SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[11101]

@Brwned

Our testing is shot. I got my result back today. 5 days. Result? Inconclusive.

I have been isolating with my partner for those 5 days.

My last outing was to a pub on Saturday. All four of us checked in using the App.

I advised my two friends. One is a builder and can’t work from home. But he rode to work this week instead of taking the tube, wore a mask at work and advised the other two people on site of his situation. His partner worked from home this week.

The App hasn’t alerted any of them that they’ve spent time with someone that has logged two of three symptoms. I can’t log an inconclusive test result for some reason.

This is 5 days. We’re all like minded and affluent individuals so I don’t think the impact is too bad. But what if all four of us had a job that meant we had to work with others?

This is not anecdotal evidence. This is evidencing example. There are countless stories like this.

You seem to be fixated on the numbers and percentages and who’s doing better.

The absolute core fundamentals of our system are broken. There are no examples of this System working for the majority. Fcuk loads of people are dead. The devil does not need an advocate here.

I’m not shouting at a wall, I’m pissed off. Everyone should be. The people we trust to look after society have failed us. Looking for cracks of daylight as we continue to be covered in an ever increasing pile of rubble is not helpful to anyone.

You’re suggesting that we support and buy into a narrative that is ‘Some are doing worse, few are doing better’.

Fcuk. That.

I have lots of friends with similar stories. I cant fathom how people think the UK is doing well with all this. It's a complete mess of a system. I saw the UK is bragging that 1/3 of tests are now getting results within 24 hours. In Italy I can get a test any time I like and the results will be back in a couple of hours at most. Same in Switzerland. Both countries have had functioning tracking apps for months.

I just arrived into Heathrow airport, got squashed onto a bus from the plane (thanks BA) and nobody stopped me or asked anything about where I'd been or whether I had done the contact form. I walked straight out of the airport. I know it wont be like that when I fly back to Milan next week.

 

[Brwned]

The government set a target of 80% contact rate and our scientists said we need to achieve that 80% for it to be effective. That should be the minimum benchmark.

You say we could have paid our own
organisation to do a "mediocre job". Yet I've given you evidence of public health achieving 98% contact rate vs Serco at 40%. If both 98% and 40% are defined as mediocre by you then I don't know where to start. The decision to use Serco was a massive £12bn mistake.

If there are large variations in local area for a "myriad of reasons", then maybe the project should be managed locally by health organisations that understand the area?

Man, there's a reason why you haven't provided the evidence for your initial claim, the only claim I've ever challenged of yours. That many other countries are doing contact tracing better, or the list of countries doing it better is longer than the list of countries doing it worse. The evidence does not exist. And there's a reason for that, too. Ignoring that reason only serves to amplify political rhetoric and distract from practical solutions.

@Brwned

Our testing is shot. I got my result back today. 5 days. Result? Inconclusive.

I have been isolating with my partner for those 5 days.

My last outing was to a pub on Saturday. All four of us checked in using the App.

I advised my two friends. One is a builder and can’t work from home. But he rode to work this week instead of taking the tube, wore a mask at work and advised the other two people on site of his situation. His partner worked from home this week.

The App hasn’t alerted any of them that they’ve spent time with someone that has logged two of three symptoms. I can’t log an inconclusive test result for some reason.

This is 5 days. We’re all like minded and affluent individuals so I don’t think the impact is too bad. But what if all four of us had a job that meant we had to work with others?

This is not anecdotal evidence. This is evidencing example. There are countless stories like this.

You seem to be fixated on the numbers and percentages and who’s doing better.

The absolute core fundamentals of our system are broken. There are no examples of this System working for the majority. Fcuk loads of people are dead. The devil does not need an advocate here.

I’m not shouting at a wall, I’m pissed off. Everyone should be. The people we trust to look after society have failed us. Looking for cracks of daylight as we continue to be covered in an ever increasing pile of rubble is not helpful to anyone.

You’re suggesting that we support and buy into a narrative that is ‘Some are doing worse, few are doing better’.

Fcuk. That.

That's not what I've said. I'll put it in a single sentence for you.

