SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[LovelyLittlePanda]

I’m like you, I prefer to get my medical information from Facebook friends who went to the University of Life.

I don't have facebook. But an argument like this makes me think you do and believe everything that's on CNN.
Anyway, good talk. I apologize for caring about the lives of the other 99,3%
I'm like you, I think offending someone is worse than destroying ones lifelihood.

Yep, let’s compress 2.8million people down to a stat. 2.8 million people! Incredible

that’s before asking them the question that none of them seem to be able to answer; if it’s so normal why did the world economy shut down in every country?

You might need to sit down for this.

2.8 million of which most elderly or already very sick people

There's no need to feel scared by not directing the question at me. I never said "it's" (meaning what exactly) is normal. It's a nasty virus, my point is that we can't do anything about it and the draconian shit isn't justified.

Regardless, the answer is (justified) fear and the initial (justified) lockdown. Also there's a pinball effect. Meaning Germany screws Sweden even if the latter doesn't do a lockdown. Were you old enough to remember 2008?

Each year, 1.35 million people are killed on roadways around the world.
If i were to propose a ban on driving, what would your response be to my argument that you don't care about the 1.35m annual deaths?
There's no reason why we can't stop driving to save the 1.35m lives. We can label the few that absolutely have to "essential businesses" or whatever. A ban on driving sounds far less stupid than a ban on the most basic of social interactions. To a rational person at least.

If we want to to judge entire populations by individual experiences lets go with mine where I've spent the last 10 months feeling like crap and having tests due to the effects of long covid and I'm well under 50. Glad you were fine though as that's what matters.

Your maths don't make any sense. You start off by saying the entire worlds population have had long covid so the mortality rate is tiny, but in the next post are pointing to high mortality. If we can't trust the tested figures as you insinuate and it's not actually the whole worlds population then there is no maths that would give you an accurate mortality rate.

By the way, most of the world has been in lockdown which kind of insinuates that far fewer people have had it than would have otherwise.



Those figures don't make any sense as you've already admitted that you don't know how many people have had it (somewhere between 131.6 million and 8 billion according to you).

I never did what you're accusing me of. Read again. I pointed to excess mortality. Excess does not mean "high".

I didn't insinuate anything. I said the cases of deaths with Covid (instead of causal) would probably not affect the survival rate rate any more than the amount of people that haven't had covid. You know since were only dealing with 2 something million deaths, an increase/decrease over there has a more profound effect on the actual number.
But since, you're so obsessed with the actual surival rate. You pick one. No really, There's enough figures to make estimates. 99,3%? 99%? pick one dude. I'll use it from now on.

How many people did we save with the lockdown? If you think it's marginally more than the amount of people dying from increased sucidies, increased obesity, undiagnosed ilnesses, stress, etc you clearly haven't been attention. Let alone the draconian measures being a giant violation of constitutional rights in many nations.

You got sick, you recovered. Good for you if you wanna use your experience to justify muzzling children, closing down businesses or travel. 99,3% of people have a life to live, including you.

Do you live an unhealthy lifestyle? Meaning you: don't sleep what you should be sleeping, you eat poorly, you don't lift, you don't exercise, you're overweight, etc?

Do you have pre-existing conditions and were you careless?

This might come as a shock to anyone from the nation of the great NHS.
The vast, vast majority of people are responsible for their own health. By the time you're not, you should have the ability to say goodbye to your family without plexiglass in between, or you're more than capable to decide if you want to see your grandchildren.

Edit:
I see that opposing views aren't allowed on this topic. Absolutely nothing I have said is "conspiratorial". I won't bother responding since any mention of an accurate mortality/survival rate will throw the Brit mods panties in a bunch and question the new found meaning in their live of "helping to fight the good fight" by agreeing to mask mandates and lockdowns. I'll link to this thread on another forum in case questioning your own believes does not make you uncomfortable.

The mod who deleted might as well have been the subject of this article

 

[golden_blunder]

What are you on about a driving ban for? Driving is something most people can control. Most accidents are down to one side not paying enough attention

how does that compare to covid? When you might be unlucky enough to get it from a delivery.

again just washing away all the old. Hey they’re just old right?

what a selfish cnut you are

 

[Balljy]

But since, you're so obsessed with the actual surival rate. You pick one. No really, There's enough figures to make estimates. 99,3%? 99%? pick one dude. I'll use it from now on.

If the mortality rate is 99% and we let it run riot the number of deaths is too scary to think about, never mind the deaths from people who can't get into the full hospitals.

How many people did we save with the lockdown? If you think it's marginally more than the amount of people dying from increased sucidies, increased obesity, undiagnosed ilnesses, stress, etc you clearly haven't been attention. Let alone the draconian measures being a giant violation of constitutional rights in many nations.

We certainly saved a lot.

You got sick, you recovered. Good for you if you wanna use your experience to justify muzzling children, closing down businesses or travel. 99,3% of people have a life to live, including you.

I haven't fully recovered as a lot of other people haven't as well. I'm getting there though. You used the fact you had no long-term symptoms to make a point, but I guess no-one else can.

Do you live an unhealthy lifestyle? Meaning you: don't sleep what you should be sleeping, you eat poorly, you don't lift, you don't exercise, you're overweight, etc?

Do you have pre-existing conditions and were you careless?

