Ryan Giggs | United confirm he's left

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Rory 7 said:
What an odd attack @devilish. I always thought the term British came from the fact that the Island of Britain was inhabited by the ancient Celtic Britons. It's kind of like the way the term Irish comes from the fact that that the Island of Ireland was inhabited by the ancient Celtic Irish.

On the manager front I think you are being unfair. Particularly since English football has been dominated for much of the last 30 years by a man whose ethnicity was Scottish. Just to clarify, the term Scottish refers to the fact that North of the Forth was inhabited by 'Scots', or ancient Celtic Scots.

I think you are letting Pardew cloud your judgement ;)
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Ferguson had retired and even if he was still there he would be a product of a football that existed around half a century ago.

Don't get me wrong. I believe in meritocracy so seriously, I cant get arsed about the British crisis of not producing top managers because we can always bring someone from elsewhere. This is the same attitude most EPL clubs work with. However from the FA point of view they should be worried. I believe (correct me if I am wrong please) that there were just 3 English managers in the EPL this year (Howe at Bournemouth, Pardew at Palace, Big Same at Sunderland). None of them qualified in Europe. Thats concerning when compared to lets say the Serie A were the vast majority (including the top 5 clubs) are lead by Italian managers
 
Penna said:
Things change so quickly in football that it seems ridiculous to half-promise someone a massive job several years in advance. Had the Van Gaal tenure worked out successfully and he'd had his three years, there would be some sense in (maybe even) promoting Giggs. But as it is, and as it's panned out, it doesn't seem logical to have him as part of a Portuguese-speaking management team.

I honestly think the language issue is more important than we might think. I know we're in England, but surely a boss likes to a) have personal history with and b) talk in the nuances of his native language with those who deputise for him and give support? Van Gaal's deficiencies in English helped to portray him as clipped and stilted. He's probably much more personable when he's speaking Dutch.
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I get the impression that isnt the case! But I think your point stands.
 
If Woodward promised Giggs the chance to succeed van Gaal whenever the Dutchman was sacked, that's silly and naive. Also, Giggs surely ought to appreciate that things change.
 
Giggs shouldn't be flying to Dubai to consider his future (if this story has any basis).

He should be meeting Mourinho and others for a chat.

Looking like a big sulk isn't going to get him far, and being out of touch while everything is being reorganised is a bad idea. He needs to accept what has just happened and decide what he wants to do, both ultimately and in the next couple of years on the way.

Mourinho can help him by talking him through these things, and after all he himself came through from being number 2 to some good people, and say something like give us a couple of years here, see how things go, then decide
 
devilish said:
Ferguson had retired and even if he was still there he would be a product of a football that existed around half a century ago.

Don't get me wrong. I believe in meritocracy so seriously, I cant get arsed about the British crisis of not producing top managers because we can always bring someone from elsewhere. This is the same attitude most EPL clubs work with. However from the FA point of view they should be worried. I believe (correct me if I am wrong please) that there were just 3 English managers in the EPL this year (Howe at Bournemouth, Pardew at Palace, Big Same at Sunderland). None of them qualified in Europe. Thats concerning when compared to lets say the Serie A were the vast majority (including the top 5 clubs) are lead by Italian managers
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Ferguson retired just three years ago. As the league winner! And he dominated the league up until then. I just don't get this so called 'crisis'. Hell even Brenton nearly won the league two years ago. And sorry @devilish you are forgetting those managers that survive (Pulis, Hughes, Neil) and those that were sacked (Sherwood, Monk). I'm probably forgetting more. There are plenty of British managers. It just so happens that the last truly successful one retired three years ago.
 
I have to admit I won't feel comfortable so long as Giggs is part of the setup. I'll look forward to next season a lot more if Giggs departs, as harsh as that may sound.
 
acnumber9 said:
Maybe he should but you brought in a real world comparison. In the real world somebody doesn't get sacked or demoted because their manager was shit. Ultimately the only people who k ow if he's good at his job are hose who have seen him in it. You are not one of those people.
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Manchester United and football is a real world example, mate. And in this world Van Gaal and his team have been sacked with Giggs being left and seemingly in a position to stay on his own terms. You might try to dress it however you want but the fact remains that he has been an integral part of two failed regimes. Has it ever occured to you that maybe the people you claim are well placed to see Giggs' strengths have been the same people central to the installation of these two regimes? If these people can be daft enough to believe Moyes was good enough for United maybe, just maybe, they lack the necessary competence to assess football managers and coaches by extension.
 
