SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

DavidDeSchmikes said:
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How is this even possible, it doesn't make any sense with any recommendation in any part of the world, or from WHO? Majority of recommendations I have seen elsewhere, patients are in self isolation for even more than 14 days after being tested positive, even if some of them aren't having any symptoms. Is it just the UK thing or he wasn't positive to begin with?

If this is a correct thing to do then surely a isolation of every individual for 7 days for entire world would erase the virus entirely(which clearly isn't the case). I am pretty sure even the 14 day lockdown wouldn't be a problem for population(or countries/regions) if it would solve it.
 
Sphaero said:
Ok, first of all, there are massive cultural differences between Western Countries, even those in relatively close geographical proximity like the EU. Secondly, I would define collective wellfare of a society aka its people as a whole with the (albeit unrealistic) goal to care for each of its citizen as best as it can.

If I compare the general culture of the US with the one of Nordic and Central European countries like for example Germany the differences are in parts massive. This starts with Universal Healthcare, free education, far stricter labour laws (some of the strictest worldwide), a still imperfect but far stronger social safety net in cases of illness. debt, loss of home or unemployment and the list goes on and on. How can the German state afford all of this? Some of the highest employment costs in the world and taxes. Despite being an ecomonic powerhouse the average German citizen while enjoying a high standart of living is actually non that wealthy, because a lot of his/her income is used to finance the Social state. Programs like "Kurzarbeit" which protect people working in struggling companies/branches from unemployment in times of crisis are accepted by the vast majority of the population eventhough it costs billions of tax payer money. The entire retirement system is based on solidarity for people they will probably never meet which puts it in stark contrast to mid eastern countries like Turkey where the care of the elderly is put far more in the hands of the families or Asian countries like Japan where a lot of the money for the retirement comes directly from the companies they worked for.

Why is all of this largely accepted by the German public? Because culturally it values things the most in difference to other countries.According to studies the one thing that is valued the most in the US is the freedom or liberty to build your own life like you want to do. In Germany? It is safety. This is to a large part historically originated, especially from the first years post WWII, which were plagued by shortages and poverty. Eventhough many actually did not live in that time, it is still an integral part of the education and upbringing. The thought in the back of your mind that you want to be cared for if you fall in hard times and need help. This need for your own safety breeds solidarity for others, to help them in times of need so you might receive help yourself if needed.

It is by no means a more noble cultural outlook than for example the American way of life because it is ultimately motivated by a individual desire for safety, but it leads to a more society orientated thinking.

So which way is now the Western culture? There is none IMO, it is just a buzz word.


To come back to the actual topic of the thread, the desire for safety is one of the reasons why Germany has been less shaken by the virus than other countries. Besides an obvious luck factor especially the younger average age of infected people in the first wave, the German heath system runs nowhere near maximum capacity in normal times, which leaves a lot of reserves in times of crisis. The very high number of ICU beds for example in relation to other countries is simply the desire to prepare for hard times. It is normally nowhere near cost effecitve but if something really bad happens, it can save lifes-
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I agree, there surely is a massive difference between American and German cultures regarding those points. I don’t mean to say that they are all the same.

Wibble said:
Given the UAE's fondness for propaganda do you believe your government's figures? Do you know how widely they are testing? Especially in the huge ex-pat population from the Philippines, India and Pakistan?

It wouldn't surprise me if there was far Covid-19 in UAE than reported as your government will control what is published, but other factors such as the weather may partly account for infection levels. Your society is a mixture of things like men holding hands in public but there is also inherent social distancing between unrelated members of the opposite sex.

And your view of your nations adherence to law is also a bit disingenuous in that we all know who you are matters very much indeed when it comes to how laws are applied. You do have the capacity for quick authoritarian lock-down but I'd bet many Emirates are still meeting in large family groups. Hopefully that combination of factors will help slow the spread but I don't think it is as simple and straightforward as you state.
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I can’t speak much for the UAE; as I’m a Kuwaiti who used to live there and have relatives there (my location is outdated) so I haven’t been following their handling of it as much as Kuwait.

From what I’ve seen the UAE has been a bit slow out of the blocks, probably stemming from a desire to minimise the impact on their economy and image. I do agree that they really would have loved to say something like “look at us here, we’re still living the Dubai life and no one is sick”. Obviously that was never realistic, and they are now taking much more intense preventive measures. I spoke yesterday to a friend of mine who works as a doctor in Abu Dhabi and she said most of the Covid-19 cases in her hospital where people from the expat population you mention.
 