No, very healthy and always have been, sleep well, eat well, play football and not remotely overweight. Anything else you want to use as an excuse on why healthy people can't suffer even though that's proven now?

It's also quite rude to assume otherwise, but guess that's just your posting style.

 

[mitChley]

I don't have facebook. But an argument like this makes me think you do and believe everything that's on CNN.
Anyway, good talk. I apologize for caring about the lives of the other 99,3%
I'm like you, I think offending someone is worse than destroying ones lifelihood.



You might need to sit down for this.

2.8 million of which most elderly or already very sick people

There's no need to feel scared by not directing the question at me. I never said "it's" (meaning what exactly) is normal. It's a nasty virus, my point is that we can't do anything about it and the draconian shit isn't justified.

Regardless, the answer is (justified) fear and the initial (justified) lockdown. Also there's a pinball effect. Meaning Germany screws Sweden even if the latter doesn't do a lockdown. Were you old enough to remember 2008?

Each year, 1.35 million people are killed on roadways around the world.
If i were to propose a ban on driving, what would your response be to my argument that you don't care about the 1.35m annual deaths?
There's no reason why we can't stop driving to save the 1.35m lives. We can label the few that absolutely have to "essential businesses" or whatever. A ban on driving sounds far less stupid than a ban on the most basic of social interactions. To a rational person at least.



I never did what you're accusing me of. Read again. I pointed to excess mortality. Excess does not mean "high".

I didn't insinuate anything. I said the cases of deaths with Covid (instead of causal) would probably not affect the survival rate rate any more than the amount of people that haven't had covid. You know since were only dealing with 2 something million deaths, an increase/decrease over there has a more profound effect on the actual number.
But since, you're so obsessed with the actual surival rate. You pick one. No really, There's enough figures to make estimates. 99,3%? 99%? pick one dude. I'll use it from now on.

How many people did we save with the lockdown? If you think it's marginally more than the amount of people dying from increased sucidies, increased obesity, undiagnosed ilnesses, stress, etc you clearly haven't been attention. Let alone the draconian measures being a giant violation of constitutional rights in many nations.

You got sick, you recovered. Good for you if you wanna use your experience to justify muzzling children, closing down businesses or travel. 99,3% of people have a life to live, including you.

Do you live an unhealthy lifestyle? Meaning you: don't sleep what you should be sleeping, you eat poorly, you don't lift, you don't exercise, you're overweight, etc?

Do you have pre-existing conditions and were you careless?

This might come as a shock to anyone from the nation of the great NHS.
The vast, vast majority of people are responsible for their own health. By the time you're not, you should have the ability to say goodbye to your family without plexiglass in between, or you're more than capable to decide if you want to see your grandchildren.

Edit:
I see that opposing views aren't allowed on this topic. Absolutely nothing I have said is "conspiratorial". I won't bother responding since any mention of an accurate mortality/survival rate will throw the Brit mods panties in a bunch and question the new found meaning in their live of "helping to fight the good fight" by agreeing to mask mandates and lockdowns. I'll link to this thread on another forum in case questioning your own believes does not make you uncomfortable.

The mod who deleted might as well have been the subject of this article

I've not followed a lot of what you've posted but christ, that's one of the worst takes I've read in a long long time.

 

[Raoul]

The mod who deleted might as well have been the subject of this article

This is a right wing web site and the author is affiliated with Breitbart. Is this your idea of a quality source ?

 

[Penna]

@LovelyLittlePanda, there are actually fewer than 8 billion people in the world, but that's besides the point.

Your argument still doesn't make sense, because just as many people have recovered from Covid and haven't been been counted in the numbers, many other people have died of Covid and also not been counted in the numbers. I had said we can only work with the figures we have.

To look at the mortality, you can only look at total number of reported infections and total number of reported Covid deaths. You can't use the whole world population as your starting point.

edit - and I don't live on a tiny island, I'm in southern Europe.

 

[christy87]

@LovelyLittlePanda, there are actually fewer than 8 billion people in the world, but that's besides the point.

Your argument still doesn't make sense, because just as many people have recovered from Covid and haven't been been counted in the numbers, many other people have died of Covid and also not been counted in the numbers. I had said we can only work with the figures we have.

To look at the mortality, you can only look at total number of reported infections and total number of reported Covid deaths. You can't use the whole world population as your starting point.

edit - and I don't live on a tiny island, I'm in southern Europe.

He has no mention of long COVID which is affecting an untold number of people.

it’s ok to question government’s handling of the pandemic, but to say let it run free is quite idiotic, 1st you’d have hospitals filling up COVID patients, then the yearly flu patients, winter vomiting bug and so on in a system that’s struggling. Then think about how many variants there would be world wide if it wasn’t semi controlled, vaccines would be out of date before they launched.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

What are you on about a driving ban for? Driving is something most people can control. Most accidents are down to one side not paying enough attention

how does that compare to covid? When you might be unlucky enough to get it from a delivery.

again just washing away all the old. Hey they’re just old right?

what a selfish cnut you are

You can control "social distancing", "wearing a mask" or whatever (but you really can't, because we're social creatures) and you feel those things are justified for 2.8m deaths on a global level. Correct?

I feel we should stop driving to avoid 1.35m annual deaths. But hey, they choose to get in their vehicle? You're a selfish cnut for not doing anything and everything to stop them from dying!

Where does the madness end?

