His all round game is inferior to both.
Saido Berahino
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His all round game is inferior to both.
lad has pace, 80+% pass rate, can lead the line & create, knows where the back of the net is & is improving. So how exactly would he make the squad worse? Please explain, I'm intrigued....
To the type of discussion that his gone on to dominate this thread. For me personally, I do not think we should move away from a British core or that the British core is the reason for the club's recent failings. But, when it comes to signing English players we need to sign players who are top class or have the potential to be top class. I really do not think Berahino has that potential. He has a decent scoring record this season but, I do not think he has the all around game or technical ability you would want as a striker at an elite club. I do not think he is on the level of the likes of Lacazette, Icardi, Dybala, etc
"He plays for West Brom and he is English", which to me doesn't really make any sense since we signed Rooney in a similar situation.
To some fans a talented Englishman is automatically worse than a foreigner
17 year old Rooney was better than what Berahino is now.
Still doesn't mean Berahino wouldn't be a good signing, i think we should go for a more proven striker though
Im guessing you watch them all on a regular basis right?
You're right. If he was South American yet still the exact same player he is and still playing for West Brom the tune would be different. 100%. I highly doubt these guys have even watched more than 5 full games involving the other players mentioned, if that. Their agents talk them up as the next Messi, Maradona though...they have to be great.
England hasn't produced a better player at 17 since Rooney at the same age. He was a freak. Terrible example
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How many times do I have to have watched them to deserve a view? I've seen Vietto and Berahino a dozen times at least this season, Villareal are on Sky most weekends. I've seen Dybala less, probably a half dozen times, but he's one of those special players that stands out IMO.
So you think a 21 year old who has reached double figures and outscored all our forwards can't improve us?
So has Charlie Austin.
Austin is 25 going on 26 though. We're going for a younger forward. You'd be better off mentioning Ings, who I like as well.
I am just saying outscoring our misfiring forwards is not a good enough reason to go buy them.
Its more than a good enough reason when the player in question meets the profile for the type of forward we need. He ticks all the boxes. They've already been mentioned but i'll list them again. Pace, linkup play, two footed, power, explosiveness, finishing, youth. These are all the things we're lacking upfront. Im not saying its a must that we sign him, im just saying he fits the profile and I wonder why some are so quick to dismiss him and more than willing to see united sign foreign players who are also upstarts and haven't achieved anything yet.
He's an ok player at the moment, we need much much more than that. We need a goalscoring machine to lift the entire team. Him, Austin, Ings are all in the same boat for me, I just can't see them replicating their form for a much bigger club.
No, I think he's a limited forward in comparison to the others we are talking about and would only be useful as a #9, a role Rooney is much better at. So bring him in to replace RvP as the #9 in a 4-3-3 system? Sure, he'll make a better deputy in terms of the fact he can run and RvP is shot, but other than that there are better options with better skill sets for the front 3 system.
Exactly what skillsets is he limited in compared to the others? His ability with both feet is actually unmatched by the other players. Berahinho has scored more with his weaker foot, even pile drivers that would make you think he's left footed. Dybala has a sweet left foot but he's very one footed. You're making some real assumptions here. Berahinho has actually played in the hole for West Brom and has done well there and he's also played on either side of the central striker in a front three, so this 'limited forward' claim holds no water. This is what was said about him early in the season:
Berahino has generally been used on the right of an offensive ‘three’ behind a front man – although he did play alongside Ideye last week.
Regis sees a different role for him.
“Saido, for me, would prosper in the ‘hole’ – where he can float around, take up good positions and seek others out with passes.
http://birnews.com/west-bromwich-al...n-sneak-under-the-radar-says-cyrille-regis-2/
Some more quotes from an article just a few days old
The attributes Saido gives Pulis are greater than those of Vic and Brown, he can run at defenders and beat them with either foot, that two footedness is a great asset to have when taking on opposition, he can go either side and produce a shot or cross. It’s the physical side to his game that has come along recently though and he gives Albion a chance to get up the field with good body position between man and ball to hold up the play.
Berahino is proof that the days of the last man striker are in decline, the Jermaine Defoe, Kevin Phillips style finisher is no longer the only asset that will be looked at. Ultimately defenders have dropped deeper against this style of forward forcing sides to play feet and be a little smarter in approach play rather than playing balls in behind for the speed of a forward to be the difference. Talking about that pace, Saido certainly has that, he can run behind and attack the space that is left by high line and his ability to find the corners or side netting goes before itself. Again, proof that people prefer all round strikers rather than someone who is brilliant at one attribute of the game.
