Ryan Giggs | United confirm he's left

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acnumber9 said:
I have no issue with Mourinho picking who he wants to work with him. Utd obviously hoped to groom Giggs into the job and it hasn't worked out. I don't agree with pinning the failures on Giggs with no knowledge of what he's done and I can't stand Devilish's transparent hypocrisy on these matters.

He may be very good at what he does. I've never seen him work. There's no doubting why he got his job though. It wasn't qualifications and experience that's for sure.

They're not too different really. They both got jobs because of who they knew. Martin Ferguson had jobs outside of working for his brother. Faria hasn't had any outside of working for his mate.
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I had placed on Devilish on ignore so I can't see any of his posts and I've only read your posts in this thread. I just think you are making an equally ridiculous point that Assistant managers are old boys network jobs by saying Faria hasn't got a job outside of Mourinho's team. Well, he has practically worked with him for 15 years and almost all managers have their own squad that they've worked with previously. Jimmy Lumsden got into United and I'm sure we let him in because he worked with Moyes at Everton and not because he was a guy known to Moyes.

I'm sure Giggs would like to work at United. It's his right to do so, and it's Mourinho's right to accept or reject it. I'm sure LvG wanted to stay in the job at Man Utd, as he doesn't want to get fired himself, still didn't stop you from posting your thoughts on the matter?
 
acnumber9 said:
It's not. He hired somebody he knew who had no experience. He's his mate. Same goes for Silvino Louro who has never worked for anyone else. They're the only ones who've followed Mourinho throughout his career and they all just happen to be Portugese. If they were so good why have they never worked for anyone else? Ever? I never said Faria was inexperienced but he was when he was given a job he'd never done before and had no footballing history whatsoever.

Giggs is one of many who have started coaching careers at big clubs with no previous experience of coaching. It's been a natural progression for years. We've yet to see if he remains here. His future should be dependant on whether he is good at his job and his boss wants him. Not the failings of others. The same way you wouldn't expect to be sacked just because your boss was shit.
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I repeat, it is. If giggs move to Salford fc and he takes Scholes with him. In the next 10 years they move to bury, Southampton, spurs, real, inter and bayern, winning league titles and cls on the way then no one would complain about him appointing Scholes at other. The reason would be that they had grown up together and that the Scholes at Salford is not the same one at bayern.

Gig's started immediately as assistant manager, at a top club. He seems to have a guaranteed top job irrespective on whether the coaching staff he's part of succeeds and fails or whether the manager wants him or not. Also he seems to be in some sort of apprenticeship were the managers are obliged to train him so he can take their own job. That's ridiculous
 
I'll probably sound weird now but from mates of mine who are close to United (being invited to becks wedding, sharing pints with the late neville and martin ferguson etc) Jimmy was even worse then Giggs. During moyes administration the passing joke at carrington was what Jimmy does exactly? No one knew what his role was or had ever seen him do anything
 
acnumber9 said:
It doesn't emphasise on familiarity at all. It focuses on coming from a similar background. Which they do.

I'm making no further assumption on why he got the job than you did. I have the tangible fact that nobody else has ever hired him mind you.
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Not at all. Having a "similar background" means nothing really. You don't get jobs due to having a similar background. That needs to translate into friendship/being pally and getting favors as a result. You may just as well be super impressed by the qualities of someone with a similar background and hire them based on what you think is big potential. All of this is really obvious stuff.

I'm assuming that a person who was hired must have been hired on merit. I'm afraid the onus is on you to prove that it wasn't. But it seems you don't really have anything in that regard other that "first job", which is not much at all.
 
devilish said:
I repeat, it is. If giggs move to Salford fc and he takes Scholes with him. In the next 10 years they move to bury, Southampton, spurs, real, inter and bayern, winning league titles and cls on the way then no one would complain about him appointing Scholes at other. The reason would be that they had grown up together and that the Scholes at Salford is not the same one at bayern.

