There's plenty of decent managers in there, but the vast majority of them are just that - decent, and the fact that we were dominating doesn't change that. All leagues will have decent managers, on a level with guys like Pardew, O'Neill, Moyes etc. Moyes, for example, had a chance at the top. His problem wasn't other teams dominating - it was that he wasn't good enough. Bobby Robson was incredibly unlucky to never win a league title, but the rest on that list are mostly all just okay without being brilliant.
Ryan Giggs | United confirm he's left
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There's plenty of decent managers in there, but the vast majority of them are just that - decent, and the fact that we were dominating doesn't change that. All leagues will have decent managers, on a level with guys like Pardew, O'Neill, Moyes etc. Moyes, for example, had a chance at the top. His problem wasn't other teams dominating - it was that he wasn't good enough. Bobby Robson was incredibly unlucky to never win a league title, but the rest on that list are mostly all just okay without being brilliant.
I find it odd if he's indeed just "sitting around" waiting for the opportunity to take over as our manager. Would certainly see him do a couple of seasons outside the club and start moulding his managerial persona.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he's doing. It makes sense.
If he goes away, chances of him doing well enough as a manager for us to ever take him back are remote. But as long as he's in the club, if things don't go well with Mourinho, we might try a different route later on. Oh, and guess who's still around to take it...
For the sake of himself and the club it's best if he moves on. I would be interested to see him manager the under 21 side if Joyce leaves however.
You have become a bit strident, @devilish. No one has to answer your questions. @Dante says he would like a Manchester manager/set up; failing that a British one. Football used to be tribal, and in that sense his sense of identity is admirable. You are right; the British are not a race. But some people (