Old people are free to distance themselves or wear a mask. At least I respect an 80 year old enough to decide for themselves if they want to see their grandchildren.

If the mortality rate is 99% and we let it run riot the number of deaths is too scary to think about, never mind the deaths from people who can't get into the full hospitals.




I haven't fully recovered as a lot of other people haven't as well. I'm getting there though. You used the fact you had no symptoms to make a point, but I guess no-one else can.



No, very healthy and always have been, sleep well, eat well, play football and not remotely overweight. Anything else you want to use as an excuse on why healthy people can't suffer even though that's proven now?

"Suffer"? Dude you got sick and recovered. We all have. I'd suggest you get used to some level of pain or discomfort. You know the type of shit which is bound to happen when you get older.

It's already "run Riot", it's a virus. The lockdowns, curfew, mask mandate haven't had a drastic enough effect on the number of deaths to justify the draconian measures. Let alone that they're not being followed because they're inhumane.

So many words to say "I'm dumb as a brick"

So few words to say "I do as I'm told".

This is a right wing web site and the author is affiliated with Breitbart. Is this your idea of a quality source ?

It's an OPINION piece.

@LovelyLittlePanda, there are actually fewer than 8 billion people in the world, but that's besides the point.

Your argument still doesn't make sense, because just as many people have recovered from Covid and haven't been been counted in the numbers, many other people have died of Covid and also not been counted in the numbers. I had said we can only work with the figures we have.

To look at the mortality, you can only look at total number of reported infections and total number of reported Covid deaths. You can't use the whole world population as your starting point.

edit - and I don't live on a tiny island, I'm in southern Europe.

The bolded bit is not only childish, it shows you struggle with divisions. What difference does 2.85m/7.8b or 2.85m/8b make? not a whole lot. It's called rounding. The worlds population is set to be 8 billion in 2023, with or without Covid. Use google.

You're talking as you've only been listening to the fear porn and we have no data. We do. We can look at everyone who has tested positive and see if they die of Covid You're saying I can't say the mortality rate is 0,7%, because it might be 1%.
It's roughly 1%, this might get me censored, because it makes you/the mod/facebook uncomfortable to think that such a low number is justifying keeping your children out of school and your parents away from the kids.

All I did with my initial (deleted) post was argue that because plenty of symptomatic and asymptomatic have contracted covid, the number is reasonably much, much lower than the ones you would get using the above method. Also it's not factoring the deaths from undiagnosed illnesses, increased obesity, increased stress, etc.

Anyway. You google it, you bring up the data, you give me a number. I'll use any number you give me ranging from 0,003% to 2%. If you come up with a number outside of that range, you would be a moron. You'll be surprised at how low the number is considering you've been watching fear porn for over a year.

He has no mention of long COVID which is affecting an untold number of people.

it’s ok to question government’s handling of the pandemic, but to say let it run free is quite idiotic, 1st you’d have hospitals filling up COVID patients, then the yearly flu patients, winter vomiting bug and so on in a system that’s struggling. Then think about how many variants there would be world wide if it wasn’t semi controlled, vaccines would be out of date before they launched.

Oh yeah, the fecking long Covid is what's killing people more than undiagnosed cancer and increased obesity and less healthier lifestyles (the latter making Covid even more "deadly"). I venture to say the increased smoking from increased stress because of the lockdown is gonna cause more suffering from lung cancer alone than the long term affects of a covid infection (which you're gonna get infected with or without lockdown, eventually). But I guess we're both talking out of our ass, since you didn't post numbers.

I got news for you, most people living right now are suffering from long term effects of previous trauma. It's called living your life. It's also called getting over it. If you want to quarantine yourself go right ahead. Stop telling me and my grandma we can't say goodbye to each other (unless it's through a phone held up by a nurse).

Also since you Brits are run by Tories. How many deaths will their NHS cuts cost and other budget cuts cost you once this is all over?

 

[AgentSmith]

There’s been nothing lovely or little about this particular Panda today.

 

[Penna]

He has no mention of long COVID which is affecting an untold number of people.

it’s ok to question government’s handling of the pandemic, but to say let it run free is quite idiotic, 1st you’d have hospitals filling up COVID patients, then the yearly flu patients, winter vomiting bug and so on in a system that’s struggling. Then think about how many variants there would be world wide if it wasn’t semi controlled, vaccines would be out of date before they launched.

Of course. Your point about the terrible effect it's had on health systems (in all countries, not just developing ones) is probably the main reason why this can't be treated like any other infectious disease. It doesn't matter if you have a publicly-funded system or a private one, they're all creaking and some of them have completely collapsed - like Brazil's, where the president has decided to let Covid run its course.

 

[Sandikan]

Not so lovely little panda isn't on fb, but if he was, you know he'd be one of those who only posts in memes, and nonsense like one I saw the other day that went along the lines of "such a deadly disease that you probably don't even know you have it, and for 99.9% who have it it has no effects"

The way he dismisses 2.8million deaths as nothing is quite disturbing.
I hope he doesn't have ONE person close to him (presuming there are any people close to him) die from it.

 

[Rado_N]

Such stupid. Wow.

 

[mitChley]

So few words to say "I do as I'm told".

