Held culpable to what measure? Seriously, do you think any government would do anything massively different? As far as I can see each country is facing similar situations and as far as I can see each country is resorting to similar actions and as far as I can see outcomes are pretty similar everywhere.
I know it’s easy to throw everything at those in charge but the responsibility to stop this massive surge in transmissions, in my view anyway, stop with us, the populace.
We’ve known how to reduce the spread since April, and it seems to me like large parts of our population have been so eager to live their lives normally that we find ourselves in this mess. I certainly don’t blame the government in isolation for this mess, most of my blame falls at the feet of idiots who just can’t understand the severity of the pandemic and the sacrifices we all will have to make for the next few months. I’m fine with it.
Another fecking lockdown what a joke. Absolutely killing people's livelihoods. I don't doubt that this virus is horrible and killing lots of people but there's plenty of other illnesses and conditions that kill people too. We can't just keep shutting everything down, people are going to be broke and out on the street if this carries on.
Held culpable to what measure? Seriously, do you think any government would do anything massively different? As far as I can see each country is facing similar situations and as far as I can see each country is resorting to similar actions and as far as I can see outcomes are pretty similar everywhere.
I know it’s easy to throw everything at those in charge but the responsibility to stop this massive surge in transmissions, in my view anyway, stop with us, the populace.
We’ve known how to reduce the spread since April, and it seems to me like large parts of our population have been so eager to live their lives normally that we find ourselves in this mess. I certainly don’t blame the government in isolation for this mess, most of my blame falls at the feet of idiots who just can’t understand the severity of the pandemic and the sacrifices we all will have to make for the next few months. I’m fine with it.
How can you say that?! It's been a disaster. The track and trace is shit, that's on them because Boris Johnson has given jobs to the boys and the person in charge is married to a Tory mp and has a track record of failures in other companies.
Boris and Government were to blame for total inaction during January and February which cost UK 1000s of innocent deaths and massive impact on economy. Every decision since has been negatively impacted because of that. But Tories think Boris, Rishi and HealthCock did well.
Even now, it seems like taking the circuit breaker during half term could have lessened impact, but we are now facing a month lockdown instead.
Last I checked, hundreds of people don't die everyday in this country from bus collisions.Those who are vulnerable and want to shield continue to do so and the rest take our chances and try to get on with our lives. Continue to be sensible with mask wearing/social distancing. Lockdowns just delay. I know so many people who have lost their jobs, this is such a desperate situation. Every day there are risks, if this is all over you could walk out in front of a bus and it kills you, sorry to be so morbid and if I sound callous but everyone has to die of something.
What's your solution to this then? Have you been under threat of redundancy in your job? I'm sure your mindset will shift somewhat if it was.There literally has never been anything in your lifetime that is as dangerous and spreads as quickly as this, nor has there been any illness that killed more people in a single month than covid in April...while we were in lockdown. It isn't comparable to your chance of getting hit by a bus.
Profiting off the Pandemic, corruption check.
One rule for us, another for them, check.
Reacting rather than proactive, check
Ignoring scientific advice, check
Yes it's an impossible situation but the government have been incredibly incompetent.
Governments all around the world are struggling and the tories have definetly made the odd good decision but it's always fell short.
Trying to find that twitter guy who does the a week in tory.. that is enough to make you want to thump a wall.
I'm fairly confident Dominic Cummings is calling the shots anyway. Johnson is just a puppet.It’s easy to blame those in charge but while I agree that these decisions could cost lives, you also have to understand that for every voice shouting in Boris’s ear concerning lives, there are just as many shouting about the economy and livelihoods. It can’t be easy and as far as I can see most leaders are struggling also. It must be like trying to hold water.
A segment of British people are just too selfish and cant be trusted for your strategy to work.Those who are vulnerable and want to shield continue to do so and the rest take our chances and try to get on with our lives. Continue to be sensible with mask wearing/social distancing. Lockdowns just delay. I know so many people who have lost their jobs, this is such a desperate situation. Every day there are risks, if this is all over you could walk out in front of a bus and it kills you, sorry to be so morbid and if I sound callous but everyone has to die of something.
Ok well what's your solution to this then? Have you been at risk of redundancy and witnessed the impact this has on people's mental wellbeing?A segment of British people are just too selfish and cant be trusted for your strategy to work.
And yes, your last line reads as extremely callous.
You’re the one making the point. Back it up.You have the same access to the data that I do. It's just google. We know when countries re-opened their schools, we know when peaks in transmission happened, and we know when those two things didn't align. Just from two google searches per country. If you really wanted the answer to the question rather than trying to make a point, you'd be better off just googling these things for your own peace of mind. Instead it looks like you're only googling evidence that fits the narrative you want to put out there. But sure I'll pull up some numbers.