Sphaero said:
Ok, first of all, there are massive cultural differences between Western Countries, even those in relatively close geographical proximity like the EU. Secondly, I would define collective wellfare of a society aka its people as a whole with the (albeit unrealistic) goal to care for each of its citizen as best as it can.

If I compare the general culture of the US with the one of Nordic and Central European countries like for example Germany the differences are in parts massive. This starts with Universal Healthcare, free education, far stricter labour laws (some of the strictest worldwide), a still imperfect but far stronger social safety net in cases of illness. debt, loss of home or unemployment and the list goes on and on. How can the German state afford all of this? Some of the highest employment costs in the world and taxes. Despite being an ecomonic powerhouse the average German citizen while enjoying a high standart of living is actually non that wealthy, because a lot of his/her income is used to finance the Social state. Programs like "Kurzarbeit" which protect people working in struggling companies/branches from unemployment in times of crisis are accepted by the vast majority of the population eventhough it costs billions of tax payer money. The entire retirement system is based on solidarity for people they will probably never meet which puts it in stark contrast to mid eastern countries like Turkey where the care of the elderly is put far more in the hands of the families or Asian countries like Japan where a lot of the money for the retirement comes directly from the companies they worked for.

Why is all of this largely accepted by the German public? Because culturally it values things the most in difference to other countries.According to studies the one thing that is valued the most in the US is the freedom or liberty to build your own life like you want to do. In Germany? It is safety. This is to a large part historically originated, especially from the first years post WWII, which were plagued by shortages and poverty. Eventhough many actually did not live in that time, it is still an integral part of the education and upbringing. The thought in the back of your mind that you want to be cared for if you fall in hard times and need help. This need for your own safety breeds solidarity for others, to help them in times of need so you might receive help yourself if needed.

It is by no means a more noble cultural outlook than for example the American way of life because it is ultimately motivated by a individual desire for safety, but it leads to a more society orientated thinking.

So which way is now the Western culture? There is none IMO, it is just a buzz word.


To come back to the actual topic of the thread, the desire for safety is one of the reasons why Germany has been less shaken by the virus than other countries. Besides an obvious luck factor especially the younger average age of infected people in the first wave, the German heath system runs nowhere near maximum capacity in normal times, which leaves a lot of reserves in times of crisis. The very high number of ICU beds for example in relation to other countries is simply the desire to prepare for hard times. It is normally nowhere near cost effecitve but if something really bad happens, it can save lifes-
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Great response and why so many are envious of German and Nordic states. I would happily pay more tax in the UK if it meant things worked properly. But like most things I would expect greed and vested interests would get in the way and why many are adverse to paying more tax. You only had to look at the HS2 project to see what I mean. I think we were originally told it would cost around £20 billion. They now estimate it to be more like £100 billion. Yet they can’t find money in the pot to fund the NHS properly. In my lifetime my local hospital hasn’t been expanded at all yet the population increase is 4 fold. Let’s just hope they can cope with Coronavirus.
 
Tampa megachurch pastor arrested after leading packed services despite 'safer-at-home' orders

https://www.fox13news.com/news/tamp...-packed-services-despite-safer-at-home-orders

The sheriff says up to 500 people were in attendance at Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne's Sunday services.

"We brought in 13 machines that basically kill every virus in the place," Howard-Browne said. "If they sneeze it shoots it down like at 100 miles per hour and it will neutralize it in a split second."
Church-4.jpg
 
Amar__ said:
Majority of recommendations I have seen elsewhere, patients are in self isolation for even more than 14 days after being tested positive,
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It's 7 days once you test positive to allow the virus to run its course. The 14 days are if you are in a household with somebody else with it or suspect you may have contracted it recently. That's because it can take 7 days to show symptoms and another 7 days for the virus to pass (i.e 14 days).
 
Amar__ said:
How is this even possible, it doesn't make any sense with any recommendation in any part of the world, or from WHO? Majority of recommendations I have seen elsewhere, patients are in self isolation for even more than 14 days after being tested positive, even if some of them aren't having any symptoms. Is it just the UK thing or he wasn't positive to begin with?