I do what I can to try and avoid catching Covid, for the sake of my own health but also the risk of then potentially giving it to other, less healthy, people. But I guess that just makes me a sucker. I should just have gone round licking windows like yourself and hoping I'd be OK, I wish I'd told my mate before he passed away from Covid that this was all fine, he was only 34 but I guess that's the price for doing what he's told. What a chump.

 

[Dumbstar]

Yup 2 good reasons

And your sick children with cancer, severe asthma or organ problems. They probably don't need to hang around too long either using up the world's resources which could go to healthy recovering people like little panda instead. If you love kids so much just make another (healthier) one.

 

[Balljy]

"Suffer"? Dude you got sick and recovered. We all have. I'd suggest you get used to some level of pain or discomfort. You know the type of shit which is bound to happen when you get older.

I literally just told you I haven't yet after 10 months, multiple hospital appointments, drugs and scans. You're really a lovely little panda aren't you?

Millions have died prematurely, whether it's a few weeks or a few years that's still a bad thing. there's a recent story about the million long covid sufferers just in the UK and we should be listening to you..

Long Covid: More than a million affected in February, survey suggests - BBC News

 

[Raoul]

It's an OPINION piece.

By a charlatan right wing pundit.

https://theoutline.com/post/8100/kurt-schlicter-trump-kurds-syria

 

[jojojo]

I'm going to be lazy and quote myself. All that's happened since my original post two weeks ago is that the numbers have risen.

In terms of actual UK data that ignores how many people have been infected but looking at the total population of the UK instead, around 0.2% of the UK population have died.

Breaking that down further:
Around 0.26% of the adult population have died, with the number of people estimated to have had covid running at below 20% that would suggest an overall adult IFR of above 1%.
It looks like it has already killed around 1% of the over 65s.
And around 15,000 x 15-64 year olds, mostly male and mostly in the 45-64 group - which means that actual deaths are running at around 0.04% in the working age population, which could turn into something far worse if more of the population did get infected.

Based on the latest ONS around 20% of the UK population have had covid at some point in the last year. That's based on blood antibodies in a random sample of the UK population not on people volunteering to be tested because they're experiencing symptoms and that's what's happened despite the lockdowns and social distancing.

The back of the envelope calculation suggests that if that number went up to 100% around 1% of the country will die. It's true that it's not the end of life on earth, but it's a big deal if you or your family is part of the statistic.

That however ignores the impact on the health service - if it had been overwhelmed then excess deaths would have risen even further. At which point you either leave all the covid cases at home, including the ones who a couple of nights with oxygen and/or other medical support could have saved or you continue to try and treat them and there's no room for any other kind of health care and no chance of the staff coping.

Some countries don't get the same choice, they can't afford the health service or the care systems (or even the food, safe water, shelter) and the elderly, the disabled, the cancer sufferers, the ones with compromised immune systems die anyway - pandemic or not. If you're in a rich country though, you have to look at your own country's situation to decide how many people you're willing to let die. Wearing a mask doesn't sound like a big deal to me, if it saves someone's dad or their grannie or it stops an unlucky 30 year old catching a disease that can leave them disabled for months.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

Not so lovely little panda isn't on fb, but if he was, you know he'd be one of those who only posts in memes, and nonsense like one I saw the other day that went along the lines of "such a deadly disease that you probably don't even know you have it, and for 99.9% who have it it has no effects"

The way he dismisses 2.8million deaths as nothing is quite disturbing.
I hope he doesn't have ONE person close to him (presuming there are any people close to him) die from it.

You're on FB, you would know.
You realize you're saying my criticism of the lockdown and other draconian measures is nonsense because I didn't cry enough about 2.8m deaths? Great argument.

No amount of stupid shit like not sending your kids to school is going to reduce that number. A similar number is going to die eventually and with how easily the virus is mutating and spreading to animals as well, waiting till we vaccinate everyone (including the 3rd world which we have track record of not giving a shit about), before we get some mutant that vaccine does 0 shits against is wishful thinking.

I do what I can to try and avoid catching Covid, for the sake of my own health but also the risk of then potentially giving it to other, less healthy, people. But I guess that just makes me a sucker. I should just have gone round licking windows like yourself and hoping I'd be OK, I wish I'd told my mate before he passed away from Covid that this was all fine, he was only 34 but I guess that's the price for doing what he's told. What a chump.

I have adhered to all laws and advice I've been required to since the start of the pandemic. Including not going to work, keeping my distance (except when some smelly runner runs up behind me with his mate), wearing a mask inside, not meeting up in groups, etc.

Except for hugging in my mom (she's a doc specializing in public health) and bro when I go to visit once in a blue moon. Which is exactly my point, no one that's reading this has done everything 100% by the book. Because it's not fecking possible. I never said we shouldn't make an effort to reduce the spread of the virus. I think a lot of the measures go too far far too little return. The 9pm curfew over here is total horseshit. I can't even go for a walk by myself after work? I oppose government spying, I oppose headscarf bans, I oppose a curfew. It has nothing to do with covid deaths.

Sorry to hear about your mate, if you want to feel better by blaming people critical of keeping children out of school, like me, feel free. I once had a 14y old mate who died of a heart condition on the pitch. If only we banned uncontrolled exercise we could have saved his live

And your sick children with cancer, severe asthma or organ problems. They probably don't need to hang around too long either using up the world's resources which could go to healthy recovering people like little panda instead. If you love kids so much just make another (healthier) one.

