He's alright, but he's nowhere near as talented as some of the other young forwards out there.
Saido Berahino
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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RVP is 31 FFS and had scored 13 goals in 33 matches this season (between club and country). If that's not good enough for us then I wonder what it is. Hernandez is not world class but had served us well in the past. If we decide to sell him then we'll probably get peanuts for him. Under such circumstances we might as well bring him back and give him a chance as 3rd-4th striker. Don't forget that we've got Rooney whose a brilliant striker in his own right.
We're not scoring enough goals and its hardly the strikers fault. I don't think that RVP, Rooney, Wilson and Falcao had suddenly lost their scoring touch (one of them might, but not all of them). In reality the team is pretty unbalanced with the defense leaking goals and the midfield not creating enough. Now if we find a truly talented striker, who will accept the bench, and wouldn't cost a fortune then we might as well sign him. Having a hierarchy would be nice as its eliminate LVG pressure to play both RVP and Rooney. Nevertheless the first priority should be to sort defense and midfield.
No one would force LVG's hand to play Hernandez ahead of Wilson. Nevertheless Hernandez is an option and Id rather see us keeping him here rather then selling him for the odd 2-3m deal. Regarding Berahino, well, its probably going to take 3-4 years before he can have a realistic chance of becoming United's first team no 9. If he can play in other positions then well and good. Not to forget that with Depay (strongly linked with us) and him we will be injecting some serious and much needed pace into this team.
Berahino would be a waste of time. He's barely an improvement on Hernandez, if at all.
We need someone who can make an immediate difference, not another English player with "potential". We have enough of those apparently.
We need someone who can make an immediate difference, not another English player with "potential". We have enough of those apparently.
I'm inclined to agree. It could be unfair on Berahino and I may be judging him more on being another English youngster, but buying these young English players with potential doesn't remotely feel like the way back to the top. It feels more like a way to complete mediocrity.
Believe it or not,every English player is different from each other.People need to judge players on their performance/abilities instead of those prejudices.
@khoazany I agree. It would seem to me that you guys would only endorse the signing of a young English player if he was already playing at a high level at a big club like Sterling or Oxlade Chamberlain. People are willing to look at foreign players with sometimes even less impressive records than their English counterparts. Why would buying an English player with potential feel less like the way back to the top compared with buying an equally promising but untested foreign player?
My problem Berahino is not that he is English. I wanted us to sign Shaw last season I want us to sign John Stones. My problem with him is I simply do not see him as a potential top class talent.
RvP's legs have gone, just like Shevchenko, and Hernandez was itchy here sitting on the bench as it was, I am pretty sure he'll want to go and we will oblige as his deficiencies don't suit LvG, we also wont get peanuts for him, we are likely to recoup what we paid for him which is fair enough.
Of course it's the strikers fault, as soon as we moved Rooney back up top we've looked much more of a threat, every time the ball comes to RvP he slows us to a stop, and every time it comes to Falcao he struggles to control it or gives it straight back where it came from. What we need is to flank Rooney with fast young wide forwards, not stockpiling #9's.
That's why we should buy a player who can play as wide forward in a front 3 now and then move to a #9 role when Rooney is not up to it anymore.
That'd be great except he wanted to leave because he didn't want to be 3rd or 4th choice, can't keep him here if he doesn't want to be here.
RVP scored more then 1 in every 3 games at a time when United is struggling to score goals. There's hardly any proof that 'his legs have gone'. Regarding Hernandez he's got a contract to respect and I wouldn't underestimate the effect a year in Real's reserve team can have on someone's self esteem. Rather then selling him now for the odd 4-5m then it maybe it would be wiser to keep him as 3rd-4th striker and allow Wilson to get the 1 year regular first team football needed elsewhere.
I agree that we should move Rooney upfront. That's a no brainer. I also think that we should revert to a 1 striker formation to add more bodies in midfield. Under such circumstances I see nothing wrong in having Rooney as first teamer + RVP, Hernandez as cover especially if we decide to retain Mata whose magnificent in the hole.
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The evidence of RvP's legs being gone are in the performances that lack running, effort, sharpness. The rest is pointless as we are basically in agreement anyway, I don't think he'll be sold and we both think we should bring in wider goal threats rather than another #9, the only difference is I'd make Wilson the #3 option and you want to bump him to #4 and keep Hernandez.
Every player can have a bad season. May I remind you that you're talking of a 31 year old striker here, whose scored 13 goals in 33 games with a team whose not playing the best of football. The year before he scored 27 goals between club and country. He may be showing signs of decline but saying that his legs have gone is a bit too tough.
I've never said that I want Wilson as 4th option. I actually hate the idea of having a hierarchy in the first place. During the treble we had 4 strikers who were rotated according to the defense we're playing against. Cole had pace, Ole was a world class finishing, Yorke had great technique and Sheringham had a great football brain. We can easily have the same thing with these 4 players (Wilson has pace, RVP and Hernandez have great finishing and Rooney is the complete striker). Alternatively we can send Wilson on loan to gain that regular first team level football he needs to get to the next level. A 1 year loan had done miracles with many players including Beckham and Welbeck. It may do the same with Wilson.
RvP's form has been poor, hes had a handful of matches, Southampton away this season, where he put in a performance worthy of his former-self, regardless of his two goals, his overall play and movement were fantastic that night, (despite the rest of the team being as hopeless as ever) and sadly the majority of his performances this season havent been anywhere near that.
As for his below aveerage scoring statistics, saying we dont provide him with enough amunition.. well that may well be true but under a David Moyes United 7th place United side, who were equally woeful if not worse in every department he managed 18 in 28, that speaks volumes to me.