To pick up on your point about the scientific assessment from NI, I think it's worth clarifying a couple of things. They didn't say that closing schools would reduce the R rate by 0.5. They said it oould be as low as 0.2, or as high as 0.5. They gave a more confident prediction that secondary schools would a) be more likely to spread the virus, and b) be around 0.35. So if secondary schools are more likely to spread it, and their best estimate is 0.35 for them, then we can safely assume their estimate for primary schools is closer to 0.2. Very possibly lower. They also said in the same document that overall the assessment is provided with "low confidence, as unclear how much schools may contribute to community transmission." and other measures related to education are "low confidence, as remains unclear how infectious children may be." And their modelling on education settings was based on influenza, because as they said repeatedly, they haven't got any clear evidence on covid spreading in classrooms. Despite the fact that you believe it to be an obvious driver of this second wave, they can't find the evidence for it at all.
Pages 13-15 here, Geebs. The scientists aren't saying different things, they are just being misrepresented. You don't need to trust my words or his words, the advisers laid it out incredibly thoroughly there. The views from NI's expert are entirely consistent with the consensus that older teenagers in secondary school are more likely to spread it than young kids in primary school, and that there is no evidence that schools are hotbeds of transmission.
I'm fairly confident Dominic Cummings is calling the shots anyway. Johnson is just a puppet.
What's your solution to this then? Have you been under threat of redundancy in your job? I'm sure your mindset will shift somewhat if it was.
I think you're right. That's why they didn't sack him.I'm fairly confident Dominic Cummings is calling the shots anyway. Johnson is just a puppet.
I think during a global pandemic it is a fairly safe bet to listen to your scientists!I didn’t actually imply anything, just wondered why you think the majority wouldn’t support a lockdown.
And nor did I say it was easy, quite the opposite. I certainly don’t envy the PM at this time.
That’s all well and good, but it feels a little wrong to me to tell the vulnerable to suck it up and hide away, especially when it inevitably will reach them anyway.Those who are vulnerable and want to shield continue to do so and the rest take our chances and try to get on with our lives. Continue to be sensible with mask wearing/social distancing. Lockdowns just delay. I know so many people who have lost their jobs, this is such a desperate situation. Every day there are risks, if this is all over you could walk out in front of a bus and it kills you, sorry to be so morbid and if I sound callous but everyone has to die of something.
He is right though. No evidence anywhere that under 12 year olds are a big problem. It has been told to you many times, but you just ignore it everytime and group all the school ages together.You’re the one making the point. Back it up.
It does matter, because he is not elected and is not a scientist.Again, all of that doesn’t matter in a way. We all know what Covid is, how it works, how it spreads and how we can stop it but all year I’ve seen idiots either fighting it, ignoring it or denying it. Now look where we are.
What's your solution to this then? Have you been under threat of redundancy in your job? I'm sure your mindset will shift somewhat if it was.
I went earlier, it was actually fairly quiet considering, but I’m in wales so might be different.Anyone been to a supermarket today? How was it?
Seems likely.I think you're right. That's why they didn't sack him.
On that certain gaming forum we also lounge on - a few people in there all saying it was like Christmas / empty shelves againAnyone been to a supermarket today? How was it?
I tend to agree. Even if we lockdown now the effects won't be seen for weeks and the doubling of cases and deaths will keep on going. Hospitals already close to capacity and no additional staff available to work in nightingale hospitals. Hell, alot of NHS staff are already having to self isolate so they are short staffed as it is. The main factor for me is not overwhelming the hospitals.There isn't a solution. We're in a pandemic. Some problems can't be solved, just managed, and a series of bad outcomes weighed up.
The problem with the virus isn't that it kills a lot of people. And it should be reiterated that it kills a shitload of people, even under the most absurd conditions. If it "only" killed 50,000 people while we've went through two lockdowns, and in between a shitload of restrictions, how many people do you honestly think it would have killed if we had just let it rip? We know, conclusively, it would have been magnitudes higher. Let's be a little ridiculous here and assume it "only" would have killed 100,000. Last year 63,000 people died from ischemic heart disease. The only thing that killed more was dementia. Covid might well kill more than either of them, despite the most insane efforts to prevent it from running out of control, and collapsing the health system.
The problem is how quickly it spreads. We already know that in two weeks' time twice as many people will be dying than they are now. If we didn't do anything at all, we would reasonably expect it to double again, and double again. These aren't theories, they've happened repeatedly across the world. There's no "option" to just open things back up and deal with it because there would be fewer doctors than people with life-threatening covid in a matter of weeks. Then things get real bad.
