SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

cyberman said:
Good man. Id rather the cough than lack of taste. It really is a balls
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Been there, done that, back in April. I know how shit it feels. Woke up one morning and could not smell the soap on my hands as I was washing them, even when basically sticking my fingers up my nose. Back then it was all very new too and I had a couple of days of anxiety where I’d seen reports that people didn’t get their sense of taste and smell back at all. But most do after about 2 weeks; just keep in mind it’s going to be a gradual return to 100% of the senses and not one eureka moment. It was shit because food and drink lost all meaning and I ended up losing some weight back then.

Personally my senses started to come back around 10 days after I first lost them, and you might feel a fluctation at times where it seems to come and go; but don’t worry, it will all come back fully.

I read a very good medical report back then that explained it was simply a structure above the nose that connected the nerves of the nose to the brain that had swollen; and so the nerves were blocked from sending the nervous signals of the senses up through the brain. With time the swelling subsides and the passages open back up, which is when you start to smell and taste again.

Personally it took me a month and a half to get 100% back; salt was one of the first tastes to return but chocolate one of the last.

Hope this helps mate, chin up and just know it won’t be permanent!
 
NYAS said:
Been there, done that, back in April. I know how shit it feels. Woke up one morning and could not smell the soap on my hands as I was washing them, even when basically sticking my fingers up my nose. Back then it was all very new too and I had a couple of days of anxiety where I’d seen reports that people didn’t get their sense of taste and smell back at all. But most do after about 2 weeks; just keep in mind it’s going to be a gradual return to 100% of the senses and not one eureka moment. It was shit because food and drink lost all meaning and I ended up losing some weight back then.

Personally my senses started to come back around 10 days after I first lost them, and you might feel a fluctation at times where it seems to come and go; but don’t worry, it will all come back fully.

I read a very good medical report back then that explained it was simply a structure above the nose that connected the nerves of the nose to the brain that had swollen; and so the nerves were blocked from sending the nervous signals of the senses up through the brain. With time the swelling subsides and the passages open back up, which is when you start to smell and taste again.

Personally it took me a month and a half to get 100% back; salt was one of the first tastes to return but chocolate one of the last.

Hope this helps mate, chin up and just know it won’t be permanent!
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This does help. Thanks for this
 
NYAS said:
Been there, done that, back in April. I know how shit it feels. Woke up one morning and could not smell the soap on my hands as I was washing them, even when basically sticking my fingers up my nose. Back then it was all very new too and I had a couple of days of anxiety where I’d seen reports that people didn’t get their sense of taste and smell back at all. But most do after about 2 weeks; just keep in mind it’s going to be a gradual return to 100% of the senses and not one eureka moment. It was shit because food and drink lost all meaning and I ended up losing some weight back then.

Personally my senses started to come back around 10 days after I first lost them, and you might feel a fluctation at times where it seems to come and go; but don’t worry, it will all come back fully.

I read a very good medical report back then that explained it was simply a structure above the nose that connected the nerves of the nose to the brain that had swollen; and so the nerves were blocked from sending the nervous signals of the senses up through the brain. With time the swelling subsides and the passages open back up, which is when you start to smell and taste again.

Personally it took me a month and a half to get 100% back; salt was one of the first tastes to return but chocolate one of the last.

Hope this helps mate, chin up and just know it won’t be permanent!
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That’s interesting but not sure it’s true. I read that the nerves actually die. But the olfactory nerve is unusual it that it can regrow neurons (most other nerves can’t regenerate) Because these neurons are brand new it takes a while for your brain to adjust to them, so stuff can smell weird for a while after your smell comes back.

There’s a really fascinating theory based on the observation that people who lose their smell are more likely to have a less severe illness. That theory is that your body triggers cell death in these neurons to stop the virus getting a foothold in your CNS (it can only replicate in living cells) Kind of a scorched earth policy.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s interesting but not sure it’s true. I read that the nerves actually die. But the olfactory nerve is unusual it that it can regrow neurons (most other nerves can’t regenerate) Because these neurons are brand new it takes a while for your brain to adjust to them, so stuff can smell weird for a while after your smell comes back.

