SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Being dipping in and out of this thread for last week. Just like the football I find it very interesting getting perspective from posters in other european and countries worldwide.

Anyway it's important to take 2-3 hour breaks from the relentless grind of sobering news so thankfully Hunted can take my attention away for a while. I imagine given they film this during the summer this will be yet another TV series scrapped for next year now so will enjoy last one for a while.:lol:
 
Hugh Jass said:
Just read an article that says 99% of deaths in Italy, people had pre existing conditions.

High blood pressure seems to be a huge factor. They are not sure why and loads of people have high blood pressure.
Click to expand...

I saw a similar comments from a Chinese doctor. Many of the infected ones who did not make it in China has high blood pressure
 
Giggs86 said:
Cheers. It was on my watch later list, will definitely watch it now.
Click to expand...


I usually watch/listen to JRE but I avoided this one as I thought it'd increase anxiety - I did it today while WFH, it was really fecking good. Wasn't scare-mongering but definitely addressed the severity of the situation and stuff. Enjoyed it. Another weird WFH day here, this will be routine for a while now.
 
2cents said:
Probably jumping the gun here, but I’m starting to come around to the idea that this virus simply does not spread to the same degree in warmer climates. If it did, there would surely have been at least one severe outbreak in a tropical country that we’d know about by now?
Click to expand...

It is going out of control in Southeast Asia.....
 
FootballHQ said:
Being dipping in and out of this thread for last week. Just like the football I find it very interesting getting perspective from posters in other european and countries worldwide.

Anyway it's important to take 2-3 hour breaks from the relentless grind of sobering news so thankfully Hunted can take my attention away for a while. I imagine given they film this during the summer this will be yet another TV series scrapped for next year now so will enjoy last one for a while.:lol:
Click to expand...

Yeah agree, I went and dropped some elderly relatives a few bits n bobs off today and they are sat there glued to the TV watching news. I have the news on for half an hour in the morning then try and switch off about it a bit. Will perhaps have a read of this thread and maybe check the news on my phone once or twice a day.

Enjoyed just watching a few films on prime or Netflix at night and switching off for a few hours.
 
JPRouve said:
As I said yesteday since the first known case dates from mid November, the virus is already everywhere, the only way to avoid that would have been for China to totally isolate itself before they even realize that the virus is spreading. People need to keep in mind that Wuhan isn't a village, it's a massive city with lots of traffic, people coming from everywhere and leaving to everywhere. We are in management mode not protection or insulation mode.
Click to expand...

This is fairly clear now, it's just to be hoped suppression can save a few more than letting it go would, the fact I know of one person who definitely has it, and think there might be a few more, shows how out of control this is, I am just a nobody in the middle of nowhere.
 
Last edited:
They also recently said 2 drugs seem to work well - some older antiviral, and one used to treat flu in Japan. Again, if they had a purely self-interested angle here, why would they push for medicines from where they don't get the money?
 
berbatrick said:
They also recently said 2 drugs seem to work well - some older antiviral, and one used to treat flu in Japan. Again, if they had a purely self-interested angle here, why would they push for medicines from where they don't get the money?
Click to expand...

Less critical thought more infographics please
 
berbatrick said:
They also recently said 2 drugs seem to work well - some older antiviral, and one used to treat flu in Japan. Again, if they had a purely self-interested angle here, why would they push for medicines from where they don't get the money?
Click to expand...

I agree with you in that what it's out in the news and what is happening in the UK are two different things. Yes the flu that the Japanese made worked in China. But only if the patient is not critically ill. By brother in law is a very senior doctor in the NHS. He said it does work but the British government is rudderless and they are telling the doctors to treat as pneumonia while it's not pneumonia. The other thing that seems to be working is what they use to treat for HIV.
The Chinese are the most knowledgeable on this for sure now. I am surprised that they have not sent a medical team to the UK. They are in France and Germany and Italy too.
 
