It's a combination of both.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
It's a combination of both.
I could understand NHS staff wondering who they're saving when they get crushed at a supermarket during an hour designated for them.
The following are all very valid points to counter the idea that countries could have reasonably been expected to lock down in January or early February:
The former editor of The Times, Sir Simon Jenkins, recently listed these unfulfilled scares: bird flu did not kill the predicted millions in 1997. In 1999 it was Mad Cow Disease and its human variant, vCJD, which was predicted to kill half a million. Fewer than 200 in fact died from it in the UK.
The first Sars outbreak of 2003 was reported as having ‘a 25 per cent chance of killing tens of millions’ and being ‘worse than Aids’. In 2006, another bout of bird flu was declared ‘the first pandemic of the 21st Century’.
There were similar warnings in 2009, that swine flu could kill 65,000. It did not. The Council of Europe described the hyping of the 2009 pandemic as ‘one of the great medical scandals of the century’. Well, we shall no doubt see.
I think that C19 is quite obviously a bigger crisis than all those mentioned. But we can only tell that because we're in the midst of it. It could have just as easily fizzled out like the examples mentioned above.
They'd be referring to the 'at risk' groups listed on their website.
it is good to have contracting opinions. We would all hope he’s more right than other projections.
however, you can be assured that the UK government is not basing its strategy on “political opinion” but based on the best scientific advice available at the time - it may turn out to be incorrect or somewhat incorrect, but this is not some sort of political ideology that the government is following.
Johnson, Trump & co can hardly complain about people disobeying instructions - both have risen to power on a wave of informality, of telling angry people to dismiss red tape-stuffiness and to ignore the views of 'The Man' (experts, 'elites', scientists etc etc). And now they want us to believe that they are Serious Politicians for Serious Times, who care about other people's welfare over their own interests? Ha.
Which, as me and others trying to work out if we're on it have said, is very vague.
So are you following the advice or doing something else?
The internet disinformation campaigns they launched during the elections has deluged the flow of news forever and it especially shows its ugliness in emergencies like these.
Not disagreeing that flu comparisons aren't particularly helpful but we have no idea about the true death rate of Covid-19. It totally depends on many people were tested (and in what condition the test subjects were in). The actual number of infected people is way higher than what is reported ("confirmed cases"). That's why we have wildly different death rates from almost 10% (Italy) to 0.3% (Germany).
I just saw in a Singapore newspaper that the Cuban produced Interferon Alpha 2B has been successful in treating covid 19. This was produced by Cuban Doctor Luis Herrera in 1986. It said that so far it has cured more than 1500 in China and they have taken this to Italy with them to treat the most vulnerable.
Many Latin American and Caribbean countries have asked for this medicine. It says there are more Cuban doctors working abroad on the covid than any other foreign country. A country that has its its life destroyed by the Americans are going out risking their lives to help other countries.
I am making a difference between Obama and Trump as Obama did ease sanctions against Cuba while Trump brought it back and now he has Iranian lives on his head for the sanctions he put so that they can't buy even medicine or supplies for covid.
It's no good Boris getting all Vitai Lampada about the advice, because unless the government says "you can't", people will think "we can if we want".
Recommending, advising and requesting gets you nowhere if a significant number of people are acting in their own interests, and not for the greater good.
Recommending, advising and requesting gets you nowhere if a significant number of people are acting in their own interests, and not for the greater good.
He is worrying about the certainty of the data we have at a point of the pandemic when certain data is impossible. Which is fine, nothing wrong with questioning uncertain data.
The correct response to acknowledging the uncertainty of the data isn't to assume the best case outcome though, it's to prepare for the reasonable worst case outcome. Especially at a point when we can already see the health services of other countries being overwhelmed in real time. Speculating about the hypothetical range of case fatality rates doesn't change the reality of what is actually happening in hospitals right now.
If you place so much faith in one particular Professor of Medicine, perhaps take note of what the overwhelming majority of his peers across the world are saying, some in direct response to this contrarian take. Hint: it's rather less optimistic.
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While I do agree that the flu comparisons should stop if we're being realistic there's going to be hundreds and thousands of people who have got this and don't know.
So really the death rate is a bit misleading.
I'm obliged to make semi-educated guesses as to my conduct during the crisis, rather than rely on the half-arsed advice/'suggestions' of a Prime Minister whose career(s) to date consist of untrustworthiness and winging-it.
You can call your GP if you're unsure. The likelihood is you'll know if you should be on it though, and will receive a letter by the 29th.
I haven't predicted anything, must be another person
So had 'the chat' with my boss and I'll be furloughed as of tomorrow. Massive relief. I can now properly isolate with my wife and two children for the next few months. My wife is a teacher working from home and still being paid in full so we should be OK!
