SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Ah. Ok. Makes sense. So red states on the increase might be driven more by geography than politics?
Not entirely. Politics has a lot to do with it, no doubt. It was just going to take a while to permeate the innards of the country, especially the flyover states. One could probably blame the first wave on the geography issue. The fact that the virus seems to be persisting now in those areas can be somewhat chalked up to politics (& social media) entrenching certain behaviors.
Yeah, bound to be a bit of both. I just tend to automatically get cynical when I see this pandemic used to score political points. Obviously Trump and his team have been a disaster from the get go but this thing is getting completely out of hand all over the world, under governments/regional leaders from right across the political spectrum.
My sister has covid. Just got her results back. She's proper rough. My best mate and his wife also both positive but not quite as rough.
Fingers crossed for the best.
Boris saying he will intervene in Manchester unless Andy Burnham gets back to table, and gets Tier 3 in place.
Manchester, according to Boris, will in 2 weeks have as many patients in ICU with Covid, as we did during the first peak. If this is true and I've not yet checked the numbers, then Boris, you need to hurry up and intervene!
Manchester, according to Boris, will in 2 weeks have as many patients in ICU with Covid, as we did during the first peak. If this is true and I've not yet checked the numbers, then Boris, you need to hurry up and intervene!
It's awful to find anything funny in this but I like the scousers are enraged because when they were put in tier 3 their gyms were ordered to close, and fined if they didn't, this afternoon Lancashire has gone to tier 3 just the same, but negotiated for the gyms to stay open. Should have tried harder scousers.
Insulting another member
Fcuk off you child.
Hate the football club and it’s daft fans. But support the City at a human level.
Grow up.
Got my test results. No covid for me.
Give over.
This garbage virus has already completely destroyed my work industry, by the time it's over almost nothing will be left. Not gonna let this destroy my social life and mental health. You are free to hide under your bed for an unknown number of years that no one knows because let's be honest, no one knows the end to this tunnel. Anyone who claims they have a timeline when it's over, are talking out of their arse.
Anyways, back to discussion, Even countries with much higher restrictions than Poland over the summer are seeing massive rises. In many cases more so than Poland.
I wonder what happened that nearly ALL European countries regardless of their loose/strict approach ended up in seeing the second wave at the same time. Almost as it all happened as the temperatures winded down from 20s to low 10s.
I can't believe they are closing the gyms again here. The absolute clowns in charge.
Not a single case of community transmission from gyms that I am aware of....a place to get strong and healthier, almost exclusively for the younger people at little risk. Gyms where 20-40 year olds gather are closed, and churches where 50-70 year olds gather remain open with a little limit on their capacity. and then the PM says: "Elderly stay home, Young folks, show solidarity."
It really feels as the gov'ts around the world just copy each other like monkeys without any independent oversight.
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Barely a case in China
Belgium: bars and restaurants close for 4 weeks, mandatory working from home, only 4 close contacts outside the household, not allowed outside between 12 and 5am.
Italy with 10k cases 55 deaths
France 25k cases 122 deaths
Spain 12k cases 222 deaths
France 25k cases 122 deaths
Spain 12k cases 222 deaths
It really is incredible how they’ve completely crushed this thing. Shows what can be achieved when you’re not hindered by pesky rules around data protection and human rights.
China recently mass tested a whole area becasue of two cases. They don't mess around hoping cases will drop or level out.
I’m only half joking. Desperate times call for desperate measures. We could be out of this shit by now if we’d been able to copy their approach.
Interestingly, they have found most of the cases recently are from international travelers.
My best friend lives in China. I asked him how the Covid situation was yesterday. His reply was “What Covid situation? It lasted one month.”
Has this been posted yet?
Misleading headline. They make it seem like they’re still allowed to do it outdoors. They aren’t.
I like fecking outdoors anyway
It’s impressive testing millions in such a short space of time. Puts the west to shame
Still a bit fishy they have almost no new cases if you ask me.
It’s not really. They took extreme measures to get an extreme outcome. Completely closed their borders and did a longer, more extreme and rigorously enforced lockdown than any European country. Testing on a monstrous scale, with citizens forced to give up their data for tracking/tracing. They even separated anyone who tested positive from their families the instant results came back positive (which they had to wait for at the centre they were tested in). Put them in massive temporary field hospitals until they recovered. Just a bunch of really radical measures that would be political suicide (and mass infringement of human rights) anywhere else but they got the job done. You kind of have to admire them.
It sure paid off. All getting very very messy in Europe again. Another shutdown won't come though (at least here in Austria). Would be economical suicide.
Victoria traced one Melbourne case (a truck driver) and found he had driven to a town outside Melbourne. They identified 400 contacts who had to isolate, tested 6000+ people in the one town and kept the outbreak to 3 cases.
Almost impossible to do unless you have very few cases.
Short of a national stage 5 lockdown including closing national borders with police guarded hotel quarantine for returning residents (which obviously isn't on the table) it is hard to see how the UK can get their cases low enough to do full scale track and trace. Which of course doesn't mean it still isn't important to do what you can.