Gig's started immediately as assistant manager, at a top club. He seems to have a guaranteed top job irrespective on whether the coaching staff he's part of succeeds and fails or whether the manager wants him or not. Also he seems to be in some sort of apprenticeship were the managers are obliged to train him so he can take their own job. That's ridiculous
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Good point. Scholes would be a hugely proven staff member by the time he moves to a huge club that needs such personnel. Just like Rui Faria now is with Jose Mourinho.

Giggs on the other hand is totally unproven as would Scholes if he joined him at United.

I don't get what about any of this is confusing. I'm not sure on what basis Rui Faria was hired by Mourinho, but the fact is that it happened at a lower level and as of now, which is really what matters as a United, Faria has proven himself as an assistant manager to many title winning managerial teams.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I had placed on Devilish on ignore so I can't see any of his posts and I've only read your posts in this thread. I just think you are making an equally ridiculous point that Assistant managers are old boys network jobs by saying Faria hasn't got a job outside of Mourinho's team. Well, he has practically worked with him for 15 years and almost all managers have their own squad that they've worked with previously. Jimmy Lumsden got into United and I'm sure we let him in because he worked with Moyes at Everton and not because he was a guy known to Moyes.

I'm sure Giggs would like to work at United. It's his right to do so, and it's Mourinho's right to accept or reject it. I'm sure LvG wanted to stay in the job at Man Utd, as he doesn't want to get fired himself, still didn't stop you from posting your thoughts on the matter?
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But that's the point being made. There's nothing strange or startling about people in football getting jobs because of who they know.

I'm not sure what point you're making in your last paragraph at all. I've already said it should be up to Mourinho whether Giggs works for him.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Not at all. Having a "similar background" means nothing really. You don't get jobs due to having a similar background. That needs to translate into friendship/being pally and getting favors as a result. You may just as well be super impressed by the qualities of someone with a similar background and hire them based on what you think is big potential. All of this is really obvious stuff.

I'm assuming that a person who was hired must have been hired on merit. I'm afraid the onus is on you to prove that it wasn't. But it seems you don't really have anything in that regard other that "first job", which is not much at all.
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It's part of the definition of the phrase as I've shown. It derives from old school connections etc. You're completely misunderstanding the meaning of the phrase.

Not just his first jobs. Only jobs. There's no burden of proof on either of us. I haven't said he was a bad coach. Just stated the fact that he got his job because he knew Mourinho. That's a fact. Whether he impressed or not or if he was not from a similar background is unknown. Nobody else has hired him at any stage in football though. Questions could be asked about why the only people Mourinho takes to every club have been Portugese.
 
I fail to see how someone could possibly think Mourinho hiring Rui Faria at Uniao De Leiria is deserving of the tag 'jobs for the boys'. It sounds like he saw that Faria was talented when he met him at Barcelona and hired him because of that talent he saw. Not because he was his friend or he was doing Faria a favour. They formed a strong team at Uniao so continued it for the rest of their careers and got great success with it.

Jobs for the boys - meaning
Favouritism where jobs or other benefits are given to friends and acquaintances.
 
Attila said:
I fail to see how someone could possibly think Mourinho hiring Rui Faria at Uniao De Leiria is deserving of the tag 'jobs for the boys'. It sounds like he saw that Faria was talented when he met him at Barcelona and hired him because of that talent he saw. Not because he was his friend or he was doing Faria a favour. They formed a strong team at Uniao so continued it for the rest of their careers and got great success with it.

Jobs for the boys - meaning
Favouritism where jobs or other benefits are given to friends and acquaintances.
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Did Mourinho give a job to an inexperienced acquaintance who had a similar background to him?
 
Well, Giggs won't keep his job as assistant manager - so there's that. I haven't seen anyone advocating that he should keep his job as assistant manager either - so there's that too.