If you consider this system to be a failure, while the evidence repeatedly demonstrates that most countries are in a similar situation despite a wide range of circumstances, then it is more likely that the system cannot work in the way you expect it to, rather than it being something that will change if we just execute better.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry, I'm saying there's better things to be angry about.

 

[onemanarmy]

132 dead yesterday. Over 500 total this week. All ICUs across the country are full, in some areas if you have heart attack you are dead as they won't even attempt to help you anymore as they don't have ambulances.

Grim.

 

[Brwned]

@Brwned
I can validate that. My office colleague tested positive 6 days ago.

He spoke to test and trace 6 days ago but no one I work with has been contacted by them yet. Luckily we have all self isolated because our colleague told us.

I had symptoms but luckily I tested negative, so guess it was a cold or flu in my case.

Yes, that's a feature of the pandemic being out of control in your locality, not a feature of the system. This is in the Czech Republic last week.

The track-and-trace system has struggled to keep up. Authorities are taking days - sometimes 14 - to contact people who might have come into contact with an infected person. Its helplines are permanently engaged,

At the start of the pandemic they were praised for having so few cases you "couldn't even call it an epidemic", and the contact tracing system was seen as key to keeping it that way. Then things got out of control.

On the tracing side of things specifically, they were one of Europe's front-runners.

But it is the Czech Republic that leads the pack when it comes to “fast-track” COVID-19 measures.

The country was one of the first EU member states to declare a state of emergency, on March 12. And only a week later, it became the first EU country to make it mandatory for everyone to wear face masks in public.

The Czech tech sector was also quick to act. In mid-March, the country’s largest search engine, Seznam, introduced a coronavirus tracing feature on its geolocation app, Maps.cz. With a user’s permission, it draws on location data to inform people if they have crossed paths with anyone who has tested positive.

A month later, the Czech Health Ministry released a Bluetooth-based social tracing app known as eRouska (eMask). The app anonymously detects pairings among different devices on which the app has been installed. Similar technology is now being developed all across Europe.

The app is integrated into a more complex solution called the Smart Quarantine, which combines data from cell phones and payment cards. With a user’s permission, local hygiene stations can use this data to isolate individuals who have come into contact with infected people.

Jan Kulveit, a senior researcher at the Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford University, is one of the two main strategists for the system developed by Covid19.cz, a group of Czech tech companies and IT enthusiasts working on tech-based solutions out of the current crisis. He said developing an app is the easy part.

“The tricky part is to ensure that these technical solutions are somehow integrated into a system that local hygiene stations can obtain information from, and then act upon,” he said in a phone interview.

“In this sense, the Czech Republic is a few weeks ahead of Germany and most other European countries. We’re actually currently in contact with several countries who expressed their interest in our model.”

I am not saying the test and trace system is working well now in the UK. I'm saying the contact tracing aspect of the system cannot work well under these conditions. The problem is there are too many cases in your area, every day, for those people to process all of those contacts. It is physically impossible with the current numbers, no systematic updates would change that, the financial costs to resolve that would be so absurd, and the recruitment and training lead times would be so impractical, that it will always be that way.

What we should be holding the government accountable for is letting cases get out of control. Contact tracing plays a minor role in preventing that, no matter where you look in the West, and no role in solving that after it happens. It will be the same in Italy if they lose control again, and contact tracing will not stop that from happening. It is the same in every other country experiencing a surge now, and that's a lot. Germany is an absolute exception, and they haven't experienced that problem. That is not because of their contact tracing system.

Testing is different. There is more of a disparity there, and it is more important, and the UK were much worse at it in the beginning and are still not very good at it now. They are very far from the worst, and the desire to call the UK's current testing situation an embarrassment with no recognition for how that sounds in other countries who are working with an inferior system, is more than a little insensitive IMO.

Maybe it's worth having a listen to what @Sarni's country are experiencing right now. It is not uncommon for people in the UK to think their problems are more important, or more severe, than others, and that attitude stems from something important that features in all kinds of problems in how the UK, as both a government and a society, have responded to it. But that wasn't the point you made, nor the one I challenged.

