Thankfully. There now. They do random checks so had to have another covid test when we landed- this one was throat and nose.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
I know they aren’t the same but they are passed the same way
anyway I think we will have to agree to disagree for now until data 100% proves the point either way.
The thing is, these scientists and medical professionals that are saying they don't think there's much risk of kids passing on corona, are the same ones who say that kids are one of the biggest transmitters of the common cold. They're not mutually inclusive. Everything we knew about coronaviruses - the common cold, SARS - suggested that kids would be a huge spreader, because they do spread those a lot. Many of the medical professionals that are saying they think kids are relatively low risk for passing on corona are ones who predicted they would be a huge spreader before. They agreed on the same set of assumptions you've offered up - me too. The thing is, the evidence so far contradicts it from multiple angles.
Viruses just spread differently, and while we know very little about this one, it spreading less among kids is one of the elements of transmission they're most confident of. At a point surely we have to hold our hands up and say we don't have a clue about the biological processes in corona transmission, these guys have studied it a lot while operating from the same basic assumptions we did, and they've surprisingly but consistently found it doesn't behave the way we expected it to. They can be wrong, we shouldn't just trust "scientists", but we can still recognise they have more to evaluate it from than we do, and even anecdotally we don't have a lot of evidence to contest them.
I wouldn't agree with that as proof at all. Schools are forced to close because of the procedures we established, which are built on the assumption schools are high risks for super spreader events. They're closed because of an abundance of caution rather than because they have repeatedly caused the events we worried about. I think that was entirely sensible but I wouldn't think that is a particularly strong indicator of anything other than they're following the procedures established.
The scientists have drawn the same distinction you have - specifically they think people that are 16, 17 and 18 are as likely as anyone else to spread it. Everyone below that age spreads is significantly less, and young kids particularly so. They still spread it, but much less than we expected when we designed those precautionary measures. One of the better indicators of schools not being an especially big transmission zone has been a kind of natural experiment, where some countries have taken a lot of precautionary measures while others haven't, and they've had similar outcomes. The virus gets in there, in many cases from outside the school, but once it gets in it doesn't really spread in the way you'd expect it to. There's proportionately many fewer events
As it still is a place where transmission can happen, it does help to close them down. It just contributes a lot less than we'd expected, or in similar social settings where adults congregate. Agreed there's still plenty to learn but we started from the assumption that kids would spread a lot and the evidence has consistently (albeit not entirely) pointed in the opposite direction, across a wide range of studies from a wide range of locations.
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/worlds-biggest-contact-tracing-study-22828326
apparently kids are massive when it comes to spreading Corona.
apparently kids are massive when it comes to spreading Corona.
When you think about what happened in universities its hard to imagine 14-16 year olds not being responsible for spreading the disease. I can understand that it may be different for primary aged children but there wont be a clear cut off at 16 or 18.
Yeah, agreed. I don’t think we can consider primary and secondary schools the same. Although, theoretically, the older kids should be better at complying with social distancing when in school. Which might help.
@Brwned im referring to a couple of different things with schools. In this country there have been hundreds of schools closed as there have been clusters found there. Then, the government has just totally closed all senior schools as they know they are big spreaders.
I have come to the conclusion by now to just ignore whatever the UK government and advisors say. Other European governments are far more reliable.
I have come to the conclusion by now to just ignore whatever the UK government and advisors say. Other European governments are far more reliable.
There is no way that 14-16 year olds are socially distancing more than primary school kids.
Fair enough about the UK. I certainly don't pay any more attention to their advisors than other government advisors - the studies about children came from multiple countries outside the UK. I don't pay much attention to what any of the politicians from any country say about children in schools as that's a very difficult political challenge.
I can share the findings from other countries if you think it's a UK centric view, led by uk scientific advisors?
Many clusters have been found in the UK too but they have been notably smaller than clusters among adults under similar conditions, and in the countries that have been less strict about responding to clusters, they haven't seen a greater degree of spread than those that have responded strictly. Hard to explain why that is beyond the general notion that a classroom of kids under 16 doesn't spread the virus as much as a classroom of kids 16 and over, or a bunch of adults in a similarly confined space.