I'm not sure what people object to at this stage? That he might possibly accept an entirely different job at the club? Is this a problem?
 
acnumber9 said:
Did Mourinho give a job to an inexperienced acquaintance who had a similar background to him?
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What do you mean similar background? It doesn't seem like they knew eachother well before the Uniao job and he got the job because he impressed Mou at the seminar in Barcelona
 
Attila said:
What do you mean similar background? It doesn't seem like they knew eachother well before the Uniao job and he got the job because he impressed Mou at the seminar in Barcelona
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Two PE graduates from Portugal who wanted to work in football despite not having played to any professional level. Similar backgrounds.
 
acnumber9 said:
Two PE graduates from Portugal who wanted to work in football despite not having played to any professional level. Similar backgrounds.
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I don't think Mou hired him because he was Portuguese and had the same degree. According to the portuguese poster here Faria has been offered the Porto, Benfica and Sporting jobs so he must be very talented. Something Mou spotted and took advantage of
 
Adnan said:
I'm sure I read a post from @Sly saying Faria has turned down the big 3 in Portugal.
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Does not exactly reflect well on him if true. And as jobs go, i am not sure it speaks to some real interest in his services, i just assume it's more likely Porto and take a look at their current manager, it's José Peseiro. His resume (the last 10 years is)

2003–2004 Real Madrid (assistant)
2004–2005 Sporting CP
2006–2007 Al Hilal
2007–2008 Panathinaikos
2008 Rapid Bucureşti
2009–2011 Saudi Arabia
2012–2013 Braga
2013–2015 Al-Wahda
2015–2016 Al Ahly
2016– Porto

That's from wikipedia, i have to say, most championship managers have better resume than that! So even if Porto offered him a position, given who they chosen is not exactly a vote of confidence.
 
acnumber9 said:
It's part of the definition of the phrase as I've shown. It derives from old school connections etc. You're completely misunderstanding the meaning of the phrase.

Not just his first jobs. Only jobs. There's no burden of proof on either of us. I haven't said he was a bad coach. Just stated the fact that he got his job because he knew Mourinho. That's a fact. Whether he impressed or not or if he was not from a similar background is unknown. Nobody else has hired him at any stage in football though. Questions could be asked about why the only people Mourinho takes to every club have been Portugese.
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Yes, merely a part. I'm not misunderstanding the meaning of the phrase, I'm giving you its accurate meaning rather than pulling out one word from it and building a case from there to misapply it.

Here are more definitions for you

appointment of one's supporters to posts, without reference to their qualifications or ability
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I'd like to to prove why you think Jose didn't give the job to Faria based on his ability. Merely emphasizing on similar background doesn't mean it's not based on merit. Also, how does it actually apply to United? There's a big difference between that little club and a giant like Manchester United. There's a lot of things that could work at a tiny club but have no place at one of the biggest jobs in the whole sport. So in addition to the accuracy of your claims, I struggle to see the relevance as well.

Your fact is meaningless though. It has no implication nor relevance to the topic at hand, or even the statement you made, and eventually doesn't make your point for you.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
If this is true then this



is irrelevant.
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Its true
Born in the unexceptional central Portuguese town of Barcelos, Faria was, like Mourinho, a graduate in physical education who had never played football of any distinction. For Faria, as for Mourinho, that would not prevent him harbouring a burning ambition to work in the game.

It took him to a seminar day at Barcelona's Camp Nou, where his path was to cross Mourinho's, who was working at the time as Louis van Gaal's assistant manager.

The pair chatted, and it became clear to Mourinho that his coaching philosophy matched that of the young PE graduate. Mourinho was impressed by the young man and stayed in touch, and when he took the job at Uniao Leiria in April 2001 he appointed Faria fitness coach and video analyst.

Only a fortnight into his job, though, the then 25-year-old Faria thought he might be made redundant as abruptly as he had been hired. The Leiria chairman and his attendants came to the training ground to watch Mourinho's session one morning. There followed a stand-off between the coach and his superiors after Mourinho told the chairman to get out.

