SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Fiskey said:
That's not what they said though is it? They said they didn't want to shut things down too soon, and felt it was worth the festival going ahead.

Why must people always deal in absolutes?
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That's exactly what they said, just one quick Google

“However based upon the current scientific advice from the Government's medical experts there is no rationale to close or cancel sporting events as things stand."

When people talk of failure in comms from the government and mixed messages this is exactly what it refers to. Expecting people to go from being told it's fine to be in a mass crowd to them then accepting they need to stay at home is ridiculous messaging
 
Smores said:
That's exactly what they said, just one quick Google

“However based upon the current scientific advice from the Government's medical experts there is no rationale to close or cancel sporting events as things stand."

When people talk of failure in comms from the government and mixed messages this is exactly what it refers to. Expecting people to go from being told it's fine to be in a mass crowd to them then accepting they need to stay at home is ridiculous messaging
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Exactly, "as things stand" is the key phrase.
 
While it's difficult to find testing facilities to screen front line NHS staff I do think it important that there be enough tests kept in reserve for the richest among us to still get tested at the opening of a wallet.
 
acnumber9 said:
What is his important position? What is Prince Charles doing on a daily basis?
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I agree with you fully that he's a parasite but surely you can see that in the UK any member of the Royal Family is going to be getting preferential treatment for this. It's just the way the world works.
 
acnumber9 said:
Again though, testing shouldn’t be available to people just because they’re rich or some outdated traditions make them ‘important’.
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Their statement says he "met the criteria required for testing" but then also says he has mild symptoms. Weird. Maybe his age or underlying conditions had something to do with it?
 
Ekkie Thump said:
I do think it important that even though it's difficult to find testing facilities to screen front line NHS staff there should certainly be enough tests kept in reserve that the richest among us can still get tested at the opening of a wallet.
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Definitely. Especially those born into wealth because centuries ago people fought battles and declared themselves royalty. What would we do if those poor people didn’t survive?
 
If we can feasibly do 25k a day (and they’ve said we are ramping that up further) then we should 100% have drive thru testing available to the general public soon. If they can’t see how that would be worth the considerable resource then there’s definitely no exit strategy to this.
 
I didn't like the Atletico match being played but I looked recently and there wasn't any sign of a jump in cases in Liverpool or Manchester.
 
11101 said:
I agree with you fully that he's a parasite but surely you can see that in the UK any member of the Royal Family is going to be getting preferential treatment for this. It's just the way the world works.
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I know they will. It’s not just royalty either. There’s a high number of celebrities being tested and testing positive. When you compare that to the numbers actually declared you can see there’s a huge disparity. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t get annoyed about it. In fact times like this are when we should be getting annoyed about it.
 
11101 said:
I agree with you fully that he's a parasite but surely you can see that in the UK any member of the Royal Family is going to be getting preferential treatment for this. It's just the way the world works.
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Exactly this. It's a different argument about whether we should have a royal family, but given we do and the constitution gives them importance their health is one of the priorities of state.

It's why we pay so much for their security.
 
Fiskey said:
60,000 people at a largely outdoor meeting will have had little effect to the infection rates in a country of 60,000,000. Most people will spread this in confined areas, it's why we can't just shut down sporting events and say, that's good enough.
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This is just patently untrue.

And you can't just change your argument (and say something incorrect anyway) because your initial statement has proven to be incorrect.

Also, who has said this bolded bit?

Finally, whatever the morality of testing Charles, he is not the same as Trump.
 
acnumber9 said:
What is his important position? What is Prince Charles doing on a daily basis?
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What he does and who he is are two different things. The queen is very old, he's next in line and if anything happened to him, William would very unexpectedly be next in line.