Foxbatt said:
I agree with you in that what it's out in the news and what is happening in the UK are two different things. Yes the flu that the Japanese made worked in China. But only if the patient is not critically ill. By brother in law is a very senior doctor in the NHS. He said it does work but the British government is rudderless and they are telling the doctors to treat as pneumonia while it's not pneumonia. The other thing that seems to be working is what they use to treat for HIV.
The Chinese are the most knowledgeable on this for sure now. I am surprised that they have not sent a medical team to the UK. They are in France and Germany and Italy too.
Click to expand...

Ya, all I'm replying to are the people saying they "can't trust a word China says". It's ok to be suspicious but that's taking it too far.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Meh, China have been despicable throughout.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Disregarding the fact that they were more likely to have it appear there, since it did, I find it hard to argue against how they dealt with, and how they've provided a roadmap for the rest of the world to follow. Had this happened anywhere else in the world, and I find no reasons so far to believe it would be better dealt with. We have all been a mess. Some less so than others.

Accessory geopolitical issues aside, can you give me examples of how the Chinese have failed from a Public Health (the only thing tgat really matters right now) perspective, how they have failed the rest of the world, and give examples of other countries who fared better?
 
Arruda said:
I disagree. Disregarding the fact that they were more likely to have it appear there, since it did, I find it hard to argue against how they dealt with, and how they've provided a roadmap for the rest of the world to follow. Had this happened anywhere else in the world, and I find no reasons so far to believe it would be better dealt with. We have all been a mess. Some less so than others.

Accessory geopolitical issues aside, can you give me examples of how the Chinese have failed from a Public Health (the only thing tgat really matters right now) perspective, how they have failed the rest of the world, and give examples of other countries who fared better?
Click to expand...

People are failing to grasp that early on they actually could not have been sure that the whistleblower doctor was right.

Or what is the alternative, they actually wanted 80k infected in their own country?

It was a case of poor judgement, sure, but I see no bad intentions in jt.
 
Arruda said:
I disagree. Disregarding the fact that they were more likely to have it appear there, since it did, I find it hard to argue against how they dealt with, and how they've provided a roadmap for the rest of the world to follow. Had this happened anywhere else in the world, and I find no reasons so far to believe it would be better dealt with. We have all been a mess. Some less so than others.

Accessory geopolitical issues aside, can you give me examples of how the Chinese have failed from a Public Health (the only thing tgat really matters right now) perspective, how they have failed the rest of the world, and give examples of other countries who fared better?
Click to expand...

If I have one criticism is that they didn't shut their borders from the inside sooner but I agree with you on the rest, no one fared better, everyone made the mistakes that China made but these mistakes were understandable because it would have been very difficult to lockdown cities and entire regions before the public realize how critical the situation was.
 
Hound Dog said:
People are failing to grasp that early on they actually could not have been sure that the whistleblower doctor was right.

Or what is the alternative, they actually wanted 80k infected in their own country?

It was a case of poor judgement, sure, but I see no bad intentions in jt.
Click to expand...
Even my mid-January they were saying that it is doesn't spread human to human. They were trying to protect their economy by controlling the information (as in 'move along, nothing to see here').
 
berbatrick said:
I know that they covered it up initially
Click to expand...
Did they?
Maybe their very different culture pushed them into trying to contain it before it booked a flight.

I believe they did what they thought was necessary at the time and have been falling over themselves ever since trying to help. The rep who dismissed the original concern from the young doctor who died is probably missing now
But that's not our business.

China looks bad now but they'll look a real super power when life returns to some sort of normality for everyone.
 
Hound Dog said:
People are failing to grasp that early on they actually could not have been sure that the whistleblower doctor was right.

Or what is the alternative, they actually wanted 80k infected in their own country?

It was a case of poor judgement, sure, but I see no bad intentions in jt.
Click to expand...
Not only that, some people make it sound like there was an effort from the central government to shut down things, and that the whistleblower doctor was massively persecuted or something.

By 18 December there were 8 cases of pneumonia of unknown origin or something like that. As a doctor I find it hard to guess how they could have picked up something was wrong far before that. Yet by then it had already been national news in the entire country by state radio so they weren't exactly trying to cover it up. Soon there were international scientists there helping to study the thing.

