Saido Berahino

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Really other than Bobby Charlton who has actually seriously called Phil Jones the new Duncan Edwards?

Ah my bad, I remember Fergie mentioning it but did not realise he was just reiterating what Sir Bobby had said.
I guess if anyone is going to be able to compare its him, he should be putting his hand up now and admitting he couldn't have been more wrong unless Edwards was known for his suicidal tackles, dodgy positional sense and terrible injury record.
 
;) I just wanted to rile you up a little. Couple of times I have read you refer O'Shea as a legend as a swipe at others and Fergie, which peeved me a little as I thought it was unfair to one of the better squad players we have had. Every team needs a player like him; a selfless player who is ready to perform in whichever position, whenever the manager wants. Those qualities need to be appreciated a little more. A squad cannot contain 25 superstars, who all want to play every week.

No hard feelings, please. :)

And come on, O'Shea didn't make Falcao look good. Falcao pulled an absolute piece of magic from a locker which he has rarely opened at United. O'Shea made Falcao look like United Falcao for most of the game.

I can understand the frustration with Anderson and with Smalling/Jones, though I do not agree that the reason for the current mess is keeping the squad players for too long. The problem has been throwing money around like lottery winners combined with terrible planning. We have spend close to 250m pounds since Fergie retired and when I go read the "Summer spending" threads there is a clamour to sign 5 or 6 top quality players, and with in good reason too. Despite of our massive spend and wage bill, we still need first choice RB, CB's, a Carrick replacement, a striker and a winger. That is a bigger issue, imo.

Why do we need to reinforce so many positions despite buying 7 players at an average of 35m each in the last three transfer windows? Did anyone stop Moyes and Van Gaal from buying a top quality CB or CM? Were any of our squad players such as Valencia, Young, Smalling or Jones reasons for us not to upgrade? I don't believe the answer to any of those questions is a yes. It's Woodard and his two managers ineptness that has got us to this position, imo.

No one is saying that we should have 25 superstars. You don't even have to have 11 of them to be honest. Cole and Yorke weren't world class and they were much more effective then our star studded forward line. Bruce and Pally weren't even close to the world class defenders of their own generation but they were solid as a rock. The secret is not having 25 superstars but to have 25 players who got the hunger and talent to seriously compete for a first team place. Every minute of first team football counts for them because that goal, that great tackle may be enough to earn them a regular first team place. Once we say oh well this player is good enough for cover, then that's the moment that player should leave. The reason being that that particular player will be sucking valuable game time to talent who have actually the chance of becoming first teamers.

In my opinion we've become to complacent and sentimental in the last few years. We're a top top club, not a retiring home for old players, a hospital, a storage of average players or a fun place for funny players. As Scholes said, something is terribly wrong when the top club's best CM are 36 and 40 years old respectively. If a 23-24 something defender/midfielder can't at least challenge a 34+ year old Rio/Vidic/Giggs/Scholes etc for a first team place then how the hell we're expecting him to take over once the old guard retires? What's the point in keeping them there in the first place? I mean since we're sitting on a time bomb, we might as well use the limited time we've got to find the quality players we will soon need and allow them to bed in. These players may have been new signings or youth talent (Pogba did leave because he wasn't given enough first team opportunities).

PS OShea does tend to get the best out of forwards. Is that Politically correct enough for you?;)
 
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Many fans rated Jones much higher then he actually was/is. I find it damaging not only for our own credibility (we look Rawkish) but also to the player himself. A 20 something year old should be challenged to become better and reminded that nothing can be taken for granted. One mistake coupled by another defender's good performance is enough for him to lose his first team place. These silly comparisons and overratingness give young players the impression that they have already made it.