They have their own medical staff, anyway (the Medical Household, who are employed to look after members of the Royal Family).
 
acnumber9 said:
I know they will. It’s not just royalty either. There’s a high number of celebrities being tested and testing positive. When you compare that to the numbers actually declared you can see there’s a huge disparity. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t get annoyed about it. In fact times like this are when we should be getting annoyed about it.
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I assume those celebrities are paying for it themselves rather than the government bending over backwards to look after them, which is what would happen with the Royal Family.
 
africanspur said:
This is just patently untrue.

And you can't just change your argument (and say something incorrect anyway) because your initial statement has proven to be incorrect.

Also, who has said this bolded bit?

Finally, whatever the morality of testing Charles, he is not the same as Trump.
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Why is it patently untrue?
 
Penna said:
What he does and who he is are two different things. The queen is very old, he's next in line and if anything happened to him, William would very unexpectedly be next in line.

They have their own medical staff, anyway (the Medical Household, who are employed to look after members of the Royal Family).
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In what way would our lives change if he died? What is he doing that means he needs to be tested above people with more than mild symptoms?
 
11101 said:
I assume those celebrities are paying for it themselves rather than the government bending over backwards to look after them, which is what would happen with the Royal Family.
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Perhaps. But you should not be able to pay your way out of this situation.
 
The MOT is up on my car so it misses the 30th of March date. It's going in this afternoon. The actual office part of the garage is shut but they said they're still doing repairs/MOT's. Just need to park up my car and post the keys through the letterbox.
 
Compton22 said:
I think that a lot of that depends on what percentage of cases are asymptomatic or very mild. Also, didn't China broaden their definition of Coronavirus symptoms for testing around February, thus an increase in confirmed cases? It's very possible to me that in that time, a lot more people could have already been exposed to it, thinking it was just the common cold or a bad bout of flu. Seems crazy but I remember in late January being bed ridden, had a pounding headache, fever and body aches. Probably just the regular flu, but it makes you think.
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Icelandic scientists claim there are up to forty strains of this virus doing the rounds, some are so mild you wouldn't know you have it, others that can kill you especially those people with other health problems, which are usually but not entirely in the age groups above 70. Nobody (as yet) seems to have a handle on how it mutates and if those with mild forms pass it on a mutated form to others. Its simple though, washing hands and keeping your distance is the most effective precautions you can take just now.
 
I can't get behind the paywall for this, but the gist is as follows:

The recently-announced shutdown measures in the UK are sending businesses into the biggest slump in recent times, with IHS Markit’s monthly measure of manufacturing and services activity falling to the lowest level in some 22 years. Chief business economist Chris Williamson notes: “Any growth was confined to small pockets of the economy such as food manufacturing, pharmaceuticals and healthcare.” Meanwhile, academics claim that if GDP falls by more than 6.4% then the loss of life from a recession would be greater than life gained through fighting the coronavirus.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...my-collapsing-as-services-shut-down-qnq27gkm2
 
acnumber9 said:
Perhaps. But you should not be able to pay your way out of this situation.
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You can't. You can pay to get tested but that's where it ends. The outcome for each person is a total lottery and no amount of money or influence can change that.
 
Fiskey said:
60,000 people at a largely outdoor meeting will have had little effect to the infection rates in a country of 60,000,000. Most people will spread this in confined areas, it's why we can't just shut down sporting events and say, that's good enough.
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That is rubbish though. The virus will undoubtedly have been tearing through those packed bar areas for 4 days where everyone is shoulder to shoulder. It was a bad idea, many said as much at the time and it looks even worse in retrospect. You can be ambivalent about it, you’re not letting the side down - unless you genuinely think it wasn’t a poor decision, in which case I’ll leave you to it.
 
acnumber9 said:
In what way would our lives change if he died? What is he doing that means he needs to be tested above people with more than mild symptoms?
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Our daily lives wouldn't change, but that's not the issue. The UK has a monarchy (like it or not) and they are still important people simply because of the office they hold - just like Boris Johnson. They get first-class medical care because that's what happens when you are at the top of the social tree in any country, just as these people never have to go to the shops, never do their own cleaning, never have to queue, get the best quality of travel every time they need to go somewhere. It's not fair, but fairness doesn't come into it when you're rich and famous.

