SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Is the point not that the UK didn't have to follow the same trajectory as these worst hit countries, with better planning, they could have avoided the period of exponential increase places like Italy and Spain experienced?
I think it's an indictment on many governments across the world that clearly were not sufficiently prepared. It's easy to say this in hindsight, but there have been several virus outbreaks before as warning signs that other countries, the UK included should have been more adequately prepared. Reacting slowly is one thing, but my understanding (limited) is the lack preparation is what has caught many countries out.
Even if we do get hit the worst, I think there will be enough countries that have been hit hard by the virus that the UK will get some slack as a result, particularly with some of those worst hit countries being European and also the US.
- they were asked by the city of Heinsberg to take over diagnostics; saw this as a chance to better understand the disease
- went from household to household and asked people about their symptoms, how they might have been infected, what medication they are on and underlying conditions they had
- took blood samples and throat swabs, as well as samples from the environment (phones, remote controls etc)
- one finding they released very early was that almost everyone had suffered a temporary loss of small and taste
- they DID find traces of the virus on the tested surfaces but upon further analysis they found the virus was inactive/dead and attempts to culture it were unsuccessful
- door handles (or other objects) can only be infectious when someone coughed into their hand and then touched it
- cannot say precisely how long the virus survives (they are trying to find out now) but they've been to highly contaminated households and could not find any active virus
- criticises that current discussion is largely based on speculation and models based on assumption and what we should do is collect data and produce facts which can be used to make informed decisions
- surprised the Robert Koch Institute hasn't conducted a similar study but such studies are imperative to provide answers for the population
- (on the question whether current measures have been introduced too quickly and decision are being made based on unverified facts) the virus doesn't listen to politicians or any person and we have to "give it time" to see the effects of individual measures which can only be seen after a delay
- praises South Korea's handling of the situation and advocates testing as much as possible and isolating local clusters; highlights there was no lockdown in SK but instead any infection was traced back and then isolated; this is a very good strategy that should be practicable for a country such as Germany as they have the capability to mass-test
- the danger is when the virus gets into hospitals and retirement homes; we should focus our discussion on how to protect the vulnerable part of the population; suggests testing all medical personell every four to seven days
- regrets there is no "round table of virologists and epidemologists" at federal level to pool resources and expertise
- they have dealt with many viruses in the past and seen what impact shutdowns and curfews have on people; calls current measures "drastic" in proportion to previous epidemics
- would have liked it if such measures hadn't been taken so quickly and drastically and would have preferred an open discussion on what our goals are
- our limit is the capacity of the hospitals, not the number of people infected; we've never heard what our goal is, is 1000 infections per day too much? are 100 too many?
- instead of counting new infections every day, we need to listen to the ICU doctors as they are the ones who can best assess which measures are actually the right ones
- it is extremely important to think about an exit strategy
- another reason to do this study to get a better idea of the true number of infections and the actual mortality rate
- we can look at what are the actual routes of infection that are worth breaking up and where it makes sense to loosen the restrictions
- never heard of infections at hairdressing salons but now they're all shut
- as a virologist and scientist it is important to remember what we know and what we don't know
- we know it's not a smear infection but we do know that dancing close together and celebrating in large crowds causes many infections
- now it's about finding the nuances in between
- (when asked about Sweden) it's daring what they are doing but doesn't think they're doing it wrong
- we know how the virus is transmitted, proximity to an infected person
- Swedes are asked to keep their distance, avoid large crowds but normal everyday life goes on
- went from household to household and asked people about their symptoms, how they might have been infected, what medication they are on and underlying conditions they had
- took blood samples and throat swabs, as well as samples from the environment (phones, remote controls etc)
- one finding they released very early was that almost everyone had suffered a temporary loss of small and taste
- they DID find traces of the virus on the tested surfaces but upon further analysis they found the virus was inactive/dead and attempts to culture it were unsuccessful
- door handles (or other objects) can only be infectious when someone coughed into their hand and then touched it
- cannot say precisely how long the virus survives (they are trying to find out now) but they've been to highly contaminated households and could not find any active virus
- criticises that current discussion is largely based on speculation and models based on assumption and what we should do is collect data and produce facts which can be used to make informed decisions
- surprised the Robert Koch Institute hasn't conducted a similar study but such studies are imperative to provide answers for the population
- (on the question whether current measures have been introduced too quickly and decision are being made based on unverified facts) the virus doesn't listen to politicians or any person and we have to "give it time" to see the effects of individual measures which can only be seen after a delay
- praises South Korea's handling of the situation and advocates testing as much as possible and isolating local clusters; highlights there was no lockdown in SK but instead any infection was traced back and then isolated; this is a very good strategy that should be practicable for a country such as Germany as they have the capability to mass-test
- the danger is when the virus gets into hospitals and retirement homes; we should focus our discussion on how to protect the vulnerable part of the population; suggests testing all medical personell every four to seven days
- regrets there is no "round table of virologists and epidemologists" at federal level to pool resources and expertise
- they have dealt with many viruses in the past and seen what impact shutdowns and curfews have on people; calls current measures "drastic" in proportion to previous epidemics
- would have liked it if such measures hadn't been taken so quickly and drastically and would have preferred an open discussion on what our goals are
- our limit is the capacity of the hospitals, not the number of people infected; we've never heard what our goal is, is 1000 infections per day too much? are 100 too many?