 

[massi83]

132 dead yesterday. Over 500 total this week. All ICUs across the country are full, in some areas if you have heart attack you are dead as they won't even attempt to help you anymore as they don't have ambulances.

Yeah, but @Hanks scored with Leeds lass.

 

[massi83]

@Brwned about Czech: I was there in early March and mid July as I see a czech girl at times. The reason why they did well in the first wave was because they acted early. Early lockdown, travel restrictions, mask rules from the start. Nothing to do with test and trace.

Then after coming out of lockdown the mood in the country was that "we beat covid" which was ridiculous of course. And it didn't help that billionaire PM didn't listen to the health officials.

Having been spared in the first wave they didn’t think it could hit them like this. Lacking that experience they would have needed strong leadership in taking action already about 1-2 months ago. Now they test positive about 30 % of the time. Test and trace is meaningless at that point.

 

[Brwned]

@Brwned about Czech: I was there in early March and mid July as I see a czech girl at times. The reason why they did well in the first wave was because they acted early. Early lockdown, travel restrictions, mask rules from the start. Nothing to do with test and trace.

Then after coming out of lockdown the mood in the country was that "we beat covid" which was ridiculous of course. And it didn't help that billionaire PM didn't listen to the health officials.

Having been spared in the first wave they didn’t think it could hit them like this. Lacking that experience they would have needed strong leadership in taking action already about 1-2 months ago. Now they test positive about 30 % of the time. Test and trace is meaningless at that point.

Yes I agree.

I was there the day they were closing borders, when they were praised for their proactive action. But there was the suggestion that contact tracing played a role in keeping things under control, while people were acting more freely than most countries, and after being out of lockdown for a longer period. The restrictions disappeared but the cases didn't explode. It's when people were struggling to find good explanations for countries that were "handling this". And given they started early on the tech, it was plausible that it played a role in keeping a lid on things.

In the end the central Europeans were lucky in the first wave and less lucky in the second wave. Government restrictions mitigate that but less than people wanted to believe first time round, IMO. They already had evidence that the citizens had the same compliance issues every other country has had, in the right conditions. They just managed to avoid them for a while.

 

[Sarni]

Yeah, but @Hanks scored with Leeds lass.

Well it's not like people in Poland treat this seriously either. They all think it's people dying from other causes and doctors signing them off as covid to get more money and chip us with a vaccine.

 

[Tibs]

The problem all sides have had, is to slow the spread the extra measures haven't been in place, or ignored, because the situation wasn't that bad.

Now the problems all sides have, is it is quickly getting out of hand, and they don't know what to do, and even they got a plan together, would they have the will to implement it?

I know it's been said a million times but it comes down to terrible leadership - and maybe we as a country deserve it for electing this cnut, I mean even now, he'd still probably win looking at the polls.

But anyway, my fear now, is that a circuit breaker will happen, but, it will be a super soft version when lots of things remain open. Needs to be strict as feck, takea 2 week hit, and then let Retail keep the economy going until mid-Jan

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

@Brwned

Our testing is shot. I got my result back today. 5 days. Result? Inconclusive.

I have been isolating with my partner for those 5 days.

My last outing was to a pub on Saturday. All four of us checked in using the App.

I advised my two friends. One is a builder and can’t work from home. But he rode to work this week instead of taking the tube, wore a mask at work and advised the other two people on site of his situation. His partner worked from home this week.

The App hasn’t alerted any of them that they’ve spent time with someone that has logged two of three symptoms. I can’t log an inconclusive test result for some reason.

This is 5 days. We’re all like minded and affluent individuals so I don’t think the impact is too bad. But what if all four of us had a job that meant we had to work with others?

This is not anecdotal evidence. This is evidencing example. There are countless stories like this.

You seem to be fixated on the numbers and percentages and who’s doing better.

The absolute core fundamentals of our system are broken. There are no examples of this System working for the majority. Fcuk loads of people are dead. The devil does not need an advocate here.

I’m not shouting at a wall, I’m pissed off. Everyone should be. The people we trust to look after society have failed us. Looking for cracks of daylight as we continue to be covered in an ever increasing pile of rubble is not helpful to anyone.

