NL. Deaths are around 80 per day, compared to 0 before the summer.
Positive tests no real change since the curfew, the lower figures could be weekend figures and the really low one was due to the snow storm, test centers closed.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Positive tests no real change since the curfew, the lower figures could be weekend figures and the really low one was due to the snow storm, test centers closed.
Well they do seem to be falling based on that. But very slowlyNL. Deaths are around 80 per day, compared to 0 before the summer.
Positive tests no real change since the curfew, the lower figures could be weekend figures and the really low one was due to the snow storm, test centers closed.
total overreaction holy feck
Without going into any detail- the unemployment, the mental health issues and the missed cancers all will do more harm than covid will
That's a very confident conclusion on some very complex, interconnected phenomena; have any convincing epidemiological data to support that?
What the feck is going on in the UK?
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Common sense and personal experience.
I don’t struggle with my mental health or I’m not suicidal or anything, but feck me this lockdown has me sitting here feeling like what is the point. Genuinely nothing to look forward to, a night out, a holiday- even getting to the gym or playing sport. Get up, work, go home, sit around, go to bed, get up and repeat.
I’d hate to be in the position of someone who had poor mental health prepandemic.
i think they are still planning on schools opening on the 8th of March and then shops late March mate.
Lockdown is difficult. Nobody would disagree with that. But let’s not forget that the alternative is people left to die on the street after road accidents because there isn’t a spare ambulance, or hospitals turning away seriously ill patients because they don’t have the beds or staff to treat them.
Portugal has had to send critically ill patients to other countries because their hospitals completely ran out of capacity. And that’s with a lockdown.
Taking all of that into account, I think it’s badly missing the point to talk about a year or two missing out on our usual fun as the real issue here.
For me it's about staying focused. I've found that increasingly difficult. I guess my brain thinks "you're at home". It's not all the time to be fair but there are always other things I can do at home - washing the dishes, tidying etc. On the flip side, some days I find it hard to switch off, and I'm working later and later as I don't have to leave the office and travel home.
Weekends haven't been too bad. We have a young daughter and actually, since this all began we've realised what's important. Instead of wasting days doing jobs and wandering around shops, since we now can't we're going out walking or just spending time together generally.
I think a few people with well paid jobs in big cities may get a shock. I don't know much about other sectors, but in the legal sector the difference in pay from London to the regions is amazing. A Solicitor a year or two qualified in London is earning what a senior Associate or Partner is earning in Newcastle, and that's at big firms with international clients who are doing the same job.
Do you guys think the big cities will see enough people moving out to cheaper cities or the countryside to see a knock on effect to rent and house prices?
I think its been said many times schools will be the priority and will open first.
Schools in France have been open since May 2020.
Rubbish. I'd also suspect the dead (if they could) and their families would disagree.
The countries that took the bold steps necessary to control it didn't have to stop normal medical procedures or testing for all but a small part of the last year. Calls to mental health support lines (as an indicator) went up when full lockdowns were required but down when they weren't (the majority of people the majority of the time) and suicides are down. Excess deaths are also downturn together flu deaths as well.
Economically some have suffered of course but the economy has taken a much smaller hit than most places as well.
All the things you mentioned are not because the virus was controlled but because it wasn't controlled well enough.
I work with a suicide prevention charity - and tbh there has not been any noticeable increase in callers...yes the calls are coming in and mentioned Covid - but its not anywhere near as extreme as is being made out. But then again, it might be that people aren't even reaching out for help.
Seperately, was on a call with a NHS MH Nurse a few weeks ago, and again, things are as steady as ever, no noticeable increase/decrease in demand for services.
Time will tell
Ah. Priorities.
DNR notices thought to have been given to patients with learning disabilities without consent. Shocking if true.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-covid-19-patients-with-learning-difficulties
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-covid-19-patients-with-learning-difficulties
That’s disgusting.
I don't believe this to be true. I'd be very surprised if it was to the extent its being reported. I'd be interested to hear findings more about it if its looked into.