Limited forward eh?
http://thebaggiesway.com/2015/03/11/striking-partnership/
Berahino and Ings are comfortably above Austin in terms of potential.
He's played in the other roles but not all that well, just because an article has a viewpoint does not make it a conclusive fact. I've seen him play plenty of times, he's not much of a dribbler, has an average first touch, average awareness of those moving around him and his link up play is basic. He's also no more two footed than Vietto is. He has a good shot and he's fast, but certainly not good enough to play as part of a genuine fluid front 3 aiming for the top. As a back up for Rooney if RvP is sold? yeah, I guess, but isn't the idea to use those type of games to blood Wilson?
Ok mate. Your viewpoint is not conclusive either, but i'd hold the viewpoint of someone who spends more time watching West Brom higher than yours. i've played devils advocate here because some of the dismissive posts are as thin as air. So just so we're clear, which players do you consider to be at a higher level than him? Vietto, Dybala and who else?
They both have more talent. How many times does someone have to repeat the same thing... Simple put its like comparing Alan Shearer and Henry. We both know who had more talent but can argue to the death who is better if we just want to look at scoring records. Right now we need the player with more talent. It's not that hard. I'd rather we get the new Aguero than Harry Kane and yes it's a foreign stereotype but they just have better ability. We can't argue that.
Italian football is inferior to the EPL at the moment so if a player is scoring goals there that doesn't automatically mean that he will be scoring goals in the EPL. Nevertheless its one thing playing with a small club and its another playing with Manchester United. The likes of Foster, Lallana and Fellaini were great players with smaller clubs. Look at them now.
Also most of these players have just 1 good season in them. Dybala scored 3 goals last season, the Hurrikane scored 4, Berahino scored 9 which include a hat-trick against mighty Newport, Ings scored loads of goals but in the Championship. Such comment is not meant to criticize these players, I mean they are young so its only fair for them not to have a great history of goals. Nevertheless there's no guarantee that they are not 1 season wonders.
In my opinion we should thread this choice carefully and focus on the characteristics we need rather then on nationality etc. In my opinion our team cant afford playing with a 2 striker system + we've already got Rooney. Therefore we need a striker who is ready to accept the bench. That basically cuts Kane out of the race because there's no way Levy would sell him for less then 30m and we've got other areas to strengthen as well. Our team need a striker whose versatile, pacey and is capable to go deep to collect the ball. I am aware that Dybala can do that. I am not sure about the other ones. Vietto is certainly a charm with his 10-20m minimum clause fee and in my opinion we should consider that option seriously.
If you ask me I believe that United's problems lie in defense, midfield and flanks so in few words the forward line is way below my priority list. I wouldn't mind if LVG decides to start next season with just Rooney, Wilson, RVP and Chicarito.
Also most of these players have just 1 good season in them. Dybala scored 3 goals last season, the Hurrikane scored 4, Berahino scored 9 which include a hat-trick against mighty Newport, Ings scored loads of goals but in the Championship. Such comment is not meant to criticize these players, I mean they are young so its only fair for them not to have a great history of goals. Nevertheless there's no guarantee that they are not 1 season wonders.
In my opinion we should thread this choice carefully and focus on the characteristics we need rather then on nationality etc. In my opinion our team cant afford playing with a 2 striker system + we've already got Rooney. Therefore we need a striker who is ready to accept the bench. That basically cuts Kane out of the race because there's no way Levy would sell him for less then 30m and we've got other areas to strengthen as well. Our team need a striker whose versatile, pacey and is capable to go deep to collect the ball. I am aware that Dybala can do that. I am not sure about the other ones. Vietto is certainly a charm with his 10-20m minimum clause fee and in my opinion we should consider that option seriously.
If you ask me I believe that United's problems lie in defense, midfield and flanks so in few words the forward line is way below my priority list. I wouldn't mind if LVG decides to start next season with just Rooney, Wilson, RVP and Chicarito.
I don't make much difference between them all. They range from average to ok players for me.
Considering Ings is on a free in the summer, it'd be hard to turn him down. Berahino would cost about 25m, and I'm not convinced he's worth that.