Chicharito will be off this summer, hopefully we dont sell him to a PL team.
As for his below aveerage scoring statistics, saying we dont provide him with enough amunition.. well that may well be true but under a David Moyes United 7th place United side, who were equally woeful if not worse in every department he managed 18 in 28, that speaks volumes to me.
Chicharito will be off this summer, hopefully we dont sell him to a PL team.
I don't think it's too tough, I have also watched him in the qualifiers for Holland this year and he has been very poor, often outshone by Huntelaar, he is perfectly suited to Serie A at this time in his career.
There is going to be a hierarchy when Rooney is clearly miles better than the rest and we are playing a 1 striker system. Then there is a considerable gap down to Hernandez who has poor link play and Wilson who is a rookie, it's not like the 4 you are talking about where all 4 were experienced top pros. I am not sure why we are arguing anyway as Hernandez will almost certainly be sold and RvP will be kept regardless of what you or I think.
We also played with a 2 men forward line back then which made it very important to have 4 top quality strikers (ie 1 first teamer and a quality alternative). Pretty much the same would happen under my scenario (Rooney - RVP).
And we're not arguing. We're simply discussing football.
If we are only playing with 1 striker, which I agree is the way go, then we only need 3 #9's and Wilson should be the 3rd IMO with a look to him pushing past RvP.
Discussing, fair enough, but at cross purposes I feel as we don't actually disagree that much, we have a differing view on RvP but I accept he'll see out his last year here, I think the one thing is I'd rather bring in a young forward player who can play wider in the front 3 and also play as a #9, rather than buying Berahino or bringing back Hernandez who are predominantly #9s.
I do actually realise that and admit as much in my post. It's just that as a practice it never seems to work too well. There are so many examples of young English players that show promise in their late teens and then barely seem to improve at all from that level for the rest of their career. It becomes second nature to be wary of it rightly or wrongly. Obviously it also depends on price, as they are usually bought for inflated fees it increases the disappointment.
Sums it up well.
My post wasn't about him being English, it was about us signing a player with the potential to be better than what we already have, but who is currently no improvement. That isn't what we need right now. The English thing is just coincidental as that seems to be the way we have been buying recently without much success (plus they do cost more than their foreign counterparts).
Berahino can also play in a front 3 or as a 10.
We wont be using a #10 in 4-3-3 and he's not very good out wide.
Very divided opinions on the lad. But for me, for the right fee, lad is a good purchase. never seen him have a poor game, has all the attributes you'd want in a striker & is only going to get better. Has had a few issues with off field stuff, but really seems to have put that in the past.
Yeah the fee is the key point for me. I think he's got talent but there a better players out there who may be available for less or roughly the same amount.
Berahino is very talented I think, and underrated. I'd liken him to a
Sturridge, and think he could have a similar impact at the right club. He can finish, is fast and strong, and has good feet.
Sturridge, and think he could have a similar impact at the right club. He can finish, is fast and strong, and has good feet.
Sturridge isn't good enough - as a main striker - for a top club and Berahino isn't neither as good, nor as talented as Sturridge.
Anybody come up with a decent explanation as to why he was at Old Trafford with his agent??
You're one of those still unconvinced by Sturridge huh? Please don't tell me you think his goal haul last season had everything to do with Suarez.
If we want to get back to being at the top of world football, then Saido Berahino is not the answer; he's not even a stop gap. It's similar to City buying Bony; good Premier League player, but hardly going to take them to the next level.
I think someone mentioned it previously. He's the kind that Chelsea buy, and then sell on for a 10m profit.
There is nothing to be convinced. Sturridge is a great striker, but not good enough for United if we aspire to become the best team in Europe. He isn't world class, he wouldn't start for the likes of Bayern, Barca and Madrid. We need players who are either as good as the options those team have, or players who have potential to be as good. Sturridge doesn't belong to either category.
And then obviously is the problem that Berahino isn't Sturridge.
There's an interview with him on West Brom's site about his favourite things. Old Trafford is his favourite away ground, and he had a United kit when he was younger.
But he likes Rick Ross, and frankly I'm not sure I can accept that.
But he likes Rick Ross, and frankly I'm not sure I can accept that.
Do not want.
Okay I was all for signing Berahino but not now.
Well it seems like Memphis Depay is a fan of Meek Mill. That might be worse.
Without trying to sound arrogant, has he really done enough to earn a move to United? I like him and I think we need someone like him but he's not been that good this season has he? I'd be willing to risk leaving him at West Brom for another season or maybe even half a season and see if he can continue to improve.
Sturridge is obscenely selfish but I think he'll be good enough over the next 5 years (25-29) for the top clubs. Since his January 2011 loan move to Bolton he's at 55 in 103, and even with the horrific egoism in his play he creates for others a fair amount by virtue of being a lovely passer. I'd put his over/under at 2 in 3 during that time, which is definitely good enough for a top club.
Also, the right coach or the maturity from aging could teach him to pass more.
I feel we'll try and develop Wilson rather than buy a Berahino and develop him
No, I don't think he has. He's done well, but this talk of a £25m fee for him is just daft.
I want to ressurect this thread. What do people think now we're nearing the end of the season. For me I'm a firm believer that we need 4 strikers.
Rooney is no1 for me, RVP and Falcao should make way. I believe we should buy a topdraw forward (a la Muller) but I think this lad would do a job as a 3rd choice whilst giving a different option (speed). Reminds me of a very raw Saha. Wilson would be fourth for me.
Rooney is no1 for me, RVP and Falcao should make way. I believe we should buy a topdraw forward (a la Muller) but I think this lad would do a job as a 3rd choice whilst giving a different option (speed). Reminds me of a very raw Saha. Wilson would be fourth for me.
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