If this is a correct thing to do then surely a isolation of every individual for 7 days for entire world would erase the virus entirely(which clearly isn't the case). I am pretty sure even the 14 day lockdown wouldn't be a problem for population(or countries/regions) if it would solve it.
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Honestly it's really not that difficult to understand. They clearly made a child sacrifice in the gardens of Buckingham Palace and Charles regained all of his lost HP points.
 
Amar__ said:
How is this even possible, it doesn't make any sense with any recommendation in any part of the world, or from WHO? Majority of recommendations I have seen elsewhere, patients are in self isolation for even more than 14 days after being tested positive, even if some of them aren't having any symptoms. Is it just the UK thing or he wasn't positive to begin with?

If this is a correct thing to do then surely a isolation of every individual for *7 days for entire world would erase the virus entirely(which clearly isn't the case). I am pretty sure even the 14 day lockdown wouldn't be a problem for population(or countries/regions) if it would solve it.
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* 7 days is acceptable for the Affluent and like-minded superiors.
 
Balljy said:
It's 7 days once you test positive to allow the virus to run its course. The 14 days are if you are in a household with somebody else with it or suspect you may have contracted it recently. That's because it can take 7 days to show symptoms and another 7 days for the virus to pass (i.e 14 days).
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That's the UK's guidance but it isn't backed by much and is different to almost all other countries. Most studies have shown you're still contagious for a week following recovery, not showing symptoms.

The 14 days was just incubation period it wasn't a figure for both as you're suggesting.
 
Sweet Square said:
:)

To be somewhat serious I did hear a doctor on Sky news say the test is a little bit uncomfortable(Which I'm guessing is doctor speak for very uncomfortable) but I have no idea if that picture you posted is what really happens. I hope not.
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I saw some girl get it done on youtube or something, can't remember...

It looked fecking horrid :lol:
 
Sweet Square said:
:)

To be somewhat serious I did hear a doctor on Sky news say the test is a little bit uncomfortable(Which I'm guessing is doctor speak for very uncomfortable) but I have no idea if that picture you posted is what really happens. I hope not.
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I’ve had it done, it’s not nice
 
NYAS said:
I agree, there surely is a massive difference between American and German cultures regarding those points. I don’t mean to say that they are all the same.



I can’t speak much for the UAE; as I’m a Kuwaiti who used to live there and have relatives there (my location is outdated) so I haven’t been following their handling of it as much as Kuwait.

From what I’ve seen the UAE has been a bit slow out of the blocks, probably stemming from a desire to minimise the impact on their economy and image. I do agree that they really would have loved to say something like “look at us here, we’re still living the Dubai life and no one is sick”. Obviously that was never realistic, and they are now taking much more intense preventive measures. I spoke yesterday to a friend of mine who works as a doctor in Abu Dhabi and she said most of the Covid-19 cases in her hospital where people from the expat population you mention.
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Kuwait is much the same only with even less alcohol ;). Relatively authoritarian regime have some advantages in terms of lockdown but it also isn't quite as straightforward as there are many interacting factors. And here in Australia we now have $1000 fines for first offence and up to 6 months in jail and/or a $11,000 fine for second offences for individuals failing to comply with social distancing requirements and the police have been enforcing this. Not like they would where you live but very authoritarian by our standards.

Fingers crossed we all manage to stop the spread.
 
Dumbstar said:
Probably the best (and most up to date) article I've read around the potential cures. Explains WHO's strategy (Solidarity) in getting the 4 frontrunner drugs up for testing on a larger scale as of last Friday.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...al-four-most-promising-coronavirus-treatments
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Not sure of the progress of WHO's research yet, but this link below may be part of it. Regardless, doctor's are testing hydroxychloroquine and the anti biotics supplement that Trump is excited about. Positive outcomes tested in 80 patients in France. Click on 'latest results' in the first paragraph of the article for the informative PDF results:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927758
 
Smores said:
That's the UK's guidance but it isn't backed by much and is different to almost all other countries. Most studies have shown you're still contagious for a week following recovery, not showing symptoms.

The 14 days was just incubation period it wasn't a figure for both as you're suggesting.
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It is a bit surprising he's out of self isolation already.

In Ireland the advice is you're ok if both of 14 days since your symptoms started and 5 days since your fever broke apply to you.
 
I smoked for 7 years, and gave up almost five years ago. I've since got quite heavily into diet and exercise and do cardio at least 3-4 times a week.

I'm hoping I've done enough to put myself in the best possible health in case I catch Covid-19, but I can't help but wonder how much fitter I might be had I never smoked. And what damage might remain from those years.