You see, many think that I am anti British or anti homegrown talent. They couldn't be more wrong. Giving games to average players because they are 'homegrown' or lovely lads, doesn't make them good. OShea has hundreds of caps with United but that didn't stop him from doing a school boy error by clattering Falcao into the box. Anderson played multiple times at United and look were he is now. What makes kids better is by keeping them on their toes. No wonder why the best talent in the 92 team happen to be the one who was mostly challenged in his career (too small pre 13 yrs old, asthma after 13 years of age, having to move from striker to midfield in his 20s, JSV signing, Ando, Carrick, Hargreaves etc signing etc)

You really think Jones is reading this crap? I really hope he isn't. You may think you are doing God's work by calling out our players but, they probably are not reading this stuff. We are just some dudes talking about Football it is not that serious.
 
You really think Jones is reading this crap? I really hope he isn't. You may think you are doing God's work by calling out our players but, they probably are not reading this stuff. We are just some dudes talking about Football it is not that serious.

Erm where have I said that Jones are reading my posts?
 
Ah my bad, I remember Fergie mentioning it but did not realise he was just reiterating what Sir Bobby had said.
I guess if anyone is going to be able to compare its him, he should be putting his hand up now and admitting he couldn't have been more wrong unless Edwards was known for his suicidal tackles, dodgy positional sense and terrible injury record.

He said Phil Jones reminded him of Duncan Edwards when it came to his power and build.
 
Yeah so this Saido fella.... Still think his all round game isn't enough for United.
 
I'd be happy if we stick English, it would be nice to see him progress into a really good player. He'd add the pace we need up top, that's for sure. I agree, I'm undecided about his all round game though.
 
Possible option for this could be Berahino to United and Wilson to WBA on loan for a season?
 
Yeah so this Saido fella.... Still think his all round game isn't enough for United.

He's two footed, pacy, packs a powerful shot and links up play very well. He's exactly the type of player we need.
 
He's two footed, pacy, packs a powerful shot and links up play very well. He's exactly the type of player we need.

This.

I like him and if he joins Liverpool, Spurs etc they will improve, just like we would if he joined us.
I think Wilson needs to be loaned out next season to another premiership team. With Falcao looking certain to go and RvP general fitness issues and age I think he would be a great signing, yes there are strikers being mentioned in in other leagues but with this boy being used to the premiership and being English I think it makes sense - I know this is high praise but his finishing reminds me of a young Robbie Fowler although not left footed like him.
 
One thing I've noticed about the english people on this forum is that they love to underrate the english talent coming through. This isn't the time where there was nothing coming through the ranks and the likes of milner, downing and young were able to steal a few caps despite being limited footballers. This is a time when england is stacked with fantastic young english talent that have that world class potential everyone craves. Look at the ones that have broken through already and its easy to see that the standards are going up on a year to year basis. Sadly enough it seems that this attitude that the fans have, is the same that the people in charge with developing these lads have. Many great prospects are currently stuck in loan systems or the reserves and haven't gotten a taste of first team football. Look at the ones that have broken through and see what they themselves are producing. Producing much better than these signings made from exotic countries for loads of dosh.

Kane, Berahino, Stones and Sterling are all producing the goods. The difference between them and the other not so highly rated youngsters is that they got their chance to prove themselves. Look at how Ibe even being played in something that's not really his natural position is playing. Even these lads that have broken through and are producing the goods on a week to week basis are being underrated greatly by everyone. Some still aren't convinced by sturridge despite how long he's been getting it done.

Berahino is a god damn good footballer and if we can we should get him in. He's got fantastic potential and anyone that says otherwise just isn't watching enough west brom matches. His finishing is probably the best in the league ffs. He also isn't a limited player as some somehow seem to think. He's fantastic on the turn and has great pace and strength. He works hard and has shown great discipline under Tony Pulis. He's playing as a second striker and making it look easy ffs.
 
Can score goals, has pace to burn, can run with the ball at his feet and his link up play seems to be up to scratch. I don't see how this guy isn't an upgrade on the old guard we currently have other than their reputation. Would love to see him here next season.
 