The sick children are children, DUMBstar. They're gonna touch the doorknob that has snot on it and then rub their eyes, they're gonna go near adults and forget the rules in their enthusiasm. If they need to stay isolated anyway, why the feck

Do all the other kids need to have their education compromised
Can't I not go for a walk by myself after 9pm

You have 0 evidence either of the above will even save one child. What will help is all of us isolating permanently. I guarantee you we will save some poor child's life.

They will die for the same reasons advanced aids patient with compromised immune systems will eventually die, and the poor children will feck up a lot quicker and a lot more often than the aids patient.

You're gonna need to get over the "oh the poor children with cancer" argument and decide based on cost-benefit. It's how policy works. It's part of growing up. Don't be the 14 year old vegan girl who doesn't like the idea of animals killing each other. It will happen just like kids with cancer. I believe in a God and I hate him. Have you read the old testament? He's a bad dude.

I literally just told you I haven't yet after 10 months, multiple hospital appointments, drugs and scans. You're really a lovely little panda aren't you?

Millions have died prematurely, whether it's a few weeks or a few years that's still a bad thing. there's a recent story about the million long covid sufferers just in the UK and we should be listening to you..

Long Covid: More than a million affected in February, survey suggests - BBC News

And how many people did you spread covid to and kill during all those?

Yes people dying prematurely is a bad thing. So is keeping your kids out of school (very harmful), curfews (unproven to help), and mask mandates (help very very little, according to the head of the Dutch public health services, from NOS, the Dutch BBC)

By a charlatan right wing pundit.

https://theoutline.com/post/8100/kurt-schlicter-trump-kurds-syria

That's a lot of dirty words for saying you disagree with his opinion. It should be easy to dismantle it now that you've said he's basically Ben Shapiro.

This describes a lot of people that agree with all the draconian shit, from your link:

After all, Trump and the right-wing media regularly encourage their base of comfortable suburbanites to overreact to insignificant or nonexistent threats of this sort, and they eat it up

I'm going to be lazy and quote myself. All that's happened since my original post two weeks ago is that the numbers have risen.



Based on the latest ONS around 20% of the UK population have had covid at some point in the last year. That's based on blood antibodies in a random sample of the UK population not on people volunteering to be tested because they're experiencing symptoms and that's what's happened despite the lockdowns and social distancing.

The back of the envelope calculation suggests that if that number went up to 100% around 1% of the country will die. It's true that it's not the end of life on earth, but it's a big deal if you or your family is part of the statistic.

That however ignores the impact on the health service - if it had been overwhelmed then excess deaths would have risen even further. At which point you either leave all the covid cases at home, including the ones who a couple of nights with oxygen and/or other medical support could have saved or you continue to try and treat them and there's no room for any other kind of health care and no chance of the staff coping.

Some countries don't get the same choice, they can't afford the health service or the care systems (or even the food, safe water, shelter) and the elderly, the disabled, the cancer sufferers, the ones with compromised immune systems die anyway - pandemic or not. If you're in a rich country though, you have to look at your own country's situation to decide how many people you're willing to let die. Wearing a mask doesn't sound like a big deal to me, if it saves someone's dad or their grannie or it stops an unlucky 30 year old catching a disease that can leave them disabled for months.

Great post and I'm glad you reposted.

We really don't know if this near indefinite lockdown will prevent the 20% figure of reaching a 100%. There might as well be a new mutant somewhere in a furry little animal or in a human in a far off land that the current vaccines won't protect for. Do we go into another 2 year lockdown with violations of my constitutional rights 'till we develop a new vaccine?

It's true that health providers would be overwhelmed more than without a lockdown. But why are we not looking at deaths caused by the lockdown? We're all fatter, we exercise less, we're less happy, we're more stressed, we're addicted more, etc, etc. How much permanent damage does the disruption of social life do to our children? How much unhappiness and deaths will our right wing governments cause when they get to chop at your NHS, education or public parks because we've ballooned the debt?

My problem with wearing a mask is the same as my problem with Geert Wilders' proposed headscarf ban or the current burka ban. People should able to decide freely what they want to wear, especially when the cloth mask has a very, very, very small net positive effect. Being okay with a 2 year mask mandate is dangerously close to the dude that says: "Why should I care they're spying on me, I've got nothing to hide". Of course, a lot of people including the "you're a dumb trump supporting FB guy for questioning my believes" crowd, like @Sandikan @Pexbo think like that, which is a much bigger problem in our society than a virus that's 4 times as deadly as a bad seasonal flu. (don't be lazy @mod by pressing that delete button. Google it and see this figure is correct and IMHO very generous)

 

[Balljy]

And how many people did you spread covid to and kill during all those?

None? I self isolated whilst I had covid itself (and wasn't that ill at the time). You aren't infectious with long covid as I'm sure you know, it's the after effects it has on the body that cause it...

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

None? I self isolated whilst I had it (and wasn't that ill at the time). You aren't infectious with long covid as I'm sure you know...

My bad.

It's easy to forget when the actual disease was far less damaging to me (and 99% of people) than the government mandated stuff that has me struggling to earn a living or has me say the last farewell to a loved one through a phone held up by a nurse.

It was leaked by die Welt that the German government even hired a bunch of scientists to maximize the amount of fear porn and its effects so people would happily comply with the lockdown:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...enministerium-Wissenschaftler-einspannte.html

Let's hope mr Mod doesn't argue Die Welt isn't a reputable enough source for him or that it's "conspiratorial".

