SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Fluctuation0161]

Personally I think opening shops for Christmas and opening up the household mixing was always going to lead to a spike that required a lockdown in January, and it was a stupid trade-off for the government to make and the public to take up. Short-term gain for long-term pain is rarely a good strategy.

It's undoubtedly true though that the new strain has had an impact, and has significantly changed their plans. Without the new strain we may have repeated the "circuit-breaker" from November: stabilise cases across the country and bring the worst areas back into levels the government think are manageable. I don't think they would have considered another lockdown for an indefinite period to even be a last resort if it wasn't for this variant.

Didn't the new UK variant mutate in the conditions created by this government's early lax policies? High numbers = more chance of a mutated strain.

Many areas around London were put in tier 2 when tier 3 should've applied. The regional lockdown was a farce to appease the anti lockdown mps in the Tory party.

 

[Buster15]

The Prime Minister of Great Britain ladies and gentlemen...

He did not even try to explain; because he cannot explain.
Just 100% bullsh1t. Same as normal.

 

[acnumber9]

I didn’t realise that they’re planning to reopen secondary schools (only keeping primary schools closed) in the UK. That seems absolutely mad.

Neither did I. It seems absolutely insane to me but I’d be surprised if it actually happened. I’m not sure that is accurate. It’s not in any other news that I’ve seen.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can they not just make kids at all levels repeat the year so no one misses out?
I’m sure someone will tell me why that’s a bad idea

It would feck up third level education, who rely on the schools to provide them with new students each year. And you can’t make all third level students repeat a year because that would decimate the work force (no junior doctors etc)

 

[golden_blunder]

For these decisions there is a lot of admin and red tape involved. Even though it should be, it isn't simple enough because anyone along the way can pop up and say they disagree with it. You have to get permission from various departments and then a year later Boris implements it for the year after.

Just seems to me that it would be fair to all the kids and solve some of the concerns

 

[Relevated]

Covid is so mad. It messes up things at various levels. I wonder how many deaths we'd have been if we carried on as normal with no restrictions

 

[golden_blunder]

It would feck up third level education, who rely on the schools to provide them with new students each year. And you can’t make all third level students repeat a year because that would decimate the work force (no junior doctors etc)

Could third level students not be stretched out by adding another year of work experience?

 

[F-Red]

Didn't the new UK variant mutate in the conditions created by this government's early lax policies? High numbers = more chance of a mutated strain.

Many areas around London were put in tier 2 when tier 3 should've applied. The regional lockdown was a farce to appease the anti lockdown mps in the Tory party.

I don't think a virus has a political leaning, as much as you would like it to.

 

[ha_rooney]

I didn’t realise that they’re planning to reopen secondary schools (only keeping primary schools closed) in the UK. That seems absolutely mad.

Neither did I. It seems absolutely insane to me but I’d be surprised if it actually happened. I’m not sure that is accurate. It’s not in any other news that I’ve seen.

That article is before his announcement yesterday. All schools are closed for all kids except children of key workers & the most vulnerable

 

[golden_blunder]

Covid is so mad. It messes up things at various levels. I wonder how many deaths we'd have been if we carried on as normal with no restrictions

I think I saw something about that earlier, an estimate around 350k

 

[JPRouve]

The Prime Minister of Great Britain ladies and gentlemen...

To be honest I feel for him. Years ago I was supposed to read Robinson Crusoe and do a presentation, boy did I struggle during that presentation.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Could third level students not be stretched out by adding another year of work experience?

But we need the final year students to graduate as planned. Otherwise that blows a hole in our workforce next year.

 

[acnumber9]

That article is before his announcement yesterday. All schools are closed for all kids except children of key workers & the most vulnerable

Ah, that’s makes sense.

 

[Acole9]

Dominic Raab would take over I think. Could be wrong.

Oh god, think I'd rather have Gove and that's saying something!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So latest analysis in Ireland has only 20% of samples as the “UK variant”. In a way, I find that reassuring. It shows that you can have an astronomical surge (quickest increase in cases per 100k in Europe, I think?) without being fuelled primarily by increased transmissibility of the virus.

Which means it’s still possible that the surge (in Ireland and the UK) is mainly driven by non-virus factors and the measures that worked once can work again.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

 

[Pexbo]

Just had a notification on the NHS app that I have to isolate for 4 days. Does that mean someone tested positive 6 days ago and only just entered the result?

 

[jojojo]

Just had a notification on the NHS app that I have to isolate for 4 days. Does that mean someone tested positive 6 days ago and only just entered the result?

More likely that it's somebody who last met you 6 days ago. Test/trace asks for contacts from 2 days before symptoms through to when the person isolated.

Their test request could easily be 4 days ago. test 2 days ago, result today.