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Agree with godfather and wibble.
You have to be very naive to think China has zero cases. ZERO.
Even Australia/NZ being islands and Korea with extensive testing do not see zero.
China's numbers are what the CCP wants them to be. As with everything else.
At the same time, for China's population, 100 cases or even a thousand cases a day which are quickly identified are essentially zero. Even 1000 cases is less than 50 cases/day normalized to the UK's population.
And talking to people on the ground in China, I do not think the number of cases is more than a thousand per day (and probably closer to 100).
Where does he live?
Talking to people in Shanghai, there were extremely strict Covid requirements for at least 3 months.
You have to be very naive to think China has zero cases. ZERO.
Even Australia/NZ being islands and Korea with extensive testing do not see zero.
China's numbers are what the CCP wants them to be. As with everything else.
At the same time, for China's population, 100 cases or even a thousand cases a day which are quickly identified are essentially zero. Even 1000 cases is less than 50 cases/day normalized to the UK's population.
And talking to people on the ground in China, I do not think the number of cases is more than a thousand per day (and probably closer to 100).
Where does he live?
Talking to people in Shanghai, there were extremely strict Covid requirements for at least 3 months.
I think it is certainly a large part of it.
Liberals shouldn't need to resort to dodgy stats to prove a completely valid point.
Rolling average of new cases per million would have been more accurate. This infographic deliberately chooses a date when NY, NJ, CT, IL start to tail off and the South and CA start rising.
NZ has eradicated again and Australia only had 3 new cases yesterday (barring overseas arrivals in quarantine). Very hard to eradicate in a country the size of Australia and I'd be surprised if we managed it through to a vaccine. It would be great of course.
We also had our first quarantine free flight arrivals from NZ which was a moral boost.
and a state with capability. even in a capitalist economy, they have not hollowed out the state like almost all countries have done since the 80s. millions of state employees and large companies. the rapid setting-up of hospitals, the rapid increase in mask production (even now the vast majority of masks sold worldwide are made there, 9 months after they couldn't supply a single city), the mobilisation of doctors and nurses into Wuhan, and the way they have implemented quarantine after the initial chaos (food delivery+monitoring).
you were happy with the UK's billions spent on faulty contact tracing. imagine if china had to pay consulting companies to come up with ways to do each of those things, and then pay agencies for outsourcing. the funny thing is, unlike the US, the british state does have a large permanent bureacracy supposedly with institutional memory which one ran half the world, this is the kind of place where they could have proven useful.
in india we have in reality zero data or human rights protection but no comparable success. we even have a massive bureacracy and large PSUs (railways) but their response has been awful beyond belief. corrupt and confused leadership, an informal economy, and the state has never attempted something at this scale.
the trump govt can do many things in red states (with friendly state govts and a partisan judiciary) and there hasn't even been a semblance of an attempt, quite the opposite. same applies to russia, and probably many other places.
Have to agree with you: although there are obvious reasons to why we have those ...”obstacles” in place that we do, not having them has shown to have its advantages in addressing an issue like this.
I find this really interesting, not least because my best friend now lives in India and I find myself far more drawn to domestic stories from there than ever before. Interesting to consider different “capabilities” even in different countries with a relatively similar lack of certain rights (according to you!)
berba doesn't like the current ruling party in India.
It is silly to compare India and China on civil rights. The fact that he and millions of others can constantly criticize the ruling party and democratically get them changed is already evidence of it.
From the last human rights report, comparing the 3 biggest countries in the 3 categories of "personal freedom" that most need to be curtailed to authoritatively kill a pandemic
| Category | China | India | US |
| Assoc., Assembly and Civil Society | 1.5 | 7 | 10 |
| Movement | 3.3 | 6.7 | 10 |
| Expression and Information | 5.2 | 7.9 | 9.2 |
The first 2 means you can effectively kill all assembly and movement in China.
Honestly, if you want to look at a good developing world examples, Sri Lanka or Malaysia are much better. Vietnam as well but at the cost of more civil rights.
i should clarify that on paper we have all the human rights you'd expect from a liberal democracy and a few years ago the supreme court affirmed the right to privacy 9-0.
but the same court has bent over backwards to deny very basic petitions (like habeus corpus, without that there is no effective right against indefinite detention), and have sided with the government and ruling party in practically every major case for 6 years. the criminal provision for sedition, anti-terrorist laws, and preventive detention have meant that dozens of barely-known govt opponents are in jail for months without trial and sometimes without being charged. govt-friendly news channels have obtained private text messages, the police routinely leak them too, and again neither the govt nor the courts have said a word about our fundamental right to privacy.
the vast majority of people aren't just supportive of the newly re-elected central govt, they trust the PM deeply. if he said clearly that something was necessary, nothing could stop it from happening (and being popular among the population).
so i feel that in reality (as opposed to on paper) there was nothing stopping the govt from responding in whatever way they wanted to.
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How is Boris going to see his mistresses?
"I just went over to hers' to check my eyesight."