You’re suggesting that we support and buy into a narrative that is ‘Some are doing worse, few are doing better’.

Fcuk. That.

Shouldn’t your mate be self isolating at home instead of working at the site? Surely he doesn’t need an app to tell him that?

 

[711]

Shouldn’t your mate be self isolating at home instead of working at the site? Surely he doesn’t need an app to tell him that?

The NHS website says:

If you think you've been in contact with someone who has coronavirus, but you do not have symptoms and have not been told to self-isolate, continue to follow social distancing advice.

So in the absence of symptoms it seems he doesn't have to self isolate, rightly or wrongly.

 

[Bosws87]

Whole thing is beyond a joke, should be made to walk the people in charge.

 

[Shane88]

Disappointed by how shit we seem to be doing in Ireland. NPHET recommending 6 weeks in level 5 lockdown today.

I'm sure there will be a compromise but it's still more restrictions.

 

[acnumber9]

Whole thing is beyond a joke, should be made to walk the people in charge.

I know there’s bigger issues at hand but mayors of cities shouldn’t be saying things like “more safer.”

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

@Brwned

Mate, we’ve had 10 months.

You’ve accused me of shouting at a wall.

I fully expect a system that can scale. Ours doesn’t work. Let alone scale.

Yes some systems can’t meet capacity. Yes there will be resistance to adoption. Yes there will be mistakes.

But Our government tells everyone we have a world leading test, track and trace service. That we have the capacity to test 350,000 a day.

The reality is that Our testing system is on its knees at 5 figure outputs. Has Throttled access points. It’s late. Costs more than most of Europe’s system COMBINED. It’s an abject failure.

Pointing out small countries inability to scale is foolhardy.

My brother in law lives in Baden-Wuttenburg and has a lot of friends in Bavaria. Their lived experience in Germany is night and day from us

Some regions have had some issues. But one regions issues don’t feck up the whole country because they’re decentralised.

You keep suggesting that other countries contract tracing systems don’t work. You’re using stats like number of contacts contacted. You’re missing out the key qualifier of time. Every day counts. Numbers get big so damn quick.

25% of test results inside 24 hours, coupled with an ill-functioning app and poor contact tracing.

vs

75% of test results inside 24 hours, coupled to a functioning app and functioning contact tracing.

Those Two scenarios lead to wildly different outcomes.

We are still trumpeting number of tests. Why? Raise the threshold to get a test in order to lower the burden on labs, in order to return results faster. In order to start contact tracing sooner.

The government is still talking about getting to half a million tests a day. There’s no fecking point in that. They chase headlines. We can’t process that level of test output. If we manage to get to that number we can’t run a successful contact tracing system.

It’s a public health crisis, you’re often borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. But why do we as a country not have the humility to just copy off the brightest kids in class. You know half the cabinet has done that for their whole life.

You and I aren’t really at odds. I just object to any kind of defence of £12 Billion resulting in this. Better performing countries are yet to push through £1 Billion in expenditure.

Ach, burn it all down.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Shouldn’t your mate be self isolating at home instead of working at the site? Surely he doesn’t need an app to tell him that?

You want him to take a financial hit because he sat at a pub table with me for two hours and I have a fever and a cough?

Me too.

But only after the government has tested me, given me a positive test inside a day and communicated that to him. Then financially supported him.

Like Fcuk are people going to voluntarily give up real money for this government. Never happening.

Disclaimer : This is obviously different by case. If he was working as a professional hugger it would be very different to justify.

 

[Brwned]

@Brwned

Mate, we’ve had 10 months.

You’ve accused me of shouting at a wall.

I fully expect a system that can scale. Ours doesn’t work. Let alone scale.

Yes some systems can’t meet capacity. Yes there will be resistance to adoption. Yes there will be mistakes.

But Our government tells everyone we have a world leading test, track and trace service. That we have the capacity to test 350,000 a day.

The reality is that Our testing system is on its knees at 5 figure outputs. Has Throttled access points. It’s late. Costs more than most of Europe’s system COMBINED. It’s an abject failure.