I'm pleased for you, I hope you all stay safe together.
This.
The government spent a good while telling us to just crack on with it, when many of us knew this was absolutely insane, so individuals and businesses rightly ignored them. We are in no doubt that their advice is not to be trusted. We are left having to guess for ourselves.
It's not bad advice, they've admittedly been very slow in giving it out but thats where common sense should come in, theres people going to the seaside for family day out as I said some people are treating it like an extended bank holiday, Mums, dads, kids, grandparents.
I just cant believe the sheer stupidity of some people.
Thanks Penna. The scheduling starts tomorrow!
I am unsure. Should I call my GP? Cause that feels like a thing that could be avoided at a time when they are desperately struggling. I really don't know. Waiting for days sounds very stressful.
Did that come to pass, or did they postpone it for next week?
This morning, live on Sky TV, the housing minister told people it was a good idea to take their kids to the park.
So they did.
Most people aren't watching this develop, they here that one soundbite in a day, and its go tot he park.
This is just bad leadership.
If I had to list the five people I hated the most in the world Boris would be there so I'm in no way saying this from a position of fandom.
But he seems to be the only leader around so far that's actually factoring mental health into this and thinking beyond the next few weeks, luckily I'm in a much much better place to deal with a lockdown if it comes now but the me of 2011 wouldn't have been able to cope with effectively being under house arrest and I'd go as far as saying it would have been 50/50 if I actually survived it. However they are people who will be me circa 2011 so to speak and I'm genuinely terrified for them.
I don't know which extreme group annoys me more, the ones who are carrying on as normal and probably leading us to a complete lockdown with their selfishness or the ones who think basically a prison routine is a good idea, it will only serve to eventually turn a coronovirus pandemic into a mental health pandemic. If most people were compromising with a middle ground this would be so much easier all round.
I assume this is for Europe and quickly looking we're at ~8000 deaths already. Would seem Italy will keep adding and other countries will reach Italy's numbers in the coming weeks so I reckon we'll hit around 65k for Europe at the low end. I don't buy into millions dead but this is serious and also many could have breathing problems with lung fibrosis and damaged lungs for life and I've read of young people recovering and then having heart failure.
Hopefully the longer we delay the antiviral meds can be found and help. Right now for example an Italian hospital had 170 odd covid19 patients and 170 odd died on a ventilator from chronic pneumonia Only one came through who was young.
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It's virtually policy with this lot: their history of leaking information, rather than actually making public statements, shows their deliberate evasion of responsibility & fear of unpopularity. They were making it up as they went along well before this crisis.
Just seen that Fellaini has Coronavirus.
First death in the Czech Republic (from 1120 confirmed cases so far). A 95-year old man died in Prague today.
Absolutely, very poorly briefed ministers coming out with their own interpretation of the guidance. An absolute clusterfeck of messages for people to follow.
Yes you should. If you have not been identified as extremely vulnerable and believe you should, then your GP has the ability to add you onto it if they believe it is correct to do so. I don’t know what health conditions you have and I don’t expect you to tell me, but I would imagine you have a pretty good idea whether you fall into this category or not.
A rough and ready chart i've been keeping tabs of showing case progression and trends from the day each country broke 200 cases. The UK is still some way behind the worst hit countries.
No, they tightened the rules from today.
We even had an Guardia di Finanza helicopter circling the town today to spot people outdoors and generally make their presence known.
No, they tightened the rules from today.
We even had an Guardia di Finanza helicopter circling the town today to spot people outdoors and generally make their presence known.
He's going to head it off at the pass.
I agree and think the mortality rate is much closer to the published flu mortality rate. However, we also have to wonder how many cases of the flu go undocumented and in turn makes the mortality rate higher than published.
In a lockdown situation for UK can anyone confirm how Corner shops and newsagents are treated? Locked down only for supermarkets or stay open?
I know its hard, but the people who you perceive to be acting idiotic need to be treated differently somehow, because it wont get through. It never does when you want something to change but go about it by insulting someone.
"You're an idiot for voting trump" = trump president
"Youre an idiot wanting brexit" = leave wins
" Youre an idiot for not respecting social distancing" = ???
"You're an idiot for voting trump" = trump president
"Youre an idiot wanting brexit" = leave wins
" Youre an idiot for not respecting social distancing" = ???
Nobody will be able to confirm that, the Government have said nothing about it.
I would guess that if the shop sells food, it'll be able to stay open.
I think I shouldn't fall in to it if it was perfectly designed but that the wide net that the government is casting here, given they lack the time to get down in to the minutiae, may well catch me nonetheless, as I have a type of blood cancer that is rare at the best of times and extremely rare at my age, and also not very dangerous at my age.
But I ain't a haematologist with a good understanding of epidemiology.