And yet the scientific evidence used in Northern Ireland showed that closing schools would reduce the R rate by 0.5. How is the science explaining the explosion in cases two weeks after schools opened?
Except for the kissing and canoodling.(lucky devils).
Yeah, exactly. And that begs the question as to how much more kissing and canoodling they’d get up to if they didn’t spend 8.30am to 3.30pm every day being forcibly socially distanced?
The same amount they were doing all summer when they weren’t forced to spend 6-7 hours indoors together?
True.
It's explaining it by demonstrating similar explosions in cases have happened independently of schools re-opening, in many many places. That doesn't mean that schools are not the cause of the explosion, but it does mean we know that those things can happen even without the sudden rush back to schools. The factors that explain that explosion could also explain that one. But then science is better at disproving things than proving things, especially in complex situations in high pressure environments in a rapidly evolving crisis.
I wish kissing and canoodling had been considered so likely in my teens that people were worried I would be a national health threat if given more free time.
In reality the only danger would be that I would literally wank myself into a coma.
In reality the only danger would be that I would literally wank myself into a coma.
What countries are they?
The annoying thing is that scientists and researchers are always contradicting each other constantly. It’s hard to know really who is right and who is wrong. On that basis I have a small amount of empathy for governments.
Nah, Most are tiny mate.
Unless you mean that massive kids spread the Rona. Which may be the case.
In those circumstances you have to apply common sense. Full lockdown worked, their tier restrictions haven’t. The one thing they haven’t tried again is closing schools.
Clearly my neighbour has heard the news so has decided to have lots of people round today. People's inclination to try and beat restrictions rather than use common sense astounds me.
We're in a tier 2 area as well so I'm fairly sure it isn't even allowed under current measures.
We're in a tier 2 area as well so I'm fairly sure it isn't even allowed under current measures.
Are you gonna grass them up?
Yeah it's no mixing households indoors in T2
... Just for once stop whining about the people in charge and do your job.
Nah of course not just going to moan about it on here of course
They're young parents and i get the impression struggling for money so I wouldn't have the heart to dob them in.
Genuine question
lots of people state an effective track and trace system is the only way out of this madness pending a vaccine.
I just don’t understand how that’s workable with a 90% asymptomatic rate. Most people never know they have it and are spreading it.
lots of people state an effective track and trace system is the only way out of this madness pending a vaccine.
I just don’t understand how that’s workable with a 90% asymptomatic rate. Most people never know they have it and are spreading it.
Save testing absolutely everyone, there is no sure fire way to pin down every case. That has been the problem with this virus from the very beginning.
Think it’ll be hard to enforce actually. Nowhere near enough police to deal with the lockdown and I think the majority of people rightly or wrongly don’t care.
I would imagine here in Scotland we will follow suit with England relatively soon.
I would imagine here in Scotland we will follow suit with England relatively soon.
Lockdown in Austria as well starting with Tuesday. Well apart from schools and Kindergarten. Which makes the whole thing a tad ridiculous as kids are a massive factor for spreading the virus.
Nah of course not just going to moan about it on here of course
They're young parents and i get the impression struggling for money so I wouldn't have the heart to dob them in.
I was talking to mates about this earlier and they were saying that there are apparently incentives in place for people to dob in their non compliant neighbours. Not sure whether that’s nonsense or not.
Edit: Not saying you should grass them up btw. I’d probably be inclined to do the same as you and just post about it on here!
Yep, thinking this too. The narrative around the first was guided around the NHS and it led to a more sustained effort but it's not been on the radar for a while. I expect a significant backlash here.
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Cant believe Boris dithered again, shouldve locked down when Sage told him to. Muppet.
It’s amazing isn’t it. The ineptitude at this point isn’t even funny, it’s costing lives by the thousands.
Where's the question ?
I can, it was inevitable he would either again.
Was hoping that gyms would be classed as essential given the benefit to mental and physical health, especially considering we’re heading into winter and the exercise options that were taken up in spring outside won’t be as popular or possible.