itso 7 said:
Manchester United and football is a real world example, mate. And in this world Van Gaal and his team have been sacked with Giggs being left and seemingly in a position to stay on his own terms. You might try to dress it however you want but the fact remains that he has been an integral part of two failed regimes. Has it ever occured to you that maybe the people you claim are well placed to see Giggs' strengths have been the same people central to the installation of these two regimes? If these people can be daft enough to believe Moyes was good enough for United maybe, just maybe, they lack the necessary competence to assess football managers and coaches by extension.
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Aye. And if people insist on real world comparisons, then they should compare football situations with like for like football situations, not banks, churches, factories or whatever other industry.

Typically, in the real world of football, when a manager is sacked, so is his whole team. That Giggs should remain and dictate his own terms is unheard of. In fact, it is ridiculous.
 
RedChip said:
Aye. And if people insist on real world comparisons, then they should compare football situations with like for like football situations, not banks, churches, factories or whatever other industry.

Typically, in the real world of football, when a manager is sacked, so is his whole team. That Giggs should remain and dictate his own terms is unheard of. In fact, it is ridiculous.
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Right on and to me this is an indication of the malaise that has set in. From Woodward promising him the role in advance to his mates touting him for the role whilst Van Gaal was struggling to set things right.
 
devilish said:
Weeell I wouldn't be that sure about it. You're assuming that just because a player was loyal to the club then he will be loyal as coach/manager.
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one thing for sure, he is way more loyal that Faria, who does not care about United one bit, for him it's just a name on a paycheck, nothing more.
devilish said:
Pep was Barcelona's product, a player who time and time again showed great loyalty to the club. That hasn't stopped him from leaving. Same with Ancelotti with AC Milan. As a player he was like a Roy Keane for them and they gave him a chance despite failing at Juventus. That hasn't stopped him from resigning back in 2009 and refusing to return ever since.
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Because they already given their club so much.
Guardiola said many times, that he gave all of his, 100%, he was washed out and even got a sabbatical. He also said he simply could not take Barcelona forward.
devilish said:
Ryan Giggs could have survived all this if he laid low, took a low level job at United and grew at the club in an area the managers tend not to be too bothered about having full control on (ex the youth academy). That's exactly what Nicky Butt did. The crossing of the Rubicon occurred the day someone whispered in the media that we're grooming Ryan to become our next manager. After that the situation became unattainable for him
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Well Giggs and Butt were completely different players. Maybe Butt does not really have ambitions to manage, he is happy to work as coach, not everybody is a manager. The second thing is you have to use your assets. Giggs was offered a job, because Fergie run the club for 20+ years and nw manager need a more familiar face, smb who can talk to stuff, senior players also the kind of person they would all be comfortable with etc. The club also needed a continuity.
 
To be honest i think a clean slate in terms of first team coaches is best all round. Let Jose do his job without having to keep people in a job just to not upset the apple cart. Personally think if Joyce is leaving then Giggs should cut his teeth at U21 level and then step up to the helm- if he thinks he is better than that after managing us for 4 games a few years back and wants to leave then so be it.

He needs to be careful- he could very well fail elsewhere and then wont get a sniff at Utd at all in future.
 
itso 7 said:
Manchester United and football is a real world example, mate. And in this world Van Gaal and his team have been sacked with Giggs being left and seemingly in a position to stay on his own terms. You might try to dress it however you want but the fact remains that he has been an integral part of two failed regimes. Has it ever occured to you that maybe the people you claim are well placed to see Giggs' strengths have been the same people central to the installation of these two regimes? If these people can be daft enough to believe Moyes was good enough for United maybe, just maybe, they lack the necessary competence to assess football managers and coaches by extension.
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You compared it to your own situation. Would you get sacked because your boss was shit and would you be happy about it? Basically people are getting on his back because he doesn't want to lose his job. I'm not saying he shouldn't. That should be up to his new boss but we can't honestly sit and expect him to be happy about it.

Unfortunately appointing a manager is not an exact science. It doesn't mean they have no idea what a good coach looks like. They also sacked those people when it became clear they could not fulfill the obligations of the job.
 
RedChip said:
Aye. And if people insist on real world comparisons, then they should compare football situations with like for like football situations, not banks, churches, factories or whatever other industry.