Its a false argument though, theres no way we were ever getting through winter without a lockdown, but we may have been able to get away with a short one. Not anymore.It’s easy to blame those in charge but while I agree that these decisions could cost lives, you also have to understand that for every voice shouting in Boris’s ear concerning lives, there are just as many shouting about the economy and livelihoods. It can’t be easy and as far as I can see most leaders are struggling also. It must be like trying to hold water.
What ticks me off is that for all the "we should work together on this" it doesn't seem to happen. Did Boris just get the news that we would need a lockdown 24 hours ago?Think it’ll be hard to enforce actually. Nowhere near enough police to deal with the lockdown and I think the majority of people rightly or wrongly don’t care.
I would imagine here in Scotland we will follow suit with England relatively soon.
Yep! We have to protect the beds, we cannot afford to be overwhelmed and as you point out we can’t be in a position where we are choosing who lives and dies.I tend to agree. Even if we lockdown now the effects won't be seen for weeks and the doubling of cases and deaths will keep on going. Hospitals already close to capacity and no additional staff available to work in nightingale hospitals. Hell, alot of NHS staff are already having to self isolate so they are short staffed as it is. The main factor for me is not overwhelming the hospitals.
If critical care departments are having to decide which patient, A or B gets to use the one available ICU, as happened in the first wave then we are fecked.
He isn’t right though. Because there’s no proof he’s right. Whether it’s primary schools or secondary schools doesn’t matter. Schools have to be having an impact. And the scientific evidence used in Northern Ireland suggests it is an issue. How big an issue remains to be seen but people with their head in the sands are bonkers. All we have are hypotheses. The numbers tell their own story.He is right though. No evidence anywhere that under 12 year olds are a big problem. It has been told to you many times, but you just ignore it everytime and group all the school ages together.
It does matter, because he is not elected and is not a scientist.
Eithet way, the mixed messaging from the government has not helped the "idiot" factor has it?
Stay home in March, masks dont work, then it is your duty to go back to work and school, then eat out to help out, then masks do work, then work from home when possible (in September, ignoring Sage advice), then calling Starmer a political opportunist for asking the government to listen to scientists and have a circuit breaker lockdown, now, lockdown.
Simple.
Anyone been to a supermarket today? How was it?
That is somewhat true, but the government have to set the example, the tone and the boundaries, and telling us to go out and all have dinner out on them, calling the pubs opening ‘super Saturday’, oh and not breaking their own lockdown rules too would help.I didn’t say that the issue of Cummings role in the heart of government wasn’t an issue, just that although the government. Boris. Cummings. Hancock. All of them, getti my things wrong I still see it as OUR responsibility to fecking behave in a way that reduces the spread of the virus.
What makes you think it’s the majority that don’t care? It’s a shame we have a population that would need such policing during a lockdown.
There is a reason we’re all making these sacrifices, it’s happening all over Europe.
That is somewhat true, but the government have to set the example, the tone and the boundaries, and telling us to go out and all have dinner out on them, calling the pubs opening ‘super Saturday’, oh and not breaking their own lockdown rules too would help.
First aisle was fruit and veg. Halfway down it switches to Dairy. Decent amount of energy drinks and sandwiches. At the back is fresh meats and ready meals. Back corner is freezers and then on to the bakery. Final bend is Alcohol, not a great selection but they have what I needed.
I steer clear of the middle section as there’s so much temptation there! It’s where you’ll find chocolate, cereals, crisps and such.
The only time I dare venture there is to go to the ‘Countries’ section. I grab West Indian bits as well as a can of Irn Bru. It’s kept on a special shelf as it’s from Scotland.
Hope that helps.
I completely understand the temptation to say it's not me at risk why should I be impacted but the amount of people in the vulnerable category is too many to shield. Not only that what about their jobs and mental health too?
Toilet roll?
I agree, but if people are hearing their PM use weak phrases like "we advise you" instead of "oi, shitface. Don't fecking do it or we'll throw you down a well" then people are more likely to take the piss.I know it’s easy to throw everything at those in charge but the responsibility to stop this massive surge in transmissions, in my view anyway, stop with us, the populace.
We’ve known how to reduce the spread since April, and it seems to me like large parts of our population have been so eager to live their lives normally that we find ourselves in this mess. I certainly don’t blame the government in isolation for this mess, most of my blame falls at the feet of idiots who just can’t understand the severity of the pandemic and the sacrifices we all will have to make for the next few months. I’m fine with it.
Oh yeah I agree! I’m still seeing idiots go into shops without masks! Makes me so cross.I agree. I’m not sticking up for them but it does annoy me when people use them as an excuse for our idiot population.
My Prime Minister may be an idiot but I’m certainly able to not be one regardless.