How easily people have bought into the fear porn is abundantly clear when half of the replies to my post (the stupid half) don't contain anything of substance. It's scary when you think they've accepted uprooting their entire life without even the most basic grasp on the subject, like how there's a 99% survival rate.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

My bad.

It's easy to forget when the actual disease was far less damaging to me (and 99% of people) than the government mandated stuff that has me struggling to earn a living or has me say the last farewell to a loved one through a phone held up by a nurse.

It was leaked by die Welt that the German government even hired a bunch of scientists to maximize the amount of fear porn and its effects so people would happily comply with the lockdown:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...enministerium-Wissenschaftler-einspannte.html

Let's hope mr Mod doesn't argue Die Welt isn't a reputable enough source for him or that it's "conspiratorial".

How easily people have bought into the fear porn is abundantly clear when half of the replies to my post (the stupid half) don't contain anything of substance. It's scary when you think they've accepted uprooting their entire life without even the most basic grasp on the subject, like how there's a 99% survival rate.

The article states that they hired experts to corroborate the statement that Germany couldn't handle another spike in cases therefore it wanted to make the public aware of the absolute worst situation that would occur if people ignored their advice. That's not "fear porn", it's called "reality".

You should stick to football discussion, preferably without being hostile to folk with whom you don't agree with.

 

[Balljy]

My bad.

It's easy to forget when the actual disease was far less damaging to me (and 99% of people) than the government mandated stuff that has me struggling to earn a living or has me say the last farewell to a loved one through a phone held up by a nurse.

It was leaked by die Welt that the German government even hired a bunch of scientists to maximize the amount of fear porn and its effects so people would happily comply with the lockdown:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...enministerium-Wissenschaftler-einspannte.html

Let's hope mr Mod doesn't argue Die Welt isn't a reputable enough source for him or that it's "conspiratorial".

How easily people have bought into the fear porn is abundantly clear when half of the replies to my post (the stupid half) don't contain anything of substance. It's scary when you think they've accepted uprooting their entire life without even the most basic grasp on the subject, like how there's a 99% survival rate.

Lockdown is hard, yeah and I think everyone would rather we weren't in it. Wearing masks really isn't hard though and I couldn't care less about that rule - it has absolutely no effect on me whatsoever.

People are pretty well educated in this thread and definitely know there is around a 99% survival rate. If you've chosen that 1% of a population potentially dying is OK then that's your choice as is people who say that isn't OK. In the UK alone that would be 600,000 people and at that amount would affect most families.

There's also the people with longer term effects who don't die such as the 1,1000,000 in the UK in February. A lot of those people can't currently work and that is a serious issue in itself for the economy.

Anyway, we're not going to agree and that's normal so I'm done with this. People are looking at the same figures as you and deciding they have a different preference in how to handle it, that doesn't make them stupid.

 

[Dumbstar]

You're on FB, you would know.
You realize you're saying my criticism of the lockdown and other draconian measures is nonsense because I didn't cry enough about 2.8m deaths? Great argument.

No amount of stupid shit like not sending your kids to school is going to reduce that number. A similar number is going to die eventually and with how easily the virus is mutating and spreading to animals as well, waiting till we vaccinate everyone (including the 3rd world which we have track record of not giving a shit about), before we get some mutant that vaccine does 0 shits against is wishful thinking.



I have adhered to all laws and advice I've been required to since the start of the pandemic. Including not going to work, keeping my distance (except when some smelly runner runs up behind me with his mate), wearing a mask inside, not meeting up in groups, etc.

Except for hugging in my mom (she's a doc specializing in public health) and bro when I go to visit once in a blue moon. Which is exactly my point, no one that's reading this has done everything 100% by the book. Because it's not fecking possible. I never said we shouldn't make an effort to reduce the spread of the virus. I think a lot of the measures go too far far too little return. The 9pm curfew over here is total horseshit. I can't even go for a walk by myself after work? I oppose government spying, I oppose headscarf bans, I oppose a curfew. It has nothing to do with covid deaths.

Sorry to hear about your mate, if you want to feel better by blaming people critical of keeping children out of school, like me, feel free. I once had a 14y old mate who died of a heart condition on the pitch. If only we banned uncontrolled exercise we could have saved his live



The sick children are children, DUMBstar. They're gonna touch the doorknob that has snot on it and then rub their eyes, they're gonna go near adults and forget the rules in their enthusiasm. If they need to stay isolated anyway, why the feck

Do all the other kids need to have their education compromised
Can't I not go for a walk by myself after 9pm

You have 0 evidence either of the above will even save one child. What will help is all of us isolating permanently. I guarantee you we will save some poor child's life.

They will die for the same reasons advanced aids patient with compromised immune systems will eventually die, and the poor children will feck up a lot quicker and a lot more often than the aids patient.

You're gonna need to get over the "oh the poor children with cancer" argument and decide based on cost-benefit. It's how policy works. It's part of growing up. Don't be the 14 year old vegan girl who doesn't like the idea of animals killing each other. It will happen just like kids with cancer. I believe in a God and I hate him. Have you read the old testament? He's a bad dude.



And how many people did you spread covid to and kill during all those?