Typically, in the real world of football, when a manager is sacked, so is his whole team. That Giggs should remain and dictate his own terms is unheard of. In fact, it is ridiculous.
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It was Ixion doing the comparing.

It's also not unheard of at all. It's happened in Manchester under City's last three managers.
 
acnumber9 said:
You compared it to your own situation. Would you get sacked because your boss was shit and would you be happy about it? Basically people are getting on his back because he doesn't want to lose his job. I'm not saying he shouldn't. That should be up to his new boss but we can't honestly sit and expect him to be happy about it.

Unfortunately appointing a manager is not an exact science. It doesn't mean they have no idea what a good coach looks like. They also sacked those people when it became clear they could not fulfill the obligations of the job.
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That was the other poster mate.
 
Giggs has been a great servant, but I just wish he'd go and earn his stripes now.
It would be a great fairytale story for this man to lead us to success in the future, but he needs to prove he's up to the job
 
Does it annoy anyone else how little he talks to the media? Well, on the record anyway.
 
Pexbo said:
Does it annoy anyone else how little he talks to the media? Well, on the record anyway.
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Maybe he's worried about awkward questions on his private life?
 
RedChip said:
Aye. And if people insist on real world comparisons, then they should compare football situations with like for like football situations, not banks, churches, factories or whatever other industry.

Typically, in the real world of football, when a manager is sacked, so is his whole team. That Giggs should remain and dictate his own terms is unheard of. In fact, it is ridiculous.
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Giggs was never part of Van Gaal's team. He was already employed by Utd before Van Gaal arrived. I don't know where you get the absolute fact that Giggs is remaining and dictating his own terms. Mourinho hasn't even been appointed yet, I would imagine Giggs would make his decision about his future after that. Who knows, he may have made his mind up already.
 
Pexbo said:
Does it annoy anyone else how little he talks to the media? Well, on the record anyway.
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And if he did he'd be crucified on here no matter what he said. How many other Assistant Managers are regularly interviewed or quoted in the media?
 
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Rednotdead said:
Giggs was never part of Van Gaal's team. He was already employed by Utd before Van Gaal arrived. I don't know where you get the absolute fact that Giggs is remaining and dictating his own terms. Mourinho hasn't even been appointed yet, I would imagine Giggs would make his decision about his future after that. Who knows, he may have made his mind up already.
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Imagine LvG having an assistant who was never part of his team.

No, of course, I don't know for certain he will remain and dictate his own terms. I just joined in the conversation suggesting this is the case.
 
RedChip said:
So, city's assistant managers dictated their own terms?
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No idea. But he's kept his job through more than one manager. He probably wouldn't have wanted to be demoted either. What with him being a human being and all. Asking to remain in your current role is not dictating terms.
 
RedChip said:
Imagine LvG having an assistant who was never part of his team.

No, of course, I don't know for certain he will remain and dictate his own terms. I just joined in the conversation suggesting this is the case.
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You know full well what I meant. Giggs didn't come to Utd along with Van Gaal and his coaches, he was already here.
 
Rednotdead said:
And if he did he'd be crucified on here no matter what he said. How many other Assistant Managers are regularly interviewed or quoted in the press?
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On here should be the least of his worries.

There's no escaping the fact he is campaigning for the United job. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he put himself out there and showed some confidence in himself rather than resorting to press whispers and campaigning from his buddies.

He knows full well he doesn't have the qualifications for the job and he's trying to edge his way in through the back door.

He also knows that if he leaves and attempts to prove himself elsewhere, the odds of him doing a job worthy of earning himself a chance at the United job are minuscule to minus.

There's about 6 managers worthy of the United job and 5 of them are employed. All of whom have spent the last decade putting themselves out there, working hard, in the spotlight with their reputation on the line and have succeeded.

None of them tried to slink in through the back door into a big job.


Time to grow a pair and get out of the United bubble.
 
Rednotdead said:
You know full well what I meant. Giggs didn't come to Utd along with Van Gaal and his coaches, he was already here.
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But then he became part of LvG's management team, right? The management team that failed. Usually, when the management team of a football club fail, they all fall with the manager.

Or did he actively try not to be part of the team?

He cannot have it both ways. Either he is a full participant of a team that failed. Or he actively dissociated from the team and did not fully participate. Neither is good.
 
Pexbo said:
On here should be the least of his worries.

There's no escaping the fact he is campaigning for the United job. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he put himself out there and showed some confidence in himself rather than resorting to press whispers and campaigning from his buddies.