Though the chairman politely declined, Mourinho stood his ground and won the battle of wills. The callow Faria was convinced he would be sacked. "In all my life I had only been employed two weeks," he said.
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/jun/02/porto.chelsea1
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Yes, merely a part. I'm not misunderstanding the meaning of the phrase, I'm giving you its accurate meaning rather than pulling out one word from it and building a case from there to misapply it.

Here are more definitions for you



I'd like to to prove why you think Jose didn't give the job to Faria based on his ability. Merely emphasizing on similar background doesn't mean it's not based on merit. Also, how does it actually apply to United? There's a big difference between that little club and a giant like Manchester United. There's a lot of things that could work at a tiny club but have no place at one of the biggest jobs in the whole sport. So in addition to the accuracy of your claims, I struggle to see the relevance as well.

Your fact is meaningless though. It has no implication nor relevance to the topic at hand, or even the statement you made, and eventually doesn't make your point for you.
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I haven't said it isn't possible. Just that its almost a perfect fit for the 'jobs for the boys' phrase. I'd like anyone to prove Ryan Giggs doesn't have the ability to do the job he did. He certainly had more time to demonstrate that than somebody attending a seminar. If it applies to Giggs it definitely applies to Rui Faria. And there's more evidence to suggest it. It's not proof but then I never said it was. Which is entirely the point.

Big clubs all over the world have given coaching jobs for many years. It's nothing new or unique to Ryan Giggs or Manchester United and that is a demonstrable fact.
 
Attila said:
I don't think Mou hired him because he was Portuguese and had the same degree. According to the portuguese poster here Faria has been offered the Porto, Benfica and Sporting jobs so he must be very talented. Something Mou spotted and took advantage of
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And Ryan Giggs wasn't appointed because he was mates with Ed Woodward. Besides I was just pointing out they come from similar backgrounds.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Nope. A single factor doesn't make a phrase.
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It's not a single factor but carry on. Your ignorance won't change the fact he fits the category just as much as Giggs or Butt did. And without inside information, more so.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
1. Getting a job because of "familiarity" when you haven't proven yourself in that role = jobs for the boys
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You've already said above that Faria fit the criteria when he was first appointed so you're arguing for the sake of arguing and contradicting yourself here.
 
acnumber9 said:
It's not a single factor but carry on. Your ignorance won't change the fact he fits the category just as much as Giggs or Butt did. And without inside information, more so.
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Don't care about Giggs or Butt. I didn't mention them. Based on Attila's post your description of Faria's hiring was misplaced.

acnumber9 said:
You've already said above that Faria fit the criteria when he was first appointed so you're arguing for the sake of arguing and contradicting yourself here.
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I did? When?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Getting a job because of "familiarity" when you haven't proven yourself in that role = jobs for the boys
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amolbhatia50k said:
Don't care about Giggs or Butt. I didn't mention them. Based on Attila's post your description of Faria's hiring was misplaced.


I did? When?
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Right there. How had Faria proven himself when Mourinho first gave him a job? A man who hadn't worked in his life.
 
acnumber9 said:
Right there. How had Faria proven himself when Mourinho first gave him a job? A man who hadn't worked in his life.
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FFS. I even gave you a proper definition after that. Are you telling me that every person doing his first job fits the "jobs for the boys" phrase. It's an absurd line of argument. Think of the seminar where he impressed Mourinho as the job interview where he saw a candidate having big potential and then hired him when the time was right. This argument is insanely pedantic but I'm afraid the use of the phrase is incorrect. Maybe it's incorrect for Giggs as well, I don't know, but it's incorrect here.
 
Rui Faria isn't a 'job for the boys' but then neither does Giggs have to be. Yes the results have been bad but you can't put blame for that on the assistant manager, unless he's not carrying out the managers instructions properly. Since I've only heard strong praise for the man in his coaching role from Van Gaal and everyone else I think there's a good chance that he is in fact doing a good job and the club want to keep him for the right reasons.