Yes people dying prematurely is a bad thing. So is keeping your kids out of school (very harmful), curfews (unproven to help), and mask mandates (help very very little, according to the head of the Dutch public health services, from NOS, the Dutch BBC)



That's a lot of dirty words for saying you disagree with his opinion. It should be easy to dismantle it now that you've said he's basically Ben Shapiro.

This describes a lot of people that agree with all the draconian shit, from your link:




Great post and I'm glad you reposted.

We really don't know if this near indefinite lockdown will prevent the 20% figure of reaching a 100%. There might as well be a new mutant somewhere in a furry little animal or in a human in a far off land that the current vaccines won't protect for. Do we go into another 2 year lockdown with violations of my constitutional rights 'till we develop a new vaccine?

It's true that health providers would be overwhelmed more than without a lockdown. But why are we not looking at deaths caused by the lockdown? We're all fatter, we exercise less, we're less happy, we're more stressed, we're addicted more, etc, etc. How much permanent damage does the disruption of social life do to our children? How much unhappiness and deaths will our right wing governments cause when they get to chop at your NHS, education or public parks because we've ballooned the debt?

My problem with wearing a mask is the same as my problem with Geert Wilders' proposed headscarf ban or the current burka ban. People should able to decide freely what they want to wear, especially when the cloth mask has a very, very, very small net positive effect. Being okay with a 2 year mask mandate is dangerously close to the dude that says: "Why should I care they're spying on me, I've got nothing to hide". Of course, a lot of people including the "you're a dumb trump supporting FB guy for questioning my believes" crowd, like @Sandikan @Pexbo think like that, which is a much bigger problem in our society than a virus that's 4 times as deadly as a bad seasonal flu. (don't be lazy @mod by pressing that delete button. Google it and see this figure is correct and IMHO very generous)

Even my sick children post means nothing to him. If they're going to die, they're going to die anyway. Why should little panda have to give up his drinking with mates.

It's a troll. A shill. Time to ignore.

 

[nimic]

My bad.

It's easy to forget when the actual disease was far less damaging to me (and 99% of people) than the government mandated stuff that has me struggling to earn a living or has me say the last farewell to a loved one through a phone held up by a nurse.

It was leaked by die Welt that the German government even hired a bunch of scientists to maximize the amount of fear porn and its effects so people would happily comply with the lockdown:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...enministerium-Wissenschaftler-einspannte.html

Let's hope mr Mod doesn't argue Die Welt isn't a reputable enough source for him or that it's "conspiratorial".

How easily people have bought into the fear porn is abundantly clear when half of the replies to my post (the stupid half) don't contain anything of substance. It's scary when you think they've accepted uprooting their entire life without even the most basic grasp on the subject, like how there's a 99% survival rate.

Yes, the survival rate is very high. But the fear isn't and has never been that everyone is going to get sick and die from Covid. It's that enough people are going to get it that it overloads the health care system. At that point people who need help for other reasons aren't going to get that help. Basically, what happened to Italy to begin with, and what is about to happen (or already happening) in Brazil.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

The article states that they hired experts to corroborate the statement that Germany couldn't handle another spike in cases therefore it wanted to make the public aware of the absolute worst situation that would occur if people ignored their advice. That's not "fear porn", it's called "reality".

You should stick to football discussion, preferably without being hostile to folk with whom you don't agree with.

They hired experts to maximise the fear response so there would be more compliance. If it's so harmless as you say why is there a leak and why was it a scandal?

If you're arguing the state is justified in working like this to maximize compliance we have a very different view on the relationship between the state and the plebs.

Lockdown is hard, yeah and I think everyone would rather we weren't in it. Wearing masks really isn't hard though and I couldn't care less about that rule - it has absolutely no effect on me whatsoever.

People are pretty well educated in this thread and definitely know there is around a 99% survival rate. If you've chosen that 1% of a population potentially dying is OK then that's your choice as is people who say that isn't OK. In the UK alone that would be 600,000 people and at that amount would affect most families.

There's also the people with longer term effects who don't die such as the 1,1000,000 in the UK in February. A lot of those people can't currently work and that is a serious issue in itself for the economy.

Anyway, we're not going to agree and that's normal so I'm done with this. People are looking at the same figures as you and deciding they have a different preference in how to handle it, that doesn't make them stupid.

What is a lot? The 1,1M includes people that have only lost their sense of smell and are otherwise fine. It's a fraction of the economic damage incurred by people unable to work or that are being subsized to not work (of which we will pay the bill eventually)

The mask mandate isn't easy to follow, which is is why half of the supermarket employees (young, healthy adults) wear their mask on the chin or in a few cases just on the mouth.

If you have to exert yourself or if you wear glasses it's a real pain in the ass.

Even my sick children post means nothing to him. If they're going to die, they're going to die anyway. Why should little panda have to give up his drinking with mates.

It's a troll. A shill. Time to ignore.

If thinking you save a kid with cancer helps you put on the muzzle each time, you really are a hero.

I'm happy your life has meaning now, but I wish it hadn't happened at the expense of my livelihood or my constitutional rights.

Yes, the survival rate is very high. But the fear isn't and has never been that everyone is going to get sick and die from Covid. It's that enough people are going to get it that it overloads the health care system. At that point people who need help for other reasons aren't going to get that help. Basically, what happened to Italy to begin with, and what is about to happen (or already happening) in Brazil.