There’s a really fascinating theory based on the observation that people who lose their smell are more likely to have a less severe illness. That theory is that your body triggers cell death in these neurons to stop the virus getting a foothold in your CNS (it can only replicate in living cells) Kind of a scorched earth policy.
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Yeah, even back then it seemed the trend was: if you get mild Covid, you lose your taste and smell for weeks. If you get severe Covid, your senses stay in tact but you get admitted to hospital. Choose your poison. The worst symptom I had apart from the loss of senses was a headache that lasted a couple of hours. That was it.

During the first couple of days I even wished I had the more severe version instead. But back then I was genuinely worried that there was a chance I lost my taste and smell permanently. Which was a pretty sickening thought!
 
NYAS said:
Yeah, even back then it seemed the trend was: if you get mild Covid, you lose your taste and smell for weeks. If you get severe Covid, your senses stay in tact but you get admitted to hospital. Choose your poison. The worst symptom I had apart from the loss of senses was a headache that lasted a couple of hours. That was it.

During the first couple of days I even wished I had the more severe version instead. But back then I was genuinely worried that there was a chance I lost my taste and smell permanently. Which was a pretty sickening thought!
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Doesn’t bear thinking about. Must have been horrible. My sister’s best friend came of a bike and banged her head as a child and permanently lost her sense of smell. Such a shitty thing to deal with.
 
My school district has announced that since reopening elementary schools to 5 days per week went so well, they’re going to do the same with middle schools. Here’s the numbers for the county my school district covers since October. Elementary schools went back to 5 days per week in between 22 and 29 of October...

1 Oct: 170 cases / 100,000 - 11.4% pos
8 Oct: 198 cases / 100,000 - 11.3% pos
15 Oct: 235 cases / 100,000 - 14.2% pos
22 Oct: 289 cases / 100,000 - 13.8% pos
29 Oct: 314 cases / 100,000 - 14.1% pos
5 Nov: 324 cases / 100,000 - 15.8% pos
12 Nov: 400 cases / 100,000 - 17.6% pos
19 Nov: 541 cases / 100,000 - 19.5% pos
 
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BD said:
Perhaps an unanswerable question at the moment, but where are people catching covid? I gather that the rate of transmission in grocery shops is very very low? And the chances of getting it while meeting people outdoors (e.g for a walk) is low too? So where is all this transmission happening?

I'm not implying that those catching it are being irresponsible at all. I'm just curious, and probably chose those two examples selfishly as they're the only two ways I can see myself catching it at the moment.
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In the Uk, Supermarkets are number one. Then schools. Then Hospitals.
 
acnumber9 said:
You have to pick it up somewhere before you bring it home.
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If the data that's being referred to is the latest from PHE around the Test & Trace app:

Public Health England (PHE) collated the data using the NHS Test and Trace app - meaning that the figures were based on members of the public who had the app and had tested positive for COVID-19.

PHE said the data did not prove where people were contracting coronavirus.
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F-Red said:
If the data that's being referred to is the latest from PHE around the Test & Trace app:
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I think it’s close to impossible to know with any real certainty. Ultimately it has to get in your home somehow because it doesn’t start there. Be it from having somebody in your home or going to somebody else’s.

Homes are always going to be high on the list because there are significantly more homes than supermarkets though so once you bring it home and give it to somebody else that would be classed as the cluster wouldn’t it? I can’t pretend to be an expert on this though.
 
Another promising piece of news, this time on antibodies and reinfection.

From the Guardian covid news feed:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...08abc6a8cb51c0#block-5fb7c7ca8f08abc6a8cb51c0

From a trial being run at Oxford:
The healthcare workers were tested for antibodies to detect who had been infected before and then tested staff regularly for Covid-19, both when they became unwell with symptoms and also as part of regular testing of staff.

During the study, 89 of 11,052 staff without antibodies developed a new infection with symptoms and 76 tested positive when symptomless. By comparison none of the 1,246 staff with antibodies developed a symptomatic infection and only three developed an asymptomatic one.

Based on this preliminary study: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.18.20234369v1
 
acnumber9 said:
I think it’s close to impossible to know with any real certainty. Ultimately it has to get in your home somehow because it doesn’t start there. Be it from having somebody in your home or going to somebody else’s.

Homes are always going to be high on the list because there are significantly more homes than supermarkets though so once you bring it home and give it to somebody else that would be classed as the cluster wouldn’t it? I can’t pretend to be an expert on this though.
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Agree with you on all of that, it's all about the dwell time & homes are the prime place for that (without distancing, face coverings, long periods indoors). This is from the same report:

skynews-household-graph_5177216.jpg
 
golden_blunder said:
Anytime I’ve been to Dublin zoo it’s been packed with people
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Yeah it will have at a maximum capacity but I'm sure it could have been done. Many people/families would see it as a mental release and it could have kept the Zoo's in business.