Pointing out small countries inability to scale is foolhardy.

My brother in law lives in Baden-Wuttenburg and has a lot of friends in Bavaria. Their lived experience in Germany is night and day from us

Some regions have had some issues. But one regions issues don’t feck up the whole country because they’re decentralised.

You keep suggesting that other countries contract tracing systems don’t work. You’re using stats like number of contacts contacted. You’re missing out the key qualifier of time. Every day counts. Numbers get big so damn quick.

25% of test results inside 24 hours, coupled with an ill-functioning app and poor contact tracing.

vs

75% of test results inside 24 hours, coupled to a functioning app and functioning contact tracing.

Those Two scenarios lead to wildly different outcomes.

We are still trumpeting number of tests. Why? Raise the threshold to get a test in order to lower the burden on labs, in order to return results faster. In order to start contact tracing sooner.

The government is still talking about getting to half a million tests a day. There’s no fecking point in that. They chase headlines. We can’t process that level of test output. If we manage to get to that number we can’t run a successful contact tracing system.

It’s a public health crisis, you’re often borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. But why do we as a country not have the humility to just copy off the brightest kids in class. You know half the cabinet has done that for their whole life.

You and I aren’t really at odds. I just object to any kind of defence of £12 Billion resulting in this. Better performing countries are yet to push through £1 Billion in expenditure.

Ach, burn it all down.

I am not defending the system. The system doesn't work. There is no evidence that any tracing system works when the virus spread this much. Demanding it does work seems kind of pointless if it cannot possibly work under those conditions, and there is no evidence that it has worked in France, Italy, Spain and various other countries of the same size, with the same conditions. It has also failed in smaller countries, with both better conditions and worse conditions. And because we have limited resources and limited time, it is not just pointless but counterproductive and harmful.

The only suggested exception to that is Germany, but Germany haven't had case levels ever reach that level, so we don't know how they would respond once they pass whatever that threshold is. They have been exceptional in other aspects, so it's possible they could be here too. But if it is impossible to recreate their conditions in the midst of a pandemic, then it serves only as a reminder for what we should aim for in terms of preparedness next time, not a good role model for now. In that scenario, the UK would just have to accept they're worse, and will always be worse in this pandemic, no amount of money or expert execution could change that. But British exceptionalism makes that a difficult pill to swallow.

But no-one has provided the evidence that Germany are better prepared for contact tracing if it reaches that level. I've already provided a study that hints that they're not, and people just glide right by it, because it doesn't fit their narrative. I would be keen to see some evidence that presents a different side to that story.

It is unquestionable that their testing regime is better than the UK's, and all of their peers. That doesn't in any way mean that their tracing system is better than all of their peers. It just means they are better supported. It is a big part of the reason why they haven't had to deal with the overwhelming situation the "hopeless" UK tracing system has had to contend with. And that's what this conversation was about. They are two components of a system that work together, but they're different components.

But there's no point in talking past each other, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

The NHS website says:

If you think you've been in contact with someone who has coronavirus, but you do not have symptoms and have not been told to self-isolate, continue to follow social distancing advice.

So in the absence of symptoms it seems he doesn't have to self isolate, rightly or wrongly.

Hmm OK, what’s the point of the track and trace app then because everyone should be social distancing anyway?

 

[jeff_goldblum]

In the rest of Europe does each country have its own track and trace system? Because if so they're likely compromised in the same way the UK and ROI systems are in Ireland. People who live on one side of a border will have contacts on either side (maybe they work, shop, socialise etc. on the other side of the border to where they live) but when they get a positive test on their country's system only their contacts on that side of the border get told.

Mainland Britain doesn't have a bunch of untraceable people popping over every day to compromise the system.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

@Brwned about Czech: I was there in early March and mid July as I see a czech girl at times. The reason why they did well in the first wave was because they acted early. Early lockdown, travel restrictions, mask rules from the start. Nothing to do with test and trace.

Then after coming out of lockdown the mood in the country was that "we beat covid" which was ridiculous of course. And it didn't help that billionaire PM didn't listen to the health officials.