And in any case, a lot of British people are still strong supporters of the monarchy. They're certainly not universally despised!
 
Ady87 said:
That is rubbish though. The virus will undoubtedly have been tearing through those packed bar areas for 4 days where everyone is shoulder to shoulder. It was a bad idea, many said as much at the time and it looks even worse in retrospect. You can be ambivalent about it, you’re not letting the side down - unless you genuinely think it wasn’t a poor decision, in which case I’ll leave you to it.
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I think it was a great decision. Lots of people had a good time and one fewer event/company facing bankruptcy this year.
 
Fiskey said:
Why is it patently untrue?
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Because literally just one person being infected in that 60,000, assuming an R0 of 2.5 for instance (most estimates have it as being between 2.2 and 2.8), would end up being the index case for approximately 10,000 cases.

We have in fact seen a very similar case already in South Korea where the 31st patient they identified failed to follow the isolation procedures and has infected a huge number of people indirectly though her actions.

You can say 'who cares about 10,000 cases in a country of 60,000,000? Well, with less cases confirmed so far in the UK, we have already had to cancel all elective surgeries, scale down outpatient services, go into war footing, pull other specialty doctors into the medical and intensive care units and some intensive care units (Hillingdon/ Northwick Park in London for instance) have already started overflowing into theatres and turning down other patients who may have gone to ICU.

So you can disagree with the measures, you can disagree with how people are coping. But it is false to say that one event holding 60,000 people will have had little effect to the infection rates in this country.


Others have alluded to this already and I'm not directing this at you specifically. It is totally OK to be curious, totally OK to be reading up on it and totally OK to have opinions on everything in life, including this. Why so many people are insisting on taking their often misguided opinions and presenting it as fact though I have no idea.
 
Fiskey said:
60,000 people at a largely outdoor meeting will have had little effect to the infection rates in a country of 60,000,000. Most people will spread this in confined areas, it's why we can't just shut down sporting events and say, that's good enough.
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Careful you’ll hurt your back moving goalposts that much.
 
acnumber9 said:
If me or you called up with mild symptoms we will be told to stay at home and self isolate. Not a chance we’d be tested until we had to go to hospital.
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His age would put him in a higher risk group than you or me. Maybe he also has co-morbidities?

EDIT: I’ll admit I don’t know Uk testing criteria. In Ireland we’re using WHO criteria (as of last night) and anyone with a symptoms of COVID and a relevant co-morbidity gets a test. Before last night the criteria were much looser.
 
africanspur said:
Because literally just one person being infected in that 60,000, assuming an R0 of 2.5 for instance (most estimates have it as being between 2.2 and 2.8), would end up being the index case for approximately 10,000 cases.

We have in fact seen a very similar case already in South Korea where the 31st patient they identified failed to follow the isolation procedures and has infected a huge number of people indirectly though her actions.

You can say 'who cares about 10,000 cases in a country of 60,000,000? Well, with less cases confirmed so far in the UK, we have already had to cancel all elective surgeries, scale down outpatient services, go into war footing, pull other specialty doctors into the medical and intensive care units and some intensive care units (Hillingdon/ Northwick Park in London for instance) have already started overflowing into theatres and turning down other patients who may have gone to ICU.

So you can disagree with the measures, you can disagree with how people are coping. But it is false to say that one event holding 60,000 people will have had little effect to the infection rates in this country.


Others have alluded to this already and I'm not directing this at you specifically. It is totally OK to be curious, totally OK to be reading up on it and totally OK to have opinions on everything in life, including this. Why so many people are insisting on taking their often misguided opinions and presenting it as fact though I have no idea.
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Well said.
 
It wouldn’t surprise me if over £100 million people have been infected by this thing so.

I’ve felt unwell with a bad cough for about 6 weeks now. Could be a bad cold, could be a mild flu, could be Covid 19. Who knows?
 