It was one obvious way of keeping the balance between Covid health and mental/economic health.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I believe that was reported by the media, but relied on a, frankly, completely illiterate reading of the underlying data.
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Yeah, PHE produced what was a list of where people had been, which is of course quite different from a list of where people were actually infected. Didn't stop all the people that want pubs open putting it on facebook to 'prove' no one caught it in pubs though, but that's what we're up against.
 
711 said:
Yeah, PHE produced what was a list of where people had been, which is of course quite different from a list of where people were actually infected. Didn't stop all the people that want pubs open putting it on facebook to 'prove' no one caught it in pubs though, but that's what we're up against.
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I think test and trace only ask who you've met going back as far as two days before you got symptoms, because they're looking for who you could have given it to. So basically if you go out for the weekend and develop symptoms next Thursday, the system only wants to know about Tuesday onwards. They don't ask how you think you got it (which could be the pub, the gym, the cafe, or even the church 4 or 5 days before.

So even if people are doing it "by the book" and being completely honest, a lot of people genuinely won't have been anywhere or met anyone outside home, work, supermarket.

I think it's a major anomaly, because it means that they don't get much epidemiological information from the system. Nor can they alert people who are asymptomatic that "last Saturday in the pub you may have met a superspreader - get a test." Of course, delays in the system often mean it's pretty irrelevant anyway - one of my family has just been advised to self isolate for two days.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
In the Uk, Supermarkets are number one. Then schools. Then Hospitals.
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I severely doubt that.

We had 10s of millions going to supermarkets without masks up until July 24th. Cases fell down to 600, and that's with community testing catching the 600. We'd still be on 25k a day or many thousands with hundreds a day dead throughout the summer if people were getting it from supermarkets and bringing it home to their families. Not a chance it's from supermarkets.

Masks were brought in on 24th of July to get down the last few cases but coincidentally from that point onwards cases started to rise and rise across Europe. It's from sustained close contact in homes, mixing households, close confines at work, high schools and universities, parties etc.
 
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redshaw said:
I severely doubt that.

We had 10s of millions going to supermarkets without masks up until July 24th. Cases fell down to 600, and that's with community testing catching the 600. We'd still be on 25k a day or many thousands with hundreds a day dead throughout the summer if people were getting it from supermarkets and bringing it home to their families. Not a chance it's from supermarkets.

Masks were brought in on 24th of July to get down the last few cases but coincidentally from that point onwards cases started to rise and rise across Europe. It's from sustained close contact in homes, mixing households, close confines at work, high schools and universities, parties etc.
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There was a study done a few months back on the subject and they couldn't find a single confirmed case of supermarket transmission.

Everybody goes to the supermarket on a regular basis, of course most people who test positive will have been there recently. It's a bit like saying 100% of people with Covid went to the toilet the day they caught it, so going to the toilet must give you Covid.
 
jojojo said:
I think test and trace only ask who you've met going back as far as two days before you got symptoms, because they're looking for who you could have given it to. So basically if you go out for the weekend and develop symptoms next Thursday, the system only wants to know about Tuesday onwards. They don't ask how you think you got it (which could be the pub, the gym, the cafe, or even the church 4 or 5 days before.

So even if people are doing it "by the book" and being completely honest, a lot of people genuinely won't have been anywhere or met anyone outside home, work, supermarket.

I think it's a major anomaly, because it means that they don't get much epidemiological information from the system. Nor can they alert people who are asymptomatic that "last Saturday in the pub you may have met a superspreader - get a test." Of course, delays in the system often mean it's pretty irrelevant anyway - one of my family has just been advised to self isolate for two days.
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Exactly. A Public Health physician in Ireland tweeted about this recently. All they can do when case numbers are high is test people who the index case has been in contact with. So if that person doesn’t infect anyone else they learn nothing about transmission. And we know that the vast majority of cases infect nobody else.