I was 30 when I stopped, and now about to turn 35. I'm glad to not be a smoker now, that's for sure.
 
Isotope said:
Tampa megachurch pastor arrested after leading packed services despite 'safer-at-home' orders

https://www.fox13news.com/news/tamp...-packed-services-despite-safer-at-home-orders

The sheriff says up to 500 people were in attendance at Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne's Sunday services.

"We brought in 13 machines that basically kill every virus in the place," Howard-Browne said. "If they sneeze it shoots it down like at 100 miles per hour and it will neutralize it in a split second."
Church-4.jpg
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Out on bail now. They held off on executing the warrant as he claims to have 500 guns and a security detail.
 
Wibble said:
Kuwait is much the same only with even less alcohol ;). Relatively authoritarian regime have some advantages in terms of lockdown but it also isn't quite as straightforward as there are many interacting factors. And here in Australia we now have $1000 fines for first offence and up to 6 months in jail and/or a $11,000 fine for second offences for individuals failing to comply with social distancing requirements and the police have been enforcing this. Not like they would where you live but very authoritarian by our standards.

Fingers crossed we all manage to stop the spread.
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That’s good news about Australia.

In terms of Kuwait I can say that I have no doubt about the numbers coming out as they have been very transparent on that front:

https://corona.e.gov.kw/En/

And were more proactive in terms of measures than the UAE.
 


Seems like Spain is flattening the curve and is going to Italy's direction

US is starting to look fecked
 
Bragging about your country's authoritarianism is weird.

It's like claiming that a man who keeps his family permanently locked up in the basement is a good dad because his town gets hit by hurricanes sometimes.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Yeah, there will be the inevitable recession to look forward to after this. Until then I'll keep spamming my mate with the video of Bernard Black filling out his tax returns.

"WHAT DOES THST MEAN?! If you live in a council flat beside a river but are not...blind WHAT?!"
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And as it's the Tories it'll be even worse than it needs to be for us regular folk no doubt, while rich companies continue to get away with paying little.
 
General Electric Workers Launch Protest, Demand to Make Ventilators

GE workers who normally make jet engines say their facilities are sitting idle while the country faces a dire ventilator shortage.

On Monday, General Electric factory workers launched two separate protests demanding that the company convert its jet engine factories to make ventilators. At GE's Lynn, Massachusetts aviation facility, workers held a silent protest, standing six feet apart. Union members at the company’s Boston headquarters also marched six feet apart, calling on the company to use its factories to help the country close its ventilator shortage amid the coronavirus pandemic.

...

GE’s Healthcare Division is already one of the country’s largest manufacturers of ventilators, so union members believe that other factories could be converted to produce the life-saving devices. Hospitals around the country say that there is a critical shortage of ventilators, and many experts have implored President Trump to invoke the Defense Production Act to require companies to produce them. Trump finally decided to make General Motors produce ventilators over the weekend, the first in a series of deals that may eventually call on General Electric to increase ventilator supply.
Click to expand...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...s-walk-off-the-job-demand-to-make-ventilators
 
Dante said:
Bragging about your country's authoritarianism is weird.

It's like claiming that a man who keeps his family permanently locked up in the basement is a good dad because his town gets hit by hurricanes sometimes.
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This might seems foreign to you. But in some parts of the worlds we cling to them, more than the alternatives.

There are people that needs authoritarian leader to function.

Its like giving the power of choices to a 10 year olds. It might be democracy but it wont end well

Democracy would be shit for minorities. If our wellbeing is left to democracy we could be far worse.
 
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Dante said:
Bragging about your country's authoritarianism is weird.

It's like claiming that a man who keeps his family permanently locked up in the basement is a good dad because his town gets hit by hurricanes sometimes.
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It really is not.

"Democracy is a political system where your vote is worth as much as a vote of someone who does not know how to read".

So let's not pretend that it is some ultimate standard that all must strive to achieve.
 
Hound Dog said:
It really is not.

"Democracy is a political system where your vote is worth as much as a vote of someone who does not know how to read".

So let's not pretend that it is some ultimate standard that all must strive to achieve.
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Jesus. Coming from a Serb as well that’s scary.
 
Isotope said:
Tampa megachurch pastor arrested after leading packed services despite 'safer-at-home' orders

https://www.fox13news.com/news/tamp...-packed-services-despite-safer-at-home-orders

The sheriff says up to 500 people were in attendance at Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne's Sunday services.

