SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

acnumber9 said:
Due to years of under funding by the Government.
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Sorry mate but I have to disagree here and imo that's a cheap and lazy statement to make.
Early on in 'lockdown' the government were at pains to stress the public were going to be responsible in a way to self police their own behaviour. To be treated like adults if you were. When videos circulated fir example of police moving on a woman sat on a park bench for 'exercise' the media were on it in a flash and it caused negative opinion and anger.
It would be easy for the police to hand out enforcement notices in large numbers with relatively little resources if that was the political will, but it seems to be only large gatherings that have been targeted so far.
How do you suggest the police enforce the breaches of lockdown or the tier system by the way?
I'm from York which is currently in a tier 2 area(not for long, our rates are today far higher than any of our tier 3 areas). Tonight I drove through York Centre and it was packed, packed with tourists, and packed with coach tours from Leeds. If this is representative of the rest of the UK, even 10 times the amount of police would not be able to cope with everyone.
I walked the dog around our area last night and the amount of gatherings in people's front rooms was unbelievable, honestly it's shocking. It's like a horror film unfolding in slow mo. The government have fecked up in lots of ways through this ( as have most governments), but underfunding the police is not one of them.
If I'm honest the main failing in almost every instance in my opinion is the general public and lack of common sense. Those poor people in care homes are a notible exception.
There are pages and pages of examples through this thread of people bending the rules, stretching them and downright ignoring them, people going on un needed holidays and while there giving zero fecks and when coming back not isolating.
This whole episode has been thus far an interesting yet terrifying example of human nature and blame culture.
Its the government's fault, its china's fault, why can't I do such and such when they can, etc etc.
Not having a rant at you in particular by the way, but police underfunding has feck all to do with this thread.
 
Can anyone please tell me how so many people under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
 
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NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how about 90% of Brits under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
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This is what i'm noticing aswell.

Sorry to hijack your post - but I am coming across more people who believe the whole thing is a hoax...an attempt to depopulate humanity and a bill gates master scheme in order to profit from a vaccine.

Could anyone share some links /material where I can educate myself more and shut down some r-tards who happen to be good friends of mine?
 
NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how about 90% of Brits under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
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What’s the source for that stat?
 
Rado_N said:
What’s the source for that stat?
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I should clarify: no source, it’s not a stat. It’s just the approximate proportion of people I’ve seen saying it compared to those who haven’t. I’ve edited the original post.

Have you noticed any different? That would be a breath of fresh air to be honest.
 
NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how about 90% of Brits under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
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How big is that sample size?
 
NYAS said:
I should clarify: no source, it’s not a stat. It’s just the approximate proportion of people I’ve seen saying it compared to those who haven’t.

Have you noticed any different? That would be a breath of fresh air to be honest.
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Oh you're just chatting out your arse. Common theme in this thread.


I'm under 35, as is the vast majority of my friends and not one of my closer friends whom I've discussed the vaccine think that.

Think you're thinking of a loud minority.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
How big is that sample size?
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I’ve edited my post to clarify that it isn’t an actual statistic but was based on my anecdotal observation. Should have put that in before I posted it!

But if you’re asking me how many people I’ve seen saying that I would say about 15/20 compared to 2 people who have said they can’t wait to finally take the vaccine.
 
NYAS said:
I should clarify: no source, it’s not a stat. It’s just the approximate proportion of people I’ve seen saying it compared to those who haven’t. I’ve edited the original post.

Have you noticed any different? That would be a breath of fresh air to be honest.
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:lol:

You probably need to hang out with more sensible people.
 
NYAS said:
I should clarify: no source, it’s not a stat. It’s just the approximate proportion of people I’ve seen saying it compared to those who haven’t. I’ve edited the original post.

Have you noticed any different? That would be a breath of fresh air to be honest.
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I’ve literally never heard of it until you just posted that nonsense.
 
I’ve removed that ‘90%’ in my post as I didn’t want more people thinking it was official data. Apologies, I should have framed it differently. It is completely anecdotal.
 