I'd rather spend £14m on Vietto to hit his buyout clause, and bring in Ings on a free. Sell RvP, Hernandez and Will Keane, and don't sign Falcao. We'd probably profit in this regard, and defiantly save on wages so more money for more pressing areas in the side.
Front line of Rooney, Vietto, Ings, Wilson, Henriquez would be more dynamic than our current line, and if we are moving to single striker formation, would be more than good enough.
I'd rather spend £14m on Vietto to hit his buyout clause, and bring in Ings on a free. Sell RvP, Hernandez and Will Keane, and don't sign Falcao. We'd probably profit in this regard, and defiantly save on wages so more money for more pressing areas in the side.
Front line of Rooney, Vietto, Ings, Wilson, Henriquez would be more dynamic than our current line, and if we are moving to single striker formation, would be more than good enough.
He doesn't seem to tick the boxes marked character and attitude.
I like your line of thought
You're wrong, we don't need a player with more talent. Nani is more talented than most of the players in the squad FFS. We need a combination of talent and straight out effectiveness. Berahinho is PL proven already. Im not saying we shouldn't be looking to sign talented players, but you make it sound like they'll just slot in here and make an instant impact.
There's a lot wrong with your views on Kane and your analogy about Henry and Shearer. Henry and Shearer both got the job done. It just depends on who you prefer to watch, and you prefer to watch imports with flashy names and silky skills. Nothing wrong with that, its your preference, but don't dismiss players like Kane and Berahinho like they can't do a job at OT.
That's fine, I never intended to come off as if I was the definitive voice, merely my opinion based off watching him enough times to form one. Morata, Lacazette, Fekir and Kane if we are talking in the same age range.
This has been blown out of proportion by the witch hunting English media. Berahinho has said he's grateful to England and West Brom for giving him a second chance at life. His only crime here was being honest about his intentions at the end of the season (he also said he'll do his best for the club while he remains a player) and he's been demonized by his own manager because of that. After that, all of a sudden a report was leaked that he showed up late once for training and was fined. Players turn up late from time to time and get fined and its dealt with internally, but when its leaked its often part of mud slinging.
His arrest for drunk driving wasn't clever, but he's joined the long line of footballers who have been arrested for the same offence over the years including a few of our own like Tunnicliffe (ex of course) in 2012 and Nick Powell and Fellaini more recently. None of them are considered to have 'attitude' problems. Danny Ings is obviously not signing a new contract and he'll walk away on a free this summer yet no one is calling him a traitor. Its bullshit and you're buying into it.
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Great post @devilish
This I do agree with, I hate drunk driving, it's such a disgusting and selfish act, but there are so many guilty of it in game, and his age gives him leeway on the little moments on unprofessional behavior or petulance like not celebrating his goals when denied a January move, as he clearly knuckled down and even changed his role under Pulis for the good of the team without sulking.
The post where he suggests keeping a past it striker and bringing back another who the manager doesn't rate and who has spent the best part of 2 seasons sitting on the bench? That would be us treading water and more pointless than buying Berahino IMO.
Most of the things Devilish wrote in that post are bang on. Personally, as much as I like RVP I think he should be sold this summer but I see him staying for at least one more season. Im all for United signing another forward, but I also feel our defence and midfield are bigger priorities, RB too. So if we can't procure a young forward in summer then i'd be ok with Rooney, RVP, Wilson and Chicharito as long as the other areas are addressed.
If we are only going to play one #9 I can't see any need to bring Hernandez back and take away more chances for Wilson, as I agree RvP will manage to get another season here. Of course this doubles back around on the biggest reason I don't want us to buy Berahino, it's not a pure back up #9 we need IMO, it's an attacker who can play across the frontline in a 4-3-3.
I guess that article was a waste of time posting. His manager and analysts are saying he's a versatile forward and we've both watched (im assuming you have) him play different roles across the frontline yet you still deem him a limited pure #9.
I have only seen Berahino a few times but it's clear he's an intelligent and flexible forward not an Austin or an Ings. He would be a good addition for us if we didn't have Akpom coming through
As I said previously, I've seen him play the other roles but I personally don't think he's very good at them.
Nick Powell is considered to have serious attitude problems.
Pictures of him at Old Trafford from the clash against Arsenal with his agent...
Left before the final whistle.
Left before the final whistle.
Maybe he just likes football?
His agents a big dude.
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