He knows full well he doesn't have the qualifications for the job and he's trying to edge his way in through the back door.

He also knows that if he leaves and attempts to prove himself elsewhere, the odds of him doing a job worthy of earning himself a chance at the United job are minuscule to minus.

There's about 6 managers worthy of the United job and 5 of them are employed. All of whom have spent the last decade putting themselves out there, working hard, in the spotlight with their reputation on the line and have succeeded.

None of them tried to slink in through the back door into a big job.


Time to grow a pair and get out of the United bubble.
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Well, yes. Maybe then he'll speak to the media.
 
Pexbo said:
On here should be the least of his worries.

There's no escaping the fact he is campaigning for the United job. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he put himself out there and showed some confidence in himself rather than resorting to press whispers and campaigning from his buddies.

He knows full well he doesn't have the qualifications for the job and he's trying to edge his way in through the back door.

He also knows that if he leaves and attempts to prove himself elsewhere, the odds of him doing a job worthy of earning himself a chance at the United job are minuscule to minus.

There's about 6 managers worthy of the United job and 5 of them are employed. All of whom have spent the last decade putting themselves out there, working hard, in the spotlight with their reputation on the line and have succeeded.

None of them tried to slink in through the back door into a big job.


Time to grow a pair and get out of the United bubble.
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It's not a fecking fact it's just the paranoid fantasies of United fans.
 
Shamwow said:
It's not a fecking fact it's just the paranoid fantasies of United fans.
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You've got to be pretty naive if you think hasn't got designs on the top job.
 
Pexbo said:
You've got to be pretty naive if you think hasn't got designs on the top job.
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Or you've got to be paranoid & delusional to paint such a vivid fantasy.

If he's so fecking ruthless and sneaky, why do the club want to keep him on? Why did LVG give him a massive hug when we scored on Saturday? Why are there no stories sneaking out of the press about his shenanigans. Do you really think about your theories and the actual implications of everything you're saying? Can I have a side of chips with that please? Giggs has somehow managed to get so many people to big him up in the press and yet there's nothing from anyone who is actually annoyed about it? Surely someone at the club or on Van Gaal's staff must be getting pissed off at all of this? Why have we heard no grumblings? Has he used his mind control powers on them?
 
RedChip said:
But then he became part of LvG's management team, right? The management team that failed. Usually, when the management team of a football club fail, they all fall with the manager.

Or did he actively try not to be part of the team?

He cannot have it both ways. Either he is a full participant of a team that failed. Or he actively dissociated from the team and did not fully participate. Neither is good.
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Kidd at City, Holland and Lollichon at Chelsea, Gerland and Tapalovic at Bayern, and de la Fuente at Barcelona would disagree.
 
Pexbo said:
You've got to be pretty naive if you think hasn't got designs on the top job.
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He might have them for a future, like in 4-5 years. You say it's "fact" that he is doing everything to clear the way for managing United right now. That's hardly true.
 
Pexbo said:
None of them tried to slink in through the back door into a big job.
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Yet they all would have if offered the opportunity. Giggs' biggest crime here is wanting to be Manchester United manager after being told he was next in line.
 
No chance of Giggs being assistant manager under Mourinho. The latter have his own backroom staff which he had worked with everywhere he's been, no need to change that. However, I do believe that Giggs will be offered the same role Zidane had in Mourinho's Real. A special adviser role which is tailored for him and that includes less technical/more formal duties.
 
RedChip said:
Well, I did say 'usually'. Sighting a few exceptions doesn't really disprove my statement.
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I doubt any of those ever had the tag of 'future manager' prematurely attached on their heads. The fact that he is reportedly bitter about being passed over for the job is not conducive for a healthy working relationship especially with a manager of Mourinho's nature.
 
itso 7 said:
I doubt any of those ever had the tag of 'future manager' prematurely attached on their heads. The fact that he is reportedly bitter about being passed over for the job is not conducive for a healthy working relationship especially with a manager of Mourinho's nature.
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I suspect it's maybe not the fact that he's been passed over for the job, but apparently if reports are true it's that Woodward didn't even tell him the plans for him to take over after Van Gaal had changed. I think anyone would be angry at that.
 
Can't the club just show some balls and tell him to find his way?
Are they club under some impression there will be a fan backlash?
I don't see how it can be a good thing knowing one of your staff is gunning for your job.
He has to go.
 
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