"We brought in 13 machines that basically kill every virus in the place," Howard-Browne said. "If they sneeze it shoots it down like at 100 miles per hour and it will neutralize it in a split second."
Church-4.jpg
Click to expand...
Maybe he’s teamed up with the guys that brought us muslamic ray guns
 
4bars said:


Seems like Spain is flattening the curve and is going to Italy's direction

US is starting to look fecked
Click to expand...

Spain isn’t flattening, just the spacing and log style of the x a six makes it look that way. They had 914 deaths yesterday, more than any single day in Italy (if memory serves)
 
Sphaero said:
Ok, first of all, there are massive cultural differences between Western Countries, even those in relatively close geographical proximity like the EU. Secondly, I would define collective wellfare of a society aka its people as a whole with the (albeit unrealistic) goal to care for each of its citizen as best as it can.

If I compare the general culture of the US with the one of Nordic and Central European countries like for example Germany the differences are in parts massive. This starts with Universal Healthcare, free education, far stricter labour laws (some of the strictest worldwide), a still imperfect but far stronger social safety net in cases of illness. debt, loss of home or unemployment and the list goes on and on. How can the German state afford all of this? Some of the highest employment costs in the world and taxes. Despite being an ecomonic powerhouse the average German citizen while enjoying a high standart of living is actually non that wealthy, because a lot of his/her income is used to finance the Social state. Programs like "Kurzarbeit" which protect people working in struggling companies/branches from unemployment in times of crisis are accepted by the vast majority of the population eventhough it costs billions of tax payer money. The entire retirement system is based on solidarity for people they will probably never meet which puts it in stark contrast to mid eastern countries like Turkey where the care of the elderly is put far more in the hands of the families or Asian countries like Japan where a lot of the money for the retirement comes directly from the companies they worked for.

Why is all of this largely accepted by the German public? Because culturally it values things the most in difference to other countries.According to studies the one thing that is valued the most in the US is the freedom or liberty to build your own life like you want to do. In Germany? It is safety. This is to a large part historically originated, especially from the first years post WWII, which were plagued by shortages and poverty. Eventhough many actually did not live in that time, it is still an integral part of the education and upbringing. The thought in the back of your mind that you want to be cared for if you fall in hard times and need help. This need for your own safety breeds solidarity for others, to help them in times of need so you might receive help yourself if needed.

It is by no means a more noble cultural outlook than for example the American way of life because it is ultimately motivated by a individual desire for safety, but it leads to a more society orientated thinking.

So which way is now the Western culture? There is none IMO, it is just a buzz word.


To come back to the actual topic of the thread, the desire for safety is one of the reasons why Germany has been less shaken by the virus than other countries. Besides an obvious luck factor especially the younger average age of infected people in the first wave, the German heath system runs nowhere near maximum capacity in normal times, which leaves a lot of reserves in times of crisis. The very high number of ICU beds for example in relation to other countries is simply the desire to prepare for hard times. It is normally nowhere near cost effecitve but if something really bad happens, it can save lifes-
Click to expand...
Josep Dowling said:
Great response and why so many are envious of German and Nordic states. I would happily pay more tax in the UK if it meant things worked properly. But like most things I would expect greed and vested interests would get in the way and why many are adverse to paying more tax. You only had to look at the HS2 project to see what I mean. I think we were originally told it would cost around £20 billion. They now estimate it to be more like £100 billion. Yet they can’t find money in the pot to fund the NHS properly. In my lifetime my local hospital hasn’t been expanded at all yet the population increase is 4 fold. Let’s just hope they can cope with Coronavirus.
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Aye, that’s why I called @NYAS a bigot yesterday. I didn’t have the lust to spell it out for him then but you two have done it perfectly here.
To bundle the US in with, for example Germany & Scandinavia is one of the most narrow minded and ignorant posts I’ve seen on these boards, they are World’s apart.

Does this bigot seriously think the likes of us in Sweden pay the most tax in the World because we only care about ourselves and our own liberties, and ”to hell with other people”?
Two of the most important things here in the nordics are the Law of Jante & Freedom to Roam, but a dude living a country with a history of Human Right abuse, that in 2020 still don’t see women as equal is the country that ”cares more about other people” as the West is, and I quote:

”To hell with other people”.

What an utter crock of shite, the delusion of a person desperate to see the place he lives as ”better” in some way.


19734.jpeg
 
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