"DNR notices" don't exist anymore in the UK. There used to be a red-bordered form denoting that but they've been replaced by advanced care plan (ACP) with a separate purple RESPECT form (Recommended Summary Plan for Emergency Care and Treatment) which codifies patient's wishes with regards to preferred place of care and ceiling of therapeutic intervention.
In the event patient were to lack capacity then discussion is had with family members. If somebody has lasting power of attorney for health reasons, their wish takes priority, otherwise its a designated next of kin whose input is sought out.
And that form has as a mandatory part filled in with regards to documenting what was discussed with family, where and when. And it is countersigned by a senior doctor (either registered GP or hospital consultant) with registration numbers.
Also to note that CPR is brutal. In elderly patients or those with co-morbidities, it is an undignified and cruel thing to do. The decision to do that or not do that, and also to offer ventilator or escalate to ITU is legally up to the medical team to decide. But we do take patients and families wishes on board as much as possible. Also DNACPR doesn't affect treatment or escalation of care. CPR also has a very poor survival in the context of a disease like COVID, it’s value is greatest following a heart attack, usually in a young-ish patient, but chances of surviving post-return of spontaneous circulation even in hospital setting is very low, something like 10%. And there is usually a lot of damage done due to hypoxic brain injury etc.
Learning disability in of itself in NOT a reason to say somebody shouldn't be resuscitated. Learning disability patients have hospital passports and care plans on how to ensure their hospital stay is as minimally traumatic as possible and so that they are holistically looked after in hospital and community. Separate from DNACPRs.
I've done DNACPR discussions with patients with learning disabilities but those who are really frail, elderly or with complex medical conditions and these consultations take hours, with feedback from patient, carers and families. It is an important discussion, reporting around it and understanding about importance aspects of it is pretty woeful in the UK.
There's more here
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4069
Sorry for sidetracking the thread, it is something pretty close to my heart for more than a few reasons.
Not sidetracks as it has been reported as a covid related issue. Lets hope it isn't as reported as it would be horrific if it is.
And I've had a little to do with CPR and it is indeed brutal. And as you say the chances of success are poor. In the 80's I was a dive instructor working in QLD and we had a guy walking past arrest on the beach and we started CPR almost soon as he keeled over. We even had oxygen resus gear to give us a bit of respite but despite our best efforts he died in the medical plane on the way to hospital (we were on a very remote island). The two of us were superfit but we were really struggling as we had to keep going for about 2 hours. I can still hear the broken ribs grinding together. And the other guy can't face drinking champagne any more as the guy had just had a champagne breakfast and threw it up while we were giving mouth to mouth.
Strangely the guy I worked with had a diving accident the year before and had to be resuscitated and air evacuated in the same way. Despite arresting 7 times he lived. Amazingly.
I also believe that the cure is worst than the disease.
The short and long-term negative impact of current public policies in terms of economic, social, and individual health is an elephant in the room.
At the international level, I would also mention the various direct/indirect consequences of over-indebtedness and a lack of economic activity on communities (poor countries reliant on tourism, children will never see school again, etc.).
The real issue is that the healthcare system has been neglected and badly run for a long time for different reasons.
The real solution would have been to really strengthen the healthcare system (means, efficiency, projects, etc.) given the fact the pandemic started one year ago...
To govern is to foresee
The healthcare system has been under-funded and under stress for decades. That’s a super tanker nobody can turn round in a single year. Even at a purely practical level surely you can see how impossible that is? Say we decide we need to double the number of intensive care physicians and ITU trained nurses. How do you magic these individuals out of thin air, in under 12 months? All at a time when the existing workforce - who would need to supervise trainees - is dealing with unprecedented stress and workload (and that’s with a lockdown)
Obviously, beefing up our services to cope with the next pandemic will have to be a priority in the years ahead. It was never going to help us avoid lockdowns with this pandemic though.
I don't disagree with you.
We are in a period of war against Covid and I don't know if all the possible emergency measures (retraining, redeployment of staff, requisitions) have been really considered to support current hospital staff in charge of Covid patients.