The whistleblower was probably one of the first few people to realize the true world-changing potential of what was going on and was discredited by the local government, either because they wanted to avoid panic or were just as dumb as western governments have been. He wasn't arrested or anything, he kept working until he got ill and died.

The fact Italy has now surpassed China in terms of deaths (and yes, numbers are reliable, in fact Covid-19 science is as open-source as something can be and the Chinese are part of that) is a testament to how badly our governments have failed us, how people whose job is to keep track of these things either failed at their jobs or or were ignored virtually everywhere.

The below piece, by a very famous author, is an example of how there is Western propaganda in the US very much akin to the WMD in Iraq issue. Lies, lies and misreprensentations to hide their asses.

The government only instituted a lockdown in Wuhan on January 23—seven weeks after the virus first appeared. As events in Italy, the United States, Spain, and France have shown, quite a lot can happen in a week, much less seven.
Click to expand...

Pretending what we realized by early January was known by December 1st. Cnut.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/china-trolling-world-and-avoiding-blame/608332/
 
lynchie said:
Not an expert, but I was wondering if it's just that checking people off as recovered is less of a priority. I think at one point the process for being officially recovered required 3 negative tests - has that changed? Can't imagine Italian doctors are particularly fussed about carrying out a third test on someone that's had no symptoms for a few days.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, following on from that maybe they dont have enough tests to keep retesting to identify the recovered? As you say using them for the people with symptoms.
 
Arruda said:
I disagree. Disregarding the fact that they were more likely to have it appear there, since it did, I find it hard to argue against how they dealt with, and how they've provided a roadmap for the rest of the world to follow. Had this happened anywhere else in the world, and I find no reasons so far to believe it would be better dealt with. We have all been a mess. Some less so than others.

Accessory geopolitical issues aside, can you give me examples of how the Chinese have failed from a Public Health (the only thing tgat really matters right now) perspective, how they have failed the rest of the world, and give examples of other countries who fared better?
Click to expand...

I think I've been pretty clear than the entire world has handled this very, very poorly. As for China being bad, I have two colleagues - one from Shanghai and one from Hong Kong who were in the heart of the outbreak, and they're pretty much disgusted with their country. Not only from a hygiene perspective, but one of my colleagues dismisses almost all positive news coming out of China.
 
It's a bit more complicated than that of trying to hide it. People may think that China is a one man show but it's fairly decentralised too. Each province and city are fairly autonomous in things like health care etc. Even the police is local.
So the information I got was the authorities in Wuhan didn't believe what the doctors were saying. It's not the central government in Beijing. I think the authorities in Wuhan was scared that if Beijing finds out they will lose their jobs.
Once the central government found out the seriousness of the issue they took over from the local authorities.
In fact the Chinese high court has reprimanded the Wuhan police for threatening the whistle blower doctor who unfortunately gave his life for trying to save other lives.
That said the rest of the world should follow their advice because they have gone through it and won so far. I know the European countries are very grateful for the help China is providing them now.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
I think I've been pretty clear than the entire world has handled this very, very poorly. As for China being bad, I have two colleagues - one from Shanghai and one from Hong Kong who were in the heart of the outbreak, and they're pretty much disgusted with their country. Not only from a hygiene perspective, but one of my colleagues dismisses almost all positive news coming out of China.
Click to expand...

Something related mentioned on the BBC:
A wave of anger and grief flooded Chinese social media site Weibo when news of Dr Li's death broke late on Thursday.

The top two trending hashtags on the website were "Wuhan government owes Dr Li Wenliang and apology" and "We want freedom of speech".

Both hashtags were quickly censored. When the BBC searched Weibo on Friday morning, hundreds of thousands of comments had already been wiped.

Many have now taken to posting under the hashtag "Can you manage, do you understand?" - a reference to the letter Dr Li was told to sign where he was accused of disturbing "social order".