 

[Pexbo]

More likely that it's somebody who last met you 6 days ago. Test/trace asks for contacts from 2 days before symptoms through to when the person isolated.

Their test request could easily be 4 days ago. test 2 days ago, result today.

Hmm I guess that could make sense then. Cheers

 

[Brwned]

USA are looking at halving the Moderna dosage now as well.

Very different situation, surely?

They want to use a dosage that was tested in a phase 2 trial, based on data on the immune response that dosage generates under those specific circumstances. And the change in dosing would be based on conducting a follow-up study to test their hypotheses to get specific approval from the regulator.

In order to provide the F.D.A. with the kind of data it would need to approve a change in dosing, scientists must first study blood samples from patients who participated in the Phase III trial to determine precisely what immune response correlates with protection against Covid-19.

Then, Dr. Mascola said, researchers would have to either look back at patients from the Phase II trial, or conduct a new one, to demonstrate that patients who received the 50 milligram dose developed the threshold immune response. If the results looked promising, he said, “all this then needs to be put together as a data package for review and discussion with F.D.A.”

The comparison to Pfizer would be if the UK decided to use a 10μg dose rather than a 30μg dose, which they tested in phase II as well. They're not doing that because the evidence suggests it wouldn't be very effective.

The UK's decision to delay dosing is not at all equivalent because the same evidence doesn't exist. They didn't experiment with different intervals and they aren't conducting a validation study for their hypothesis. They're just running a live trial on the population on the assumption their hypothesis is correct, and if it isn't, the downsides that will follow are thought to be smaller than the current risk of not doing it. It is an act of desperation, I'm not sure why you keep trying to sugar coat it with speculation that it must be based on something real. They can't invent the data so they have to go with their best guess. It doesn't change the fact it's a guess.

 

[F-Red]

Very different situation, surely?

Not in the context of elongating supply, which is why I mentioned it.

 

[golden_blunder]

My father in law has received a date/confirmation that he will receive his second injection soon. He’s 82

 

[mitChley]

Just had a notification on the NHS app that I have to isolate for 4 days. Does that mean someone tested positive 6 days ago and only just entered the result?

I believe so, I had the same Christmas week but it was for only three days.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I don't think a virus has a political leaning, as much as you would like it to.

Strange post from you.

For the reasons clearly outlined in my post. Politics and government decisions have had a massive impact on how each country has dealt with the virus.

Every single action we can take to reduce spread of the virus is made at a political level. Maybe you need to look at how the UK is doing in comparison with other European countries...

 

[Anustart89]

Strange post from you.

For the reasons clearly outlined in my post. Politics and government decisions have had a massive impact on how each country has dealt with the virus.

Every single action we can take to reduce spread of the virus is made at a political level. Maybe you need to look at how the UK is doing in comparison with other European countries...

Not sure what point you're making. Are you suggesting that right-leaning governments are less likely to put restrictions in than left-of-centre governments? Genuine question.

Sweden is doing absolutely terrible with the left-leaning government still refusing to put in any meaningful restrictions with health services already overwhelmed. After nine months, they're finally recommending masks for commuters during peak hours as of Thursday.

 

[massi83]

Not sure what point you're making. Are you suggesting that right-leaning governments are less likely to put restrictions in than left-of-centre governments? Genuine question.

Sweden is doing absolutely terrible with the left-leaning government still refusing to put in any meaningful restrictions with health services already overwhelmed. After nine months, they're finally recommending masks for commuters during peak hours as of Thursday.

That's because of Tegnell not the government.

 

[finneh]

Strange post from you.

For the reasons clearly outlined in my post. Politics and government decisions have had a massive impact on how each country has dealt with the virus.

Every single action we can take to reduce spread of the virus is made at a political level. Maybe you need to look at how the UK is doing in comparison with other European countries...

Not as poorly as you'd think:

Spoiler: Image 1

Spoiler: Image 2

Spoiler: Image 3

Spoiler: Image 4

 

[F-Red]

Strange post from you.

For the reasons clearly outlined in my post. Politics and government decisions have had a massive impact on how each country has dealt with the virus.

Every single action we can take to reduce spread of the virus is made at a political level. Maybe you need to look at how the UK is doing in comparison with other European countries...

The death and infection rate has everything to do with policy. A virus mutating has nothing to do with policy. Your post was inferring that the mutation is down to politics, which it isn't.

 

[arnie_ni]

NI writing their “stay at home” order into law so that it can be enforced

Have you seen any clarification on the "work form home unless you can't work from home"?

I work in an accountants with the tax deadline at the end of the month and there's no chance we are allowed to work from home or we won't get all the work done.

Does that qualify as can't work from home?

 

[golden_blunder]

Have you seen any clarification on the "work form home unless you can't work from home"?

I work in an accountants with the tax deadline at the end of the month and there's no chance we are allowed to work from home or we won't get all the work done.