One thing I've noticed about the english people on this forum is that they love to underrate the english talent coming through. This isn't the time where there was nothing coming through the ranks and the likes of milner, downing and young were able to steal a few caps despite being limited footballers. This is a time when england is stacked with fantastic young english talent that have that world class potential everyone craves. Look at the ones that have broken through already and its easy to see that the standards are going up on a year to year basis. Sadly enough it seems that this attitude that the fans have, is the same that the people in charge with developing these lads have. Many great prospects are currently stuck in loan systems or the reserves and haven't gotten a taste of first team football. Look at the ones that have broken through and see what they themselves are producing. Producing much better than these signings made from exotic countries for loads of dosh.

Kane, Berahino, Stones and Sterling are all producing the goods. The difference between them and the other not so highly rated youngsters is that they got their chance to prove themselves. Look at how Ibe even being played in something that's not really his natural position is playing. Even these lads that have broken through and are producing the goods on a week to week basis are being underrated greatly by everyone. Some still aren't convinced by sturridge despite how long he's been getting it done.

I actually agree with a lot of this but, I do not think Berahino is on the same level as the other three mentioned.
 
This.

I like him and if he joins Liverpool, Spurs etc they will improve, just like we would if he joined us.
I think Wilson needs to be loaned out next season to another premiership team. With Falcao looking certain to go and RvP general fitness issues and age I think he would be a great signing, yes there are strikers being mentioned in in other leagues but with this boy being used to the premiership and being English I think it makes sense - I know this is high praise but his finishing reminds me of a young Robbie Fowler although not left footed like him.

I totally agree!

@RooneyLegend top post!

I actually agree with a lot of this but, I do not think Berahino is on the same level as the other three mentioned.

How so?
 
I actually agree with a lot of this but, I do not think Berahino is on the same level as the other three mentioned.
You can only compare him with players in the same position so that has to rule out Stones. Only Ings and Austin along with Kane bear comparison. He's better than the former 2 but not on the same level yet as Kane. However this is Kanes first season being so prolific. Berahino has been scoring at all the levels he's played at for 2 seasons now. He has the potential to be as good as Andy Cole given the right team and coaching
 
One thing I've noticed about the english people on this forum is that they love to underrate the english talent coming through. This isn't the time where there was nothing coming through the ranks and the likes of milner, downing and young were able to steal a few caps despite being limited footballers. This is a time when england is stacked with fantastic young english talent that have that world class potential everyone craves. Look at the ones that have broken through already and its easy to see that the standards are going up on a year to year basis. Sadly enough it seems that this attitude that the fans have, is the same that the people in charge with developing these lads have. Many great prospects are currently stuck in loan systems or the reserves and haven't gotten a taste of first team football. Look at the ones that have broken through and see what they themselves are producing. Producing much better than these signings made from exotic countries for loads of dosh.

Kane, Berahino, Stones and Sterling are all producing the goods. The difference between them and the other not so highly rated youngsters is that they got their chance to prove themselves. Look at how Ibe even being played in something that's not really his natural position is playing. Even these lads that have broken through and are producing the goods on a week to week basis are being underrated greatly by everyone. Some still aren't convinced by sturridge despite how long he's been getting it done.

Berahino is a god damn good footballer and if we can we should get him in. He's got fantastic potential and anyone that says otherwise just isn't watching enough west brom matches. His finishing is probably the best in the league ffs. He also isn't a limited player as some somehow seem to think. He's fantastic on the turn and has great pace and strength. He works hard and has shown great discipline under Tony Pulis. He's playing as a second striker and making it look easy ffs.

No Barkley in that list no? We don't underrate players, we are just realistic. The quality in England is okay nothing more.. These players mentioned are okay. Only Sterling I would consider a real talent.. The rest can go either way.

As for Saido he has good attributes just feel we need more. He will be a big risk as he has a lot to learn and we provide a platform with a lot of pressure at the minute, which I feel requires a striker of more natural talent.
 