If numbers were very low they could do a proper contact tracing, to try and establish where that individual got infected. So every case gives us vital information. They were gearing up to do that over the summer only to have to park it when cases started increasing in August/September.
 
https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2020/more-covid-19-in-some-occupational-groups/

Norwegian study about risks for different occupational groups during first and second wave. Unsurprisingly, bartenders and waiters being most at risk during the second wave, doctors and nurses in the first. Obviously bartenders could get it on their free time as well and on average they are younger. So impossible to make definite conclusions, but supports what many would think intuitively.
 
massi83 said:
https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2020/more-covid-19-in-some-occupational-groups/

Norwegian study about risks for different occupational groups during first and second wave. Unsurprisingly, bartenders and waiters being most at risk during the second wave, doctors and nurses in the first. Obviously bartenders could get it on their free time as well and on average they are younger. So impossible to make definite conclusions, but supports what many would think intuitively.
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HCW data during second wave is interesting. I remember seeing similar stuff in Italy. They’re actually at lower risk than general population. Kind of makes sense in that their working day is spent in PPE but you’d think their non-work activities would have them as exposed as everyone else their age. Maybe immunity after first wave infection played a part?
 
Been reading papers on some of the predictive models that are proposed/being used for Covid patients. Some of them are worryingly lax in their methods - I'd hope not too many strong decisions are being made based off their results in practice.

Any doctors have experience using similar models in their hospitals, and any insight into how much stock is put in the results from them?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
HCW data during second wave is interesting. I remember seeing similar stuff in Italy. They’re actually at lower risk than general population. Kind of makes sense in that their working day is spent in PPE but you’d think their non-work activities would have them as exposed as everyone else their age. Maybe immunity after first wave infection played a part?
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Norway's first wave was so miniscule that I don’t think immunity plays any significant role.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
What did Cuomo do wrong? I only know him from bickering with his brother on tv and NY generally doing a decent job at crushing the first wave. Has he fecked up since then?
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I refuse to believe this guy doesn't know how terrible cuomo has been in handling the pandemic. you have gazillion posts in this thread. how is that even possible?!
 
I thought you couldn`t travel from England to Wales . Next door neighbours family just arrived for the weekend , daughter, son in law and grandson all hugging and kissing at the door . I must admit it pisses me off when my mother and father in law haven`t been out since March and these cnuts next door just turn up and will spend the weekend doing whatever they want cos they are in lockdown at home.
 
entropy said:
I refuse to believe this guy doesn't know how terrible cuomo has been in handling the pandemic. you have gazillion posts in this thread. how is that even possible?!
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Educate me then.

As far as I can see New York got hammered, early on, in the same way as London, Paris and Brussels. All major transport hubs with huge throughput of European citizens (the initial epicentre outside China). Which won’t have been helped by an idiot like Trump in charge of the country.

Since then he’s been in charge of one of the only (maybe the only?) state with a second wave smaller than the first; that does more testing than any other state in the country and one of the lowest mortality rates. Particularly impressive considering how fecked up and expensive the American healthcare system is.

Is there something I’m missing here? Or is this more of your usual knee-jerk Bernie bro nonsense?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Educate me then.

As far as I can see New York got hammered, early on, in the same way as London, Paris and Brussels. All major transport hubs with huge throughput of European citizens (the initial epicentre outside China). Which won’t have been helped by an idiot like Trump in charge of the country.

Since then he’s been in charge of one of the only (maybe the only?) state with a second wave smaller than the first; that does more testing than any other state in the country and one of the lowest mortality rates. Particularly impressive considering how fecked up and expensive the American healthcare system is.

Is there something I’m missing here? Or is this more of your usual knee-jerk Bernie bro nonsense?
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No, I won't. Multiple posters have posted in this thread and in other threads regarding this subject. None of this is groundbreaking news to any of us, except you.
 
Cuomo
berbatrick said:
it was more than that -
Delayed the lockdown, delayed coordinating supplies, with doctors and nurses going without PPE, forced nuring homes to take patients from overcorwded hospitals, and shielded them from any liability for deaths that happen (and a ton happened as covid spread throughout the homes). Coincidentally he got a donation from nursing homes.

https://www.propublica.org/article/...y-for-covid-patients-prompts-more-controversy
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/andrew-cuomo-nursing-home-execs-immunity
https://www.propublica.org/article/...y-10-times-the-number-of-deaths-as-california

Since April he is one of the most popular politicians in the country. Btw, when googling for these links, which I remembered reading in May, few/none of the CNN or NYT articles that showed up carried anything about it. Propublica broke the delay story and David Sirota, a blogger, broke the liability story.
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