worldgonemad said:
Sorry mate but I have to disagree here and imo that's a cheap and lazy statement to make.
Early on in 'lockdown' the government were at pains to stress the public were going to be responsible in a way to self police their own behaviour. To be treated like adults if you were. When videos circulated fir example of police moving on a woman sat on a park bench for 'exercise' the media were on it in a flash and it caused negative opinion and anger.
It would be easy for the police to hand out enforcement notices in large numbers with relatively little resources if that was the political will, but it seems to be only large gatherings that have been targeted so far.
How do you suggest the police enforce the breaches of lockdown or the tier system by the way?
I'm from York which is currently in a tier 2 area(not for long, our rates are today far higher than any of our tier 3 areas). Tonight I drove through York Centre and it was packed, packed with tourists, and packed with coach tours from Leeds. If this is representative of the rest of the UK, even 10 times the amount of police would not be able to cope with everyone.
I walked the dog around our area last night and the amount of gatherings in people's front rooms was unbelievable, honestly it's shocking. It's like a horror film unfolding in slow mo. The government have fecked up in lots of ways through this ( as have most governments), but underfunding the police is not one of them.
If I'm honest the main failing in almost every instance in my opinion is the general public and lack of common sense. Those poor people in care homes are a notible exception.
There are pages and pages of examples through this thread of people bending the rules, stretching them and downright ignoring them, people going on un needed holidays and while there giving zero fecks and when coming back not isolating.
This whole episode has been thus far an interesting yet terrifying example of human nature and blame culture.
Its the government's fault, its china's fault, why can't I do such and such when they can, etc etc.
Not having a rant at you in particular by the way, but police underfunding has feck all to do with this thread.
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The post you are replying to suggested that police forces in the UK have been underfunded, thus making it more challenging for forces to effectively monitor public interaction on a large scale. This is true. The Tories ensured that we had 20,000 fewer officers than we did when they entered office in 2010. Only recently have numbers started to increase again.

You’ve just gone off and ranted about something entirely unrelated.
 
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worldgonemad said:
Sorry mate but I have to disagree here and imo that's a cheap and lazy statement to make.
Early on in 'lockdown' the government were at pains to stress the public were going to be responsible in a way to self police their own behaviour. To be treated like adults if you were. When videos circulated fir example of police moving on a woman sat on a park bench for 'exercise' the media were on it in a flash and it caused negative opinion and anger.
It would be easy for the police to hand out enforcement notices in large numbers with relatively little resources if that was the political will, but it seems to be only large gatherings that have been targeted so far.
How do you suggest the police enforce the breaches of lockdown or the tier system by the way?
I'm from York which is currently in a tier 2 area(not for long, our rates are today far higher than any of our tier 3 areas). Tonight I drove through York Centre and it was packed, packed with tourists, and packed with coach tours from Leeds. If this is representative of the rest of the UK, even 10 times the amount of police would not be able to cope with everyone.
I walked the dog around our area last night and the amount of gatherings in people's front rooms was unbelievable, honestly it's shocking. It's like a horror film unfolding in slow mo. The government have fecked up in lots of ways through this ( as have most governments), but underfunding the police is not one of them.
If I'm honest the main failing in almost every instance in my opinion is the general public and lack of common sense. Those poor people in care homes are a notible exception.
There are pages and pages of examples through this thread of people bending the rules, stretching them and downright ignoring them, people going on un needed holidays and while there giving zero fecks and when coming back not isolating.
This whole episode has been thus far an interesting yet terrifying example of human nature and blame culture.
Its the government's fault, its china's fault, why can't I do such and such when they can, etc etc.
Not having a rant at you in particular by the way, but police underfunding has feck all to do with this thread.
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I’m not really making the argument that there is a lot the police can do. Merely pointing out that if it’s due to lack of numbers there’s only one place to point the finger of blame for that too.

Personally I think the Government needs to decide on a lockdown akin to that in March and tell people what are realistic goal is and how we can achieve it. And actually deliver on what they promise. It’s no surprise that people won’t buy into what they say when they lie, shift responsibility, over promise and under deliver. And a big part of any lockdown being a success will be making sure they are as efficient as they can be with the vaccine deployment.

On the subject of policing all they can do is issue heavy fines for those not following the laws established.
 
On a more positive note, I shopped within a busy city centre yesterday and compliance with the regulations was generally fantastic. It usually is, whether I am shopping in the supermarket, interacting with parents of the pupils I teach, or simply walking along a narrow path: people regularly demonstrate good manners and behave in a civilised way by allowing others past.

In truth, it’s a little tedious having to read (and listen to elsewhere) the same monotonous dribble re. widespread lack of compliance. Hear me out. Some people have an irritating (and frankly unhealthy) habit of using a handful of incidents they disapprove of as a stick to beat an entire populace with. You’re going to get the odd idiot. You’re going to get quite a few. But unless you’re living in Mordor, you should be able to pull your head out of your own arse to realise that most people are inherently decent and are trying hard (in their own awkward way) to follow the guidance as best as possible. Just look around and highlight the overwhelming number of good folk, for goodness sake. And yes, some people are going to make mistakes. It happens. If you spend your entire day looking for reasons to be angry then you’re probably going to feel that way: perhaps this might ring a few bells for some of the resident oddball ‘I-hope-they-become-seriously-unwell’ types we encounter throughout these threads...
 