I think for a lot people, (the sub 100 IQ person) it's fear of the virus as was the case for the majority of people initially (feb-march 2020?)

You obviously meant other people that need emergence care or respirators. But if you look at how many deadly diseases we've been diagnosing less of because of the lockdown, it could well exceed the excess deaths from lack of respirators. Especially when you account for deaths from a deterioration of quality of life as well.

We will eventually get some study with a number and I'm highly skeptical it will be worse than a Northern Italy situation. It's just that Covid is a boogeyman and not eating your veggies (yes, that kills people annually) is not.

At this point there's 2 kinds of people. The people that don't care, party + the conspiracy nuts and the people do their best to follow the basics (and invariably feck up somewhere). Making life more unreasonable for the latter with curfews and lockdowns has done very little for covid cases.

 

[Stanley Road]

no one that's reading this has done everything 100% by the book. Because it's not fecking possible.

I have and it is, its easy, what is not possible for you?

 

[golden_blunder]

I have and it is, its easy, what is not possible for you?

Replying

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Replying

hooray

 

[van der star]

Replying

Aw man, I had the time to post, for once, I was about to rip little panda to shreds, but then I saw he's no longer with us
If you're reading this LLP, I'll be more than happy to intubate you if and when the time comes.

 

[Buster15]

Enough is enough.
This government reckless spending of public money is now completely out of control.
They are now going to spend billions more on this crazy plan to give everyone 2 lateral flow tests every week.
And for what purpose.
They have blown over £34,000,000,000 on the scandalous privately run test, track and trace failure.
And now yet more waste on this latest idea.
And where are the lateral flow tests coming from; China.

We have been repeatedly told by Hancock and Johnson that vaccinations are the way out of this pandemic in the UK.
Fine. But with over 30 million people having had at least one vaccination and with the number of new cases and deaths dropping down, what on earth is the benefit of this latest extravaganza.
We all know that the lateral flow test is not that accurate.
I am just dumbfounded by the utter waste of yet more money going into the private sector.

This is our hard earned money they are spending. It has to stop and Boris has to be held accountable for this whole scandle.

 

[golden_blunder]

Aw man, I had the time to post, for once, I was about to rip little panda to shreds, but then I saw he's no longer with us
If you're reading this LLP, I'll be more than happy to intubate you if and when the time comes.

Sorry man but he was irritating quite a few with his lax dismissal of old and sick.
he will have to change his ID to something more suitable like a vulture

 

[Dumbstar]

"My constitutional rights" did it for me when justifying unnecessary deaths of sick children, or the elderly. Maybe I should do my own research.

I bet he owns many guns. 100% guaranteed.

 

[Wibble]

I have and it is, its easy, what is not possible for you?

Me too albeit much easier being in AU.

This guy's problem, like many of his ilk, is that he is self obsessed with zero concern for society in general. Why we permabanned him.

 

[golden_blunder]

"My constitutional rights" did it for me when justifying unnecessary deaths of sick children, or the elderly. Maybe I should do my own research.

I bet he owns many guns. 100% guaranteed.

100% the worst I’ve seen for a while. How he believes the drivel he comes out with, justifying 2.8million deaths like they’re nothing. I don’t say this often but he’s really a self obsessed cnut.

 

[decorativeed]

100% the worst I’ve seen for a while. How he believes the drivel he comes out with, justifying 2.8million deaths like they’re nothing. I don’t say this often but he’s really a self obsessed cnut.

Maybe it is our fault and not his after all, as we all get our facts and opinions from CNN, apparently. A channel watched religiously by so many in the UK.

 

[golden_blunder]

Maybe it is our fault and not his after all, as we all get our facts and opinions from CNN, apparently. A channel watched religiously by so many in the UK.

I genuinely don’t think I’ve ever watched more than 20 mins cnn in my life

 

[Stanley Road]

This guy's problem, like many of his ilk, is that he is self obsessed with zero concern for society in general. Why we permabanned him.

Oh i see, didn't know that

 

[jojojo]

I genuinely don’t think I’ve ever watched more than 20 mins cnn in my life

I did watch the US election results coming in on CNN - it was more or less hypnotic stuff for a couple of days. They had this really great set of interactive graphics for showing the results coming in across the swing states.

The pandemic has offered some fascinating insights into the conspiracy theorist world view. It's quite extraordinary what ends up going viral and somehow becomes a thing to be disproved rather than laughed at. Massive misuse of poor statistics and an extraordinary willingness to believe internet randoms and anecdotes about wonder drugs with no actual trial evidence as proof that government/big pharma/ Bill Gates are deliberately withholding cheap cures. Whereas any actual clinical trial data or hospital statistic is treated as fodder for the sheep.

It would be funny if some of it wasn't actually dangerous.

 

[Dumbstar]

100% the worst I’ve seen for a while. How he believes the drivel he comes out with, justifying 2.8million deaths like they’re nothing. I don’t say this often but he’s really a self obsessed cnut.

I fear he is no clueless individual but part of a larger conspiracy to dumb down the whole planet. It won't happen in our lifetimes but we are seeing the seeds being planted. I worry for my kids. All our kids.

 

[golden_blunder]

I fear he is no clueless individual but part of a larger conspiracy to dumb down the whole planet. It won't happen in our lifetimes but we are seeing the seeds being planted. I worry for my kids. All our kids.

Man you need to get out