Even if there is some sort of conspiracy in the media in his favour - which I personally find hard to believe for a number of reasons - even if that's true, it can't be true that absolutely everything said about him has been orchestrated from him and his pals. Therefore I think it's unfair for us as fans to doubt everything that we've read about his ability in a coaching role. I understand when people consider the manager stuff to be silly and premature but read past that and I've still only seen endorsements of his ability and for that reason it seems logical that we would want to keep a talented coach in some sort of capacity, especially considering his experience at and knowledge of the club in from the start of its most successful period right through to the present.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I'm not sure what people object to at this stage? That he might possibly accept an entirely different job at the club? Is this a problem?
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I'm not keen on having around someone who it's well known he's after the manager's job.

If he takes another job with us, it would also means he hopes to get the manager's job by just staying around and have it fall into his lap, rather than leave and prove himself.
 
Shamwow said:
I understand when people consider the manager stuff to be silly and premature but read past that and I've still only seen endorsements of his ability and for that reason it seems logical that we would want to keep a talented coach in some sort of capacity, especially considering his experience at and knowledge of the club in from the start of its most successful period right through to the present.
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There's nothing particularly shocking about it at all.

It's gone from "he's not qualified (to be manager" to "he represents everything that's wrong at United".

Let's see what he does. Perhaps he doesn't want the job - perhaps he agrees with those who feel - on his behalf - that he should get some fresh air. But if he wants to stay at United in some capacity, it's hardly a crime.
 
Jazz said:
I'm sick of all this campaigning by the press to foist Giggs into some role with Mourinho, who is coming here to win and probably build his legacy. Someone like that has no inclination to 'mentor' someone looking to inherit his job. So why would Giggs want to hang around? Plus the club needs to concentrate on helping Mourinho to succeed, not worry about keeping a 43 year old millionaire in a role that he thinks is suitable for him. We haven't got time for this kind of indulgence. It also shows you how selfish Giggs is. Just thinking about his ambitions and not what the club needs right now. I'm sorry but it's a big turnoff from one of my favourite ever players.
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On Talkshite this morning Ray Parlour was banging on about how Giggs should be kept, the only reason he could give was that he had so much experience at the club blah blah blah, was part of an awesome midfield. He did not articulate a single reason as to his ability and experience for specific roles within the management structure that may come up. It also pisses me off that Giggs hasn't come out and either fought his own corner for a role, or acknowledged he needs to build up experience to establish his management/assistant manager credentials.
 
Amir said:
I'm not keen on having around someone who it's well known he's after the manager's job.

If he takes another job with us, it would also means he hopes to get the manager's job by just staying around and have it fall into his lap, rather than leave and prove himself.
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Let me get this straight: You think, then, presumably, that if we offer him a coaching job of some kind, we - the club, the board, Ed Woodward, Mourinho for all we know - have been duped somehow by Giggs? Is that it? They think he's just another hard worker - oblivious to the truth, which is that he will go to work undermining Mourinho from day one?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what it is you're afraid of. He's after the manager's job? What exactly does that mean? He's willing to go over dead bodies for it - here and now? Or that he'd like to manage United one day? There's a difference, right?
 
Chorley1974 said:
On Talkshite this morning Ray Parlour was banging on about how Giggs should be kept, the only reason he could give was that he had so much experience at the club blah blah blah, was part of an awesome midfield. He did not articulate a single reason as to his ability and experience for specific roles within the management structure that may come up. It also pisses me off that Giggs hasn't come out and either fought his own corner for a role, or acknowledged he needs to build up experience to establish his management/assistant manager credentials.
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Honestly, I find this totally embarrassing from these pundits and whatnot. They have the temerity to complain about no jobs for British managers - but then instead of suggesting ways in which we can properly educate our potential managers and such, they are busy advocating them for roles they aren't qualified for. How on earth does that help their development? If I were Giggs I would ask these guys to keep a lid on it - it's embarrassing they can't point to one quality he has that is needed for management - instead it's all about him 'knowing United' and having had a great career. It's quite obvious being a manager requires different skillsets. How these pundits get away with talking all this rubbish is incredible really.
 