Kag said:
On a more positive note, I shopped within a busy city centre yesterday and compliance with the regulations was generally fantastic. It usually is, whether I am shopping in the supermarket, interacting with parents of the pupils I teach, or simply walking along a narrow path: people regularly demonstrate good manners and behave in a civilised way by allowing others past.

In truth, it’s a little tedious having to read (and listen to elsewhere) the same monotonous dribble re. widespread lack of compliance. Hear me out. Some people have an irritating (and frankly unhealthy) habit of using a handful of incidents they disapprove of as a stick to beat an entire populace with. You’re going to get the odd idiot. You’re going to get quite a few. But unless you’re living in Mordor, you should be able to pull your head out of your own arse to realise that most people are inherently decent and are trying hard (in their own awkward way) to follow the guidance as best as possible. Just look around and highlight the overwhelming number of good folk, for goodness sake. And yes, some people are going to make mistakes. It happens. If you spend your entire day looking for reasons to be angry then you’re probably going to feel that way: perhaps this might ring a few bells for some of the resident oddball ‘I-hope-they-become-seriously-unwell’ types we encounter throughout these threads...
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This is pretty much what I am thinking just you had a better way of saying it.
 
Kag said:
On a more positive note, I shopped within a busy city centre yesterday and compliance with the regulations was generally fantastic. It usually is, whether I am shopping in the supermarket, interacting with parents of the pupils I teach, or simply walking along a narrow path: people regularly demonstrate good manners and behave in a civilised way by allowing others past.

In truth, it’s a little tedious having to read (and listen to elsewhere) the same monotonous dribble re. widespread lack of compliance. Hear me out. Some people have an irritating (and frankly unhealthy) habit of using a handful of incidents they disapprove of as a stick to beat an entire populace with. You’re going to get the odd idiot. You’re going to get quite a few. But unless you’re living in Mordor, you should be able to pull your head out of your own arse to realise that most people are inherently decent and are trying hard (in their own awkward way) to follow the guidance as best as possible. Just look around and highlight the overwhelming number of good folk, for goodness sake. And yes, some people are going to make mistakes. It happens. If you spend your entire day looking for reasons to be angry then you’re probably going to feel that way: perhaps this might ring a few bells for some of the resident oddball ‘I-hope-they-become-seriously-unwell’ types we encounter throughout these threads...
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Couldn't have put it better myself, infact I'll say there's a lot more people going too far the other way compared to that way.

Both ofcourse are in the minority however.
 
acnumber9 said:
Personally I think the Government needs to decide on a lockdown akin to that in March
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This I agree wholeheartedly with, seems to be only a matter of time.


Kag said:
On a more positive note, I shopped within a busy city centre yesterday and compliance with the regulations was generally fantastic. It usually is, whether I am shopping in the supermarket, interacting with parents of the pupils I teach, or simply walking along a narrow path: people regularly demonstrate good manners and behave in a civilised way by allowing others past.

In truth, it’s a little tedious having to read (and listen to elsewhere) the same monotonous dribble re. widespread lack of compliance. Hear me out. Some people have an irritating (and frankly unhealthy) habit of using a handful of incidents they disapprove of as a stick to beat an entire populace with. You’re going to get the odd idiot. You’re going to get quite a few. But unless you’re living in Mordor, you should be able to pull your head out of your own arse to realise that most people are inherently decent and are trying hard (in their own awkward way) to follow the guidance as best as possible. Just look around and highlight the overwhelming number of good folk, for goodness sake. And yes, some people are going to make mistakes. It happens. If you spend your entire day looking for reasons to be angry then you’re probably going to feel that way: perhaps this might ring a few bells for some of the resident oddball ‘I-hope-they-become-seriously-unwell’ types we encounter throughout these threads...
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Also Kag I on the whole agree with what you are saying here, I will add though that fatigue is setting in with some people and more and more seem to be dropping their guard and/or blurring the lines on what is allowed or not
 
Only way to see people buying into a lockdown like before is if they give it a clear goal other than R rate coming down.

If they said they are locking down for 3 weeks/month to vaccinate around the clock people would be on board.

Even if it is right thing to do, people can't mentally and financially keep yo-yoing cos the government has no clear plan
 
NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how so many people under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
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Multiple ideas/rumour and partly understood stories interacting maybe? I don't know what has happened with your particular circle of contacts but I may know a bit of the backstory.

Someone (I've no idea of the actual originator or their qualifications) a couple of months back came up with graphics showing similarities between the targeted spike protein and some crucial part of the biochemistry that produces stable placenta and allows egg implantation.