- instead of counting new infections every day, we need to listen to the ICU doctors as they are the ones who can best assess which measures are actually the right ones
- it is extremely important to think about an exit strategy
- another reason to do this study to get a better idea of the true number of infections and the actual mortality rate
- we can look at what are the actual routes of infection that are worth breaking up and where it makes sense to loosen the restrictions
- never heard of infections at hairdressing salons but now they're all shut
- as a virologist and scientist it is important to remember what we know and what we don't know
- we know it's not a smear infection but we do know that dancing close together and celebrating in large crowds causes many infections
- now it's about finding the nuances in between
- (when asked about Sweden) it's daring what they are doing but doesn't think they're doing it wrong
- we know how the virus is transmitted, proximity to an infected person
- Swedes are asked to keep their distance, avoid large crowds but normal everyday life goes on
For some reason when I lived in the UK, I had the impression he was a reputable journalist. That's awful.
Good man. If a few more headline searching journalists can be smacked, that'd be good.
Then maybe they can focus on reporting stuff not making their own (wrong) conclusions. Especially about something miles outside their expertise.
Cant we just stick with the experts and feck off people like Peston? Allow him to report on stories of kittens being stuck up trees and the like?The YouGov data is quite illustrative on the other side of that discussion: what the average person thinks.
Obviously Asia are more accustomed to it than Europe in general, but in the likes of Italy, France and Spain there's been a huge uptake in just two weeks. 26% of Italians said they wore a mask on March 11th, by March 25th that had jumped up to 70%. In Spain it went from 5% to 42% over a similar period, and in France it went from 5% to 22%. In the Northern European countries there's been essentially been no movement, hovering at around 1-5% in the UK, Germany, and the Scandinavian countries.
Interesting that Singapore are completely unlike their neighbours in that sense.
I would certainly wear a mask if I could actually get hold of a supply.
But try as I might, it is close to impossible in England.
What an absolute flannel. He wasn't inquiring about anything, he was adopting a tone of authority on the matter because Hancock or Gove have been in his ear trying to explain things that are above their level of understanding.
Why do all journalists have this holier than thou, infallible attitude and think they are somehow immune to criticism because they are the ones asking the questions?
I got the kids to make some at home. Pretty smart they are too. Obviously not military standard but do the job for going to the shops etc...
Good job she got that sewing machine for xmas.
Not just peston.
Yesterday kuenssberg was 'astonished that nearly a million people had applied for universal credit.
What did she think was going to happen when people lose their incomes overnight. We don't all earn £250K a year and have a dad who made a mint via fraudulent business practices.
Yesterday kuenssberg was 'astonished that nearly a million people had applied for universal credit.
What did she think was going to happen when people lose their incomes overnight. We don't all earn £250K a year and have a dad who made a mint via fraudulent business practices.
Everyone knows shes fecking awful though.
@Hernandez - BFA get well soon bud. All of the best with the recovery.
I've plotted @redshaw's data and it looks like we are in the middle of 6 countries.
It's hard to say right now because there is less data for the UK.
Peston's backside well and truly exposed, by Van Tam
Robert should stick to attacking politicians... but then again he wasn't much use at that. Peston had a career with the BBC, but he left and following the Peter Principle ITN promoted him to his level of incompetence.
Murica could soon be looking at 2000+ daily deaths.
FML get well soon mate T_T
Because they think they're just asking questions to get the public informed. The issue is in this case he was posing his questions as if they were facts instead of just asking: "What can this test help us with?" and "How does it solve problems we've struggled with so far/will struggle with down the line?".
His constant talking in the middle of the professors answer tells me he was desperate to show he knew what he was talking about and that he's as smart as the expert.
"Plans to ramp up testing" is the UK Governments version of "Preparing a bid"
Unbelievable.
Behold - this is what we are dealing with in Northern Ireland - large groups of people who think like this.
UK getting a lot of criticism for its testing but what's the story with France and Japan?
Traffic and public transport usage up in the last day apparently. Why is the British public like this? Genuinely hate the mentality here.
Government have obviously botched it but have some fecking common sense.
Government have obviously botched it but have some fecking common sense.
There's probably plenty of perfectly logical reasons why other than "British people are dicks", but I do wonder if there's any link with the rise and the push in the media and government in the last couple of days that the social distancing and isolation measures are starting to work, plenty of talk of "cases plateauing", "less hospital admissions each day", "green shoots", etc.
There's maybe been too much push that the measures are working, and not enough push that this doesn't mean we can start relaxing them yet
Case in my area went up by 47 yesterday to 198. We are now on 73.5 cases/100 000 population.
Because it’s how we are. Nowhere near as good as comparing lemons and satsumas as between U.K. and Germany.
Or, that the low figure was recorded on a Sunday and the slightly higher figure on a Monday... start of the working week, for those who still are working!
A girl I went to school with has shared a conspiracy theory and oh my god the replies. I've already bitten to the original post but I'm so close to going in fully sarcastic with everyone else who I don't even know.
Yes like myself and every poster on this and every other forum. Whoever it was that said a little knowledge is a dangerous thing was certainly well on the mark. Trouble is we are hooked in our own bubbles.
Lemme guess. RUSSIANS did it!
I'm pretty sure people like him would bring the Inquistion back if it was legally possible.
Feck look after yourself and all the best.
Take this nonsense somewhere else please.
I've just done a 300mile round trip for a job (and it was essential work for a hospital) and there was plenty of both local and motorway traffic. In fact in both towns I was in, it was like a normal day.
Absolutely no fecking way all those were essential journies.
What a dick.
"My view has always been that we should respect experts but not assume they are always correct."
That's because he's a conceited idiot who doesn't listen. Now trying to divert attention instead of what he should do... hold his hands up, say he was wrong and learn to listen more.
My view has always been that when you're speaking to an expert in the field, assume they know lots more than me and (at most), ask for clarity on things.