One thing I've noticed about the english people on this forum is that they love to underrate the english talent coming through. This isn't the time where there was nothing coming through the ranks and the likes of milner, downing and young were able to steal a few caps despite being limited footballers.
I agree with much of what you said but not this second sentence. Milner and Young aren't limited footballers and they also haven't stolen a few caps, unless a few now means over 50. Milner was a great midfielder for Villa and has been great wherever he has been asked to play for City. You don't make 40+ appearances and be an important player for the league champions if you are limited. Don't let his hardworking style fool you, he is a good footballer. Young players like Berahino will be lucky to have careers like Milner.
 
I don't think we underrate English players at all, many here rate Stones and most rate Kane and Sterling and would likely be happy with the signing of any of them.
 
I agree with much of what you said but not this second sentence. Milner and Young aren't limited footballers and they also haven't stolen a few caps, unless a few now means over 50. Milner was a great midfielder for Villa and has been great wherever he has been asked to play for City. You don't make 40+ appearances and be an important player for the league champions if you are limited. Don't let his hardworking style fool you, he is a good footballer. Young players like Berahino will be lucky to have careers like Milner.
Them having that many caps just drives my point home. Milner is a limited player and was never a great midfielder. Increase the standard and he looks mediocre because of how limited he is. Berahino should be greatly disappointed if all he can achieve in his career is being a squad player.
 
No Barkley in that list no? We don't underrate players, we are just realistic. The quality in England is okay nothing more.. These players mentioned are okay. Only Sterling I would consider a real talent.. The rest can go either way.

As for Saido he has good attributes just feel we need more. He will be a big risk as he has a lot to learn and we provide a platform with a lot of pressure at the minute, which I feel requires a striker of more natural talent.
Exactly my point, you saying sterling is the only real talent is telling me that you're stuck in that zone where England was producing mediocre players.

Was to lazy to list all of the great talents around. Imo he's every bit as naturally talented as falcao, and convincing me that prime falcao wouldn't have been good enough for our club would be a tall order. His upside is that big and I don't see why he'd need more natural talent to cut it at a big club.
 
Them having that many caps just drives my point home. Milner is a limited player and was never a great midfielder. Increase the standard and he looks mediocre because of how limited he is. Berahino should be greatly disappointed if all he can achieve in his career is being a squad player.
Berahino will be disappointed if all he does is regularly play for a team who wins the league twice in three years? Yeah, ok. You clearly know nothing about Milner's game either.
 
Might as well change our objectives to 7th place then.

:rolleyes: If his name was Manuel Michel Rodriguez or something along those lines you wouldn't be saying that. I get fed up with the constant belittling of English players. Berahino has been very impressive at West Brom, no disrespect to them but if we went to a bigger club I think he will become even better simply because he's playing with better players.
 
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:rolleyes: If his name was Manual Michel Rodriguez or something along those lines you wouldn't be saying that. I get fed up with the constant belittling of English players. Berahino has been very impressive at West Brom, no disrespect to them but if we went to a bigger club I think he will become even better simply because he's playing with better players.

:lol:
 
Berahino will be disappointed if all he does is regularly play for a team who wins the league twice in three years? Yeah, ok. You clearly know nothing about Milner's game either.
If he becomes a squaddie who's always brought in to do a 'job' at any team he should be disappointed, he's got a much higher ceiling than that.

What are these great things that he contributes to teams that I don't know about?
 
No Barkley in that list no? We don't underrate players, we are just realistic. The quality in England is okay nothing more.. These players mentioned are okay. Only Sterling I would consider a real talent.. The rest can go either way.

As for Saido he has good attributes just feel we need more. He will be a big risk as he has a lot to learn and we provide a platform with a lot of pressure at the minute, which I feel requires a striker of more natural talent.
Was to lazy to list all the great talents around in english football hence no mention of wilshere, barkley or morrison. The level of english talent was low for ages, so in a way I understand the where it comes from, its just really disappointing.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the fact that we need more than what Berahino offers.
 