Having been spared in the first wave they didn’t think it could hit them like this. Lacking that experience they would have needed strong leadership in taking action already about 1-2 months ago. Now they test positive about 30 % of the time. Test and trace is meaningless at that point.

I'm frequently in Prague/the Czech Republic (last time in mid September) so I could see the development in stages. The one thing I didn't understand is why they lifted the mandatory mask rule in supermarkets and public transport (apart from the metro). That really sent the wrong signal.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

132 dead yesterday. Over 500 total this week. All ICUs across the country are full, in some areas if you have heart attack you are dead as they won't even attempt to help you anymore as they don't have ambulances.

Is that definitely true? Sounds horrific. How on earth are the “just a flu” cretins squaring that with their beliefs?

 

[massi83]

I'm frequently in Prague/the Czech Republic (last time in mid September) so I could see the development in stages. The one thing I didn't understand is why they lifted the mandatory mask rule in supermarkets and public transport (apart from the metro). That really sent the wrong signal.

Yes. It was very easy to see that they would end up in this situation. Should have started to act already 6 weeks ago. And problem for them is, that it is the whole country with similar figures, not just Prague.

 

[Sarni]

Is that definitely true? Sounds horrific. How on earth are the “just a flu” cretins squaring that with their beliefs?

Apparently it is but fortunately I haven't been able to verify. Lots of noises from medical staff saying similar things though.

They think it's conspiracy to depopulate Earth by not providing people with medical assistance and explaining that with false pandemic. Morons.

 

[711]

Hmm OK, what’s the point of the track and trace app then because everyone should be social distancing anyway?

Nobody knows. And I don't know in this particular case whether the advice from the app would have been any different, because virtually no one has ever had any advice anyway.

I think the phrase is 'hope that helps'.

 

[golden_blunder]

Whole thing is beyond a joke, should be made to walk the people in charge.

Soon we will have non-league restriction tables

 

[Fluctuation0161]

@Brwned

Mate, we’ve had 10 months.

You’ve accused me of shouting at a wall.

I fully expect a system that can scale. Ours doesn’t work. Let alone scale.

Yes some systems can’t meet capacity. Yes there will be resistance to adoption. Yes there will be mistakes.

But Our government tells everyone we have a world leading test, track and trace service. That we have the capacity to test 350,000 a day.

The reality is that Our testing system is on its knees at 5 figure outputs. Has Throttled access points. It’s late. Costs more than most of Europe’s system COMBINED. It’s an abject failure.

Pointing out small countries inability to scale is foolhardy.

My brother in law lives in Baden-Wuttenburg and has a lot of friends in Bavaria. Their lived experience in Germany is night and day from us

Some regions have had some issues. But one regions issues don’t feck up the whole country because they’re decentralised.

You keep suggesting that other countries contract tracing systems don’t work. You’re using stats like number of contacts contacted. You’re missing out the key qualifier of time. Every day counts. Numbers get big so damn quick.

25% of test results inside 24 hours, coupled with an ill-functioning app and poor contact tracing.

vs

75% of test results inside 24 hours, coupled to a functioning app and functioning contact tracing.

Those Two scenarios lead to wildly different outcomes.

We are still trumpeting number of tests. Why? Raise the threshold to get a test in order to lower the burden on labs, in order to return results faster. In order to start contact tracing sooner.

The government is still talking about getting to half a million tests a day. There’s no fecking point in that. They chase headlines. We can’t process that level of test output. If we manage to get to that number we can’t run a successful contact tracing system.

It’s a public health crisis, you’re often borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. But why do we as a country not have the humility to just copy off the brightest kids in class. You know half the cabinet has done that for their whole life.

You and I aren’t really at odds. I just object to any kind of defence of £12 Billion resulting in this. Better performing countries are yet to push through £1 Billion in expenditure.

Ach, burn it all down.

Totally agree.

I cant understand how anyone is blaming the concept of test and trace instead of the UK's terrible handling of this pandemic. It is beyond logic.

 

[sammsky1]

Has there been any legitimate studies that guesstimated what the actual new caseload per day was in UK during March/April?