All valid points- I just find it disgraceful that the government could pull billions out of nowhere for all the various covid schemes- furlough etc, but the health service is still criminally underfunded.
Its all been done and we are still buggered.
I’ve had to do nursing and healthcare assistant modules to do those duties as well as my usual role.
All specialties have stopped outpatient clinics unless its cancer or suspected cancer. We’ve all had our training cancelled, exams cancelled. Doctors and nurses come out of retirement, medical students are helping on wards too.
In our last budget there was a huge increase to the HSE funding. Too little, too late though.
You also can’t have permanently increased capacity to cope with very rare events. It’s the same when Ireland grinds to a halt in the snow, while other countries cope fine. It doesn’t make economic sense to invest in tonnes of snowploughs and gritters and hire permanent employees to drive them when we only get heavy snow once a decade. Same logic applies to ITU beds/staff.
I do agree that our health service should have been better funded to begin with. And it it was, we’d have been able to get away with a less strict lockdown. The difference would be fairly minimal though. Exponential growth means that no matter how well resourced the health service it can get overwhelmed scarily quickly if the virus is completely unchecked. Hence even health services with much better funding than ours also hit the wall.
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No idea mate
September
The new Italian government is getting off to a good start.
Ski slopes were supposed to reopen tomorrow morning in low infection areas, ordinance was signed over the last week to set the rules and allow it to go ahead. Resorts stocked up and prepared for the reopening, and people bought lift passes and hotel rooms. At 7pm this evening the government changed its mind and has decided they cant open until at least March, and is now threatening another nationwide lockdown after weeks of falling case numbers.
To say people are annoyed is an understatement. Nobody is going to listen to a word they say if they keep it up.
Ski slopes were supposed to reopen tomorrow morning in low infection areas, ordinance was signed over the last week to set the rules and allow it to go ahead. Resorts stocked up and prepared for the reopening, and people bought lift passes and hotel rooms. At 7pm this evening the government changed its mind and has decided they cant open until at least March, and is now threatening another nationwide lockdown after weeks of falling case numbers.
To say people are annoyed is an understatement. Nobody is going to listen to a word they say if they keep it up.
I think it depends on how long this actually lasts. A medium-term impact (i.e. 3-5 years) of constant lockdowns, WFH etc., and I think prices will drop. However, if all of this is over in the next year, most people will go back to normal.
My question I guess is loaded around the assumption that many firms will go to a wfh model where maybe you only have to go into the office once a week or so
Ya, it's a tough one. I think it's going to be an option for some, but overall I don't think it will dramatically reduce house prices - there will always be the demand to live in the fanciest places.
The fanciest places yet, but not necesssarily the places that aren't fancy at all, but are 30-45mins from London for eg.
Probably depends on the dynamics of your team as well.
My current team are spaced over the country, whereas my job before was all in the same office.
Latter makes more sense to get back to regular office time than the former.
Probably also depends on whether your company own or lease the offices.
I've just read that new data has shown that nearly 18% of new cases of Covid in Italy are now the UK variant, and I think this may have caused a bit of a panic. I don't know why they've waited until today.
edit - I don't think our cases are falling fast enough really. We've had higher numbers than the UK for a couple of days. I think the slow roll-out of the vaccines isn't helping.
They started opening on 11 May 2020. Opened fully 22 June 2020 and been open ever since except where individual schools were shut because of Covid.
Have one grandson in collège and one in lycée and they haven't missed a day since June 22 (apart from school holidays of course)
Australia beginning to discuss reducing the already small number of Australian's allowed to return to limit the potential for the new more infectious variants from getting lose in the community until we have significant vaccination. It could be that almost all are locked out barring compassionate grounds. There is also pressure to improve quarantine procedures and all far more back. We will see I guess.
That's the problem with it, after having approved the reopening four days ago. The governors of the Northern regions are going mad.
Personally I'm starting to find it all a bit testing. I cant ski on a mountainside, go to the gym, or play football outdoors. But I can go and sit inside in a bar with 50 other people...