I can see us doing a lot worse than Berahino and Danny Ings - who both have potential to be very good strikers. Berahino is fast with a good strike - Ings has a tremendous work-rate and a good eye for goal. And both can do the job as first defenders a lot better than what we have - one of our biggest problems in my opinion.

In addition they are young (21 and 22) and Ings will be very cheap (not sure about the compensation fee)
 
:rolleyes: If his name was Manuel Michel Rodriguez or something along those lines you wouldn't be saying that. I get fed up with the constant belittling of English players. Berahino has been very impressive at West Brom, no disrespect to them but if we went to a bigger club I think he will become even better simply because he's playing with better players.

Ah, the good old "not exotic enough"... I can play that game too: most people only rate him highly because he is English.


Look man, I'm not saying he will not be a good player, I'm just saying that we should aim higher and buy players that have the potential to be one of the best.

What is the point to buy players that "can do a job"? They won't be good enough to start consistently for a club that aims to be the best and they will only block places in the squad for young players that might actually have a chance to become starters for us.

Look at top English prospects like Kane or Sterling, do you think this guy is anywhere near that level?
 
I don't rate Ings that high, but about Berahino I think if we have the chance we should get him. One thin mentioned I don't agree with is sending Wilson on loan. With falcao out Rooney and RVP left, I think Rooney, Wilson and Berahino / Dybala would be more than enough to rotate and score plenty of goals. The only exception would be if LVG decides to play with one striker, and that left us with Rooney, Berahino, Wilson and RVP competing for 1 place.
 
Can someone whos familiar with him, not just looking at his black and white goal stats or what his ratings are on a football management game or what not, talk about his all-round game? does he have one? does he offer attributes to his side when he doesnt get on the scoresheet?
Welbecks biggest strength is what he brings to the team.. holding up the ball, running opposition players down and can run the channels if needed, has anyone seen enough of Berahino the last couple seasons to comment?
 
Can someone whos familiar with him, not just looking at his black and white goal stats or what his ratings are on a football management game or what not, talk about his all-round game? does he have one? does he offer attributes to his side when he doesnt get on the scoresheet?
Welbecks biggest strength is what he brings to the team.. holding up the ball, running opposition players down and can run the channels if needed, has anyone seen enough of Berahino the last couple seasons to comment?

Positives:

-Strong
-Fast
-Clinical
-Greedy

Negatives

-Doesn't have a trick
-Not intelligent away from goal
-Okay hold up play
-Goes missing a lot

Most of the negative most obviously can be improved with age.
 
Ah, the good old "not exotic enough"... I can play that game too: most people only rate him highly because he is English.


Look man, I'm not saying he will not be a good player, I'm just saying that we should aim higher and buy players that have the potential to be one of the best.

What is the point to buy players that "can do a job"? They won't be good enough to start consistently for a club that aims to be the best and they will only block places in the squad for young players that might actually have a chance to become starters for us.

Look at top English prospects like Kane or Sterling, do you think this guy is anywhere near that level?

No he's not but if at the right club and if he gets his head down who's to say he can't. I could definitely see him at either ourselves, Spurs or the scousers next season.
 
:rolleyes: If his name was Manuel Michel Rodriguez or something along those lines you wouldn't be saying that. I get fed up with the constant belittling of English players. Berahino has been very impressive at West Brom, no disrespect to them but if we went to a bigger club I think he will become even better simply because he's playing with better players.

It's a funny time to bring out the cliched foreigner crutch, I mean Berahino sounds more Brazilian than a lot the current Brazilians.
 
I actually agree with a lot of this but, I do not think Berahino is on the same level as the other three mentioned.
Only Sterling I would consider a real talent.. The rest can go either way.

As for Saido he has good attributes just feel we need more. He will be a big risk as he has a lot to learn and we provide a platform with a lot of pressure at the minute, which I feel requires a striker of more natural talent.

We don't neccasarily need players with high natural talent, we need players right now that are ready to contribute at this level. What makes Berahinho less suited than the untested players at this level like Vietto and Dybala?
 
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