Only a handful of critical comments now remain - many of which do not directly name him - but are an indication of the mounting anger and distrust towards the Chinese government.

"Do not forget how you feel now. Do not forget this anger. We must not let this happen again," said one comment on Weibo.

"The truth will always be treated as a rumour. How long are you going to lie? Are you still lying? What else do you have to hide?" another said.
Click to expand...
 
Revan said:
Even my mid-January they were saying that it is doesn't spread human to human. They were trying to protect their economy by controlling the information (as in 'move along, nothing to see here').
Click to expand...

So basically the same that everyone else have done. Rather short-sighted (also in regards to threir economy), but not malicious.
 
We are on a steeper curve than Italy according to the Financial Times.

Boris announces school closures... then says that if a child has one (of two) parents who is a teacher, teaching assistant, NHS worker, food delivery worker etc they should go in. Hence that isn’t working.
Politely asks people to stop going pub. His own Dad goes on tv to say he’ll be going anyway.
He had an “expert” on tv yesterday saying this could go down ina few weeks.
Absolutely horrendous from the Pm.
 
Wumminator said:
We are on a steeper curve than Italy according to the Financial Times.

Boris announces school closures... then says that if a child has one (of two) parents who is a teacher, teaching assistant, NHS worker, food delivery worker etc they should go in. Hence that isn’t working.
Politely asks people to stop going pub. His own Dad goes on tv to say he’ll be going anyway.
He had an “expert” on tv yesterday saying this could go down ina few weeks.
Absolutely horrendous from the Pm.
Click to expand...

Sorry to say, the deaths will rack up soon. Humanity is failing.
 
What grates me is when I hear people around me talk about how hard it is to isolate. Holy feck, you have a roof on your head, food, entertainment etc. and you can't sacrifice your social life to save lives?
 
Hound Dog said:
So basically the same that everyone else have done. Rather short-sighted (also in regards to threir economy), but not malicious.
Click to expand...
Everyone else has no idea cause it was only there. They thought (hoped) that it was just another SARS, and were trying to cover up. When the lockdown happened, it was already game over for them and the world, the genie was out of the bottle. They announced the lockdown just 2 days (if I am not mistaken, correct me if I am wrong) after claiming that there is no evidence that the virus transmits human to human. That is a faster policy change than that of UK's.

They did a stellar job since then (assuming that they are not lying in the first place, which is never a safe assumption when it comes to China), but this has been primarily China's fault and their gift to humanity. Sorry for not thanking them that they are selling masks to Italy.
 
Is it because Madrid in particular has got hit badly? Not really sure why they've accelerated so much compared to everyone else? Over double mortality rate is extreme.

UK Dates​
UK Deaths​
Italy Dates​
Italy Deaths​
Spain Dates​
Spain Deaths​
March 8th​
3​
Feb 23rd​
3​
March 5th​
3​
March 9th​
5​
Feb 24th​
7​
March 6th​
8​
March 10th​
6​
Feb 25th​
11​
March 7th​
10​
March 11th​
8​
Feb 26th​
12​
March 8th​
17​
March 12th​
10​
Feb 27th​
17​
March 9th​
30​
March 13th​
11​
Feb 28th​
21​
March 10th​
36​
March 14th​
21​
Feb 29th​
29​
March 11th​
55​
March 15th​
35​
March 1st​
41​
March 12th​
86​
March 16th​
55​
March 2nd​
52​
March 13th​
133​
March 17th​
71​
March 3rd​
79​
March 14th​
196​
March 18th​
104​
March 4th​
107​
March 15th​
294​
March 19th​
144​
March 5th​
148​
March 16th​
342​
-​
-​
March 6th​
197​
March 17th​
533​
-​
-​
March 7th​
233​
March 18th​
638​
-​
-​
March 8th​
366​
March 19th​
830​
​
 
Last edited:
On other news, US's is currently the second country that has been hit hardest (after Italy). 4478 new cases today, a large increase from yesterday. By the end of the week, the number of new cases is gonna surpass Italy, and next week people are going to die in the hundreds per day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.