Chorley1974 said:
On Talkshite this morning Ray Parlour was banging on about how Giggs should be kept, the only reason he could give was that he had so much experience at the club blah blah blah, was part of an awesome midfield. He did not articulate a single reason as to his ability and experience for specific roles within the management structure that may come up. It also pisses me off that Giggs hasn't come out and either fought his own corner for a role, or acknowledged he needs to build up experience to establish his management/assistant manager credentials.
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It's not exactly Giggs' fault what Ray Parlour says (or are you one of them who thinks it is?)
 
amolbhatia50k said:
FFS. I even gave you a proper definition after that. Are you telling me that every person doing his first job fits the "jobs for the boys" phrase. It's an absurd line of argument. Think of the seminar where he impressed Mourinho as the job interview where he saw a candidate having big potential and then hired him when the time was right. This argument is insanely pedantic but I'm afraid the use of the phrase is incorrect. Maybe it's incorrect for Giggs as well, I don't know, but it's incorrect here.
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You did the equation not me. Explain how Faria did not fit your equation. You gave me your version after I gave you the actual definition. What you said above fits perfectly with how Faria was initially hired. You talking in circles doesn't change fact. You should know whether it's incorrect for Giggs if you can be so certain it doesn't apply to Faria.
 
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Sky1981 said:
Faria first job was leira, not fecking Manchester United
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And Zidane's first job was at Real Madrid. Guardiola's at Barcelona, Cruyff at Ajax. The point is people have got jobs with no experience because of who they played for, knew or met, at clubs of all sizes throughout football for years. I don't know why it's a case for abuse of Giggs and why people are pretending it's unheard of or unique. It isn't in any way.
 
acnumber9 said:
You did the equation not me. Explain how Faria did not fit your equation. You gave me your version after I gave you the actual definition. What you said above fits perfectly with how Faria was initially hired. You talking in circles doesn't change fact. You should know whether it's incorrect for Giggs if you can be so certain it doesn't apply to Faria.
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It's pretty obvious that if I meet someone and he impresses me with his ideas, thoughts, and hence, potential, leading to his being hired, then he's been hired on merit. To debate this is purely agenda-driven drivel. And it appears as though, based on Attila's post, this was the case with Faria. My "equation" was just something of the top of my hide and not perfectly worded. But the general gist of the whole phrase is evident in the definition posted by me as well as others.

You should also know how to apply phrases correctly but you obviously don't. Tell me about what in relation to Giggs to you want me to apply this logic.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It's pretty obvious that if I meet someone and he impresses me with his ideas, thoughts, and hence, potential, leading to his being hired, then he's been hired on merit. To debate this is purely agenda-driven drivel. And it appears as though, based on Attila's post, this was the case with Faria. My "equation" was just something of the top of my hide and not perfectly worded. But the general gist of the whole phrase is evident in the definition posted by me as well as others.

You should also know how to apply phrases correctly but you obviously don't. Tell me about what in relation to Giggs to you want me to apply this logic.
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You pointed out the exact factors of 'jobs for the boys' and Faria qualified under that description. I didn't. That was your definition of it while telling me I didn't understand it. The meaning of the phrase is obvious which is why you arguing it is bonkers. It applies to Faria every bit as much as Giggs.

You're saying with fact that Faria doesn't qualify as jobs for the boys as he must've impressed Mourinho in a seminar. Why is the reason Giggs is in the position he is not because of what he demonstrated over a 20 year career? When thinking of the answer remember Faria is not only a man who hadn't worked in football but hadn't worked at all.
 
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