But think about the positive social benefits of watching Liverpool getting knocked out. You can't put a price on that.
 
africanspur said:
Because literally just one person being infected in that 60,000, assuming an R0 of 2.5 for instance (most estimates have it as being between 2.2 and 2.8), would end up being the index case for approximately 10,000 cases.

We have in fact seen a very similar case already in South Korea where the 31st patient they identified failed to follow the isolation procedures and has infected a huge number of people indirectly though her actions.

You can say 'who cares about 10,000 cases in a country of 60,000,000? Well, with less cases confirmed so far in the UK, we have already had to cancel all elective surgeries, scale down outpatient services, go into war footing, pull other specialty doctors into the medical and intensive care units and some intensive care units (Hillingdon/ Northwick Park in London for instance) have already started overflowing into theatres and turning down other patients who may have gone to ICU.

So you can disagree with the measures, you can disagree with how people are coping. But it is false to say that one event holding 60,000 people will have had little effect to the infection rates in this country.


Others have alluded to this already and I'm not directing this at you specifically. It is totally OK to be curious, totally OK to be reading up on it and totally OK to have opinions on everything in life, including this. Why so many people are insisting on taking their often misguided opinions and presenting it as fact though I have no idea.
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Data models in Italy have put the R0 as high as 5.6 in late February when the virus was circulating unchecked, and it's currently estimated to be around 1.3-1.5 based on cases confirmed yesterday i.e cases acquired a week ago.
 
Fiskey said:
60,000 people at a largely outdoor meeting will have had little effect to the infection rates in a country of 60,000,000.
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60,000 people from all over the country congregating in close proximity to each other. How the feck can they claim this is not dangerous, but walking on the streets less than 2m from strangers is dangerous? It was stupid as feck, and they deserve to be roundly criticized for it.
 
africanspur said:
Because literally just one person being infected in that 60,000, assuming an R0 of 2.5 for instance (most estimates have it as being between 2.2 and 2.8), would end up being the index case for approximately 10,000 cases.
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Cancelling all those matches a week earlier would have done virtually nothing in a society that was still continuing as normal.
 
Kentonio said:
60,000 people from all over the country congregating in close proximity to each other. How the feck can they claim this is not dangerous, but walking on the streets less than 2m from strangers is dangerous? It was stupid as feck, and they deserve to be roundly criticized for it.
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And expecting all those people who were told it's fine to be there to suddenly accept they need to stay at home and away from others :lol:

I mean they'll have been a good number in those crowds who have now been advised it's too dangerous to even leave the house now for 12 weeks!
 
africanspur said:
Because literally just one person being infected in that 60,000, assuming an R0 of 2.5 for instance (most estimates have it as being between 2.2 and 2.8), would end up being the index case for approximately 10,000 cases.

We have in fact seen a very similar case already in South Korea where the 31st patient they identified failed to follow the isolation procedures and has infected a huge number of people indirectly though her actions.

You can say 'who cares about 10,000 cases in a country of 60,000,000? Well, with less cases confirmed so far in the UK, we have already had to cancel all elective surgeries, scale down outpatient services, go into war footing, pull other specialty doctors into the medical and intensive care units and some intensive care units (Hillingdon/ Northwick Park in London for instance) have already started overflowing into theatres and turning down other patients who may have gone to ICU.

So you can disagree with the measures, you can disagree with how people are coping. But it is false to say that one event holding 60,000 people will have had little effect to the infection rates in this country.


Others have alluded to this already and I'm not directing this at you specifically. It is totally OK to be curious, totally OK to be reading up on it and totally OK to have opinions on everything in life, including this. Why so many people are insisting on taking their often misguided opinions and presenting it as fact though I have no idea.
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Nice job. Some people are just posting whatever they want to be the case without even a cursory reading of the events . As time consuming and tedious as it is, calling people on their careless bollocks has to be done.
 
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