Does that qualify as can't work from home?

Sorry no idea, just a snippet I heard earlier

 

[T00lsh3d]

I’m interested to hear opinions on this.

I work for a manufacturing company in the offices. It’s impossible for the factory workers to WFH but easy for the office staff, we’ve done it for months on end or week on/week off over the past year so there’s no question on viability. The CEO announced today that all staff were expected to be on site because it was a ‘safe site’, we’ve put some hand sanitizer stations around and spaced the desks out basically. People also get temp checked on arrival.
I’m a bit startled by the insistence to work on site. It’s strange because I actually prefer going into the office to work but I can’t help thinking if there’s an outbreak in the offices and people get seriously ill that the company’s on some tricky legal footing for forcing people in.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’m interested to hear opinions on this.

I work for a manufacturing company in the offices. It’s impossible for the factory workers to WFH but easy for the office staff, we’ve done it for months on end or week on/week off over the past year so there’s no question on viability. The CEO announced today that all staff were expected to be on site because it was a ‘safe site’, we’ve put some hand sanitizer stations around and spaced the desks out basically. People also get temp checked on arrival.
I’m a bit startled by the insistence to work on site. It’s strange because I actually prefer going into the office to work but I can’t help thinking if there’s an outbreak in the offices and people get seriously ill that the company’s on some tricky legal footing for forcing people in.

If nothing else, it’s unbelievably strange timing to announce a move back into the office having functioned ok working from home. What is he/she thinking?!?

 

[Anustart89]

That's because of Tegnell not the government.

The government's been very happy to let Tegnell take the lead though instead of taking responsibility themselves.

 

[T00lsh3d]

If nothing else, it’s unbelievably strange timing to announce a move back into the office having functioned ok working from home. What is he/she thinking?!?

It’s bizarre. We’ve been on a week in/week out basis (though I’ve been in most of the time) for a while. I get that whilst the official threat level is low-ish. But that changes when the order is to stay at home. Seems crazy timing....the only thing I can think of is that it causes less discontent in the factory if the offices are dragged in as well

 

[F-Red]

I’m interested to hear opinions on this.

I work for a manufacturing company in the offices. It’s impossible for the factory workers to WFH but easy for the office staff, we’ve done it for months on end or week on/week off over the past year so there’s no question on viability. The CEO announced today that all staff were expected to be on site because it was a ‘safe site’, we’ve put some hand sanitizer stations around and spaced the desks out basically. People also get temp checked on arrival.
I’m a bit startled by the insistence to work on site. It’s strange because I actually prefer going into the office to work but I can’t help thinking if there’s an outbreak in the offices and people get seriously ill that the company’s on some tricky legal footing for forcing people in.

Odd considering the message is very clear to work from home if you can. What has your line manager said (if you don't report into the CEO)?

 

[Relevated]

Does anyone believe covid has ruined a whole generation? I think we, who lived through the outbreak, will be affected until the end of our lives. Be it mentally, physically or economically. I think our lives ended in 2019, the way we once liked them. Previously id laugh it off, but I now do truly believe that covid has changed the world forever.

 

[Relevated]

I’m interested to hear opinions on this.

I work for a manufacturing company in the offices. It’s impossible for the factory workers to WFH but easy for the office staff, we’ve done it for months on end or week on/week off over the past year so there’s no question on viability. The CEO announced today that all staff were expected to be on site because it was a ‘safe site’, we’ve put some hand sanitizer stations around and spaced the desks out basically. People also get temp checked on arrival.
I’m a bit startled by the insistence to work on site. It’s strange because I actually prefer going into the office to work but I can’t help thinking if there’s an outbreak in the offices and people get seriously ill that the company’s on some tricky legal footing for forcing people in.

This is the kind of thing that is making the virus worse. We can only blame Boris so much, but its this mentality that really set us back recently.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Does anyone believe covid has ruined a whole generation? I think we, who lived through the outbreak, will be affected until the end of our lives. Be it mentally, physically or economically. I think our lives ended in 2019, the way we once liked them. Previously id laugh it off, but I now do truly believe that covid has changed the world forever.

Ruined? No. Long-term negative effects? Yes, and disproportionately impacting the poor.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Odd considering the message is very clear to work from home if you can. What has your line manager said (if you don't report into the CEO)?

My line manager, who’s pretty senior himself and normally tows the party line, is equally as bemused.

 

[VorZakone]

Does anyone believe covid has ruined a whole generation? I think we, who lived through the outbreak, will be affected until the end of our lives. Be it mentally, physically or economically. I think our lives ended in 2019, the way we once liked them. Previously id laugh it off, but I now do truly believe that covid has changed the world forever.

I disagree.

My optimism comes from the vaccins. It may take a while to get rid of Covid and its consequences but affected until the end of our lives? I don't think so.