We were told in those days only to go to hospital if we had serious pre deathly symptoms, so vast majority of those infected would have recovered by staying isolated at home and their cases would not have been recorded. Some sources say it was 100k cases per day vs the 5,00o per day that were recorded. ?

That's different to now, as I imagine a majority of cases are now being picked up?

 

[Jippy]

 

[calodo2003]

 

[Brwned]

Totally agree.

I cant understand how anyone is blaming the concept of test and trace instead of the UK's terrible handling of this pandemic. It is beyond logic.

Saying a programme has limitations, based on observable evidence, is not blaming a concept. It's an attempt to reckon with the reality of that concept. It is entirely logical that a programme would have limitations, and we would get the clearest evidence of it once it is executed rather than how it was first conceived. That's why it only forms a small part of the strategy. If your idea of that concept was closer to reality then you would have a long list of countries proving how it has worked significantly better, clearly showing that the implementation was the problem, not the inherent limitations of the programme.

 

[sammsky1]

quite insane/insightful.

Do you think its because republicans in those states have followed Trumps advice and not CDC/Fauci?

 

[calodo2003]

quite insane/insightful.

Do you think its because republicans in those states have followed Trumps advice and not CDC/Fauci?

That’s definitely part of it. Toss in the batshittery shoveled down the gullets of the koolaid drinkers regarding masks / social distancing. The populace in these states are equally as culpable as the leaders.

Such a turnaround from when it was blue states primarily affected & from when the White House altered its plans for help due to only blue states being affected was a safe prop bet.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

‘Grim beyond belief’: Serco profits to surge as Test and Trace records worst ever week

Outsourcing firm expects bumper revenues as Covid-19 case numbers surge and millions of people face tougher lockdown conditions that threaten thousands of jobs


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...test-trace-contract-outsourcing-b1072309.html

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Cool graphic but the most striking thing to me is that it seems to start off with twice as many Democratic states at the beginning as there are at the end.

What’s going on there?

 

[F-Red]

I have the covid19 app from the NHS, just had my first alert saying that I could have had contact with someone that has been tested positive, and then very quickly come back with another notification saying that they've concluded I wasn't around them for long enough so it's no issue. Annoyingly, going into the app shows no mention of this at all!

 

[sammsky1]

That’s definitely part of it. Toss in the batshittery shoveled down the gullets of the koolaid drinkers regarding masks / social distancing. The populace in these states are equally as culpable as the leaders.

Such a turnaround from when it was blue states primarily affected & from when the White House altered its plans for help due to only blue states being affected was a safe prop bet.

Isn’t that the same thing? Trump doesn’t wear a mask so his ideologues do the same? Over time that will have a differentiating impact?

 

[fergieisold]

I have the covid19 app from the NHS, just had my first alert saying that I could have had contact with someone that has been tested positive, and then very quickly come back with another notification saying that they've concluded I wasn't around them for long enough so it's no issue. Annoyingly, going into the app shows no mention of this at all!

At least you got the second notification! Many people just get the potential Covid exposure and then...nothing. No messages in the app etc.

 

[calodo2003]

Cool graphic but the most striking thing to me is that it seems to start off with twice as many Democratic states at the beginning as there are at the end.

What’s going on there?

Large population centers on the coasts, large cities in general. Seattle was our first case, west coast had proximity to China, NYC & DC with their obvious international makeup. Now the land is catching up with the cities.

 

[F-Red]

At least you got the second notification! Many people just get the potential Covid exposure and then...nothing. No messages in the app etc.

Weirdly my other half had the same notifications, but overnight whilst we was asleep. Considering the proximity to her, I don't know why it's waited for a good 9-12hrs to update me.

 

[calodo2003]

Isn’t that the same thing? Trump doesn’t wear a mask so his ideologues do the same? Over time that will have a differentiating impact?

For the most part, definitely. But, one has to have a different brain alignment to be one of the sheep. Call it simple stupidity, aggressive ignorance, flawed hubris, whatever, it’s just a different brain. They aren’t innocent in the process & solely led by the big bad government.