They asked, will the vaccinated body start attacking those proteins as well? Nice professional looking animated graphics - and a question that had no 100% guaranteed answer, except in terms of computer simulations, animal experiments and Petri dish tests. We know a bit more now because some of the women on the Pfizer trial became pregnant during it - so those women will be monitored through their pregnancy. As indeed will any woman becoming pregnant having taken the vaccine

Then there are the trials themselves. It's generally viewed as unethical to test drugs on pregnant women. Clinical trials are just that - trials to see if it works and it's safe. Before testing on pregnant women (and those planning to become pregnant soon after) it's generally accepted that you need to know (as far as possible) what happens to the woman, the pregnancy and the baby. Theoretically, according to the scientists involved there seems to be minimal risk - but theory and minimal aren't really good enough here.

Animal trials usually provide some of this data, but those include developmental studies on the offspring (and therefore a couple of years) to complete. Chances are - we'll have some human data before those trials are complete/published because some women will be pregnant or will get pregnant soon after they take it.

Consequently, the vaccine makers caution that the drugs were not tested on pregnant women or those planning to become pregnant immediately (within a month or two) after taking them. In the UK, that has led to an "advise against" for pregnant women. In the US the FDA have simply labelled their use as "untested".

Oddly enough - this caution, rather than being seen as responsible science and appropriate trial ethics, is seen as some kind of admission of guilt by government/big pharma that the vaccines are dangerous. Big pharma trying to dodge its liabilities.

Plus, of course in FB antivax land, Bill Gates is associated with birth control and vaccines campaigns. Therefore all vaccines = population control (of the eugenic variety)
 
NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how so many people under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
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As if my last answer wasn't long enough... Inevitably, this morning I saw some old rumours about vaccines and sperm quality reappear. Again they come down to people seeing what I'd view as scientific "due diligence" as a reason to panic.

Pfizer amongst others, on Phase 3 trials, includes a standard "use contraception for 30 days" post vaccination declaration for men. Some trials have been done and others are being done with small groups of men to check sperm quantity/quality/motility before and after the vaccine, and ongoing monitoring - not because they think there's a problem, because they need to test even when they think there isn't one.

Further back in the timelines, I've found this one from the Reuters fact check team:
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-covid-vaccine-causing-infer-idUSKBN25H20G that identifies some of the original sources of the rumours.

Incidentally, it's worth noting that Covid does impact male fertility:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/victor...erm-count-and-quality-in-recovering-patients/
at least temporarily (which is all we know about right now) - but then so do quite a few other serious illnesses.
 
Carolina Red said:
My wife got her first dose of the vaccine today. Can’t tell you how proud I am of her and what she’s done this year. Hopefully this will keep her safe.
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Thats great news mate, she is a proper superstar
calodo2003 said:
Where’s here? UK?

If there’s one thing that my country doesn’t lack is the size of our police ranks. We could loan you thousands.
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Cant see there being too many volunteers when they find out they don't get to bring their guns
 
NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how so many people under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
Click to expand...

To be honest, it was one of my first instinctive thoughts/concerns. When I discussed the vaccine in general with friends they were concerned too.

It's not to do with a video or the belief there is a plan to reduce the world's population. It seems to be a normal reaction for many who hope to have kids in a few years
 
LARulz said:
To be honest, it was one of my first instinctive thoughts/concerns. When I discussed the vaccine in general with friends they were concerned too.

It's not to do with a video or the belief there is a plan to reduce the world's population. It seems to be a normal reaction for many who hope to have kids in a few years
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The idea a bunch of right wing governments have a plan to reduce the worlds population is laughable. Especially when the suggestion is that they will try to do so by throttling the birth rates. We have an ageing population already and it’s a major problem, not only in social terms but economic ones too.

A vaccine being the answer to this issue is so daft. Letting this virus ravage the elders of this world and making alcohol and viagra free is the real fix.
 
Does anyone else follow Red Issue on Twitter? feck me, they’re fecking thick as chips on this matter.
 
LARulz said:
To be honest, it was one of my first instinctive thoughts/concerns. When I discussed the vaccine in general with friends they were concerned too.

It's not to do with a video or the belief there is a plan to reduce the world's population. It seems to be a normal reaction for many who hope to have kids in a few years
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Out of interest, do you and your friends discuss/worry about the effect of catching covid on future fertility? We’re still learning about long term effects of covid but we already know it has immediate negative effects on male fertility and the virus that causes mumps can have similar, permanent, effects.

I do understand people being nervous about taking a recently developed vaccine, which we will learn more about in the months/years ahead. But we already know a lot about the vaccine after rigorous testing during its development. And this testing has shown it to be extremely safe.

Where these understandable anxieties become illogical is if they lead to deliberately giving yourself an increased chance of catching a virus that is similarly novel and where we are also still learning about long term consequences. And what we do know already is that in the short/medium term it is considerably more nasty and harmful than the vaccine.

So why would anyone be more fearful of the vaccine than they are about the virus? That makes no sense at all.
 
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