also builds bacteria and you might come in contact with another virus/bacteria whilst you wear them.
IF properly used is a big if, because most of the people that I see every day - don't.
Masks are useful in heavy polluted areas (such as China, Japan, Italy) because they stop dust, allergens and the big particles that you inhale daily, but so far I haven't seen a study that says wearing one will not get you infected with the virus.
Fair points. Like you, I do not trust China's numbers and that they have contained it.
I ordered some at ebay, waiting, then not touching them for another few days. I barely go out nowadays, but when I go to the supermarket, I would prefer to have a mask.
If done right, it could. So they can send doctors from one state to another. However, I don't think that is going to happen, the federal government is failing to coordinate states to buy ventilators, cannot imagine them being organized so well as to send doctors and nurses from New York to Florida for example. On the other side, they can send these hospital ships, build new hospitals and so on, if the peak does not happen at the same time in most states.
In any case, it is definitely better than the peak happening at the same time everywhere (in which case you can expect close to 10k deaths per day if it is as bad as Spain).
It's such a strange situation. When looking at the figures, the community spread - in many, many states - must have gone on for 3-4 weeks. Simultaneously, you had scores of expats returning home, and it's as if the very moment they were all inside the borders and the gates were shut, the ambulances began howling. My sympathies go out to the families where staying at home is not an option, if they want to have food on the table. I think there are a lot of them.
Is this a joke?
If not, I'd strongly advise against having people over in the midst of a feckING PANDEMIC. Jesus fecking Christ, what is wrong with people?
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a lot also depends on how much virus you get contaminated (thus why many relatively young doctors and nurses have died). I think I read somewhere (and it was kind of shocking for me), that if you get infected with more virus, then it is harder for the immune system to fight the virus, cause it needs to fight many particles of virus at the same time (essentially the virus has a headstart). if true, it can explain why doctors are dying so much. A random guy inhaling some particles which are contaminated would have a better response than a doctor to whom people have been coughing in their face for days.
I might be totally wrong on this, was just some article I read a few days ago.
33% is rather nothing considering you need a tiny droplet to become a carrier or infected. It's like losing 0-7, compared to 0-10. 33% will get you infected with or without mask as generally speaking it lets 67% of the aerosols on your face/mouth.
This is also considering the mask is certified, in fully "working" condition and also replaced every 1-2 hrs, with clean hands, not touching it on the outside and in, not fixating it every 10 mins or so and so forth.
Also bear in mind that Summer is coming in the Northern hemisphere. That means hot and damp temperatures. People with obstructed breathing with those masks sweating and making them even less usable, panting for air and breathing heavier - which leads to more particles being released, a bigger part of which the masks don't stop, and so forth.
As I said, you are free to wear them and if it gives you sense of security and peace of mind it's ok, but you still need to keep your distance and obide all other rules, not only wearing a mask.
For making it mandatory - this is a big no no for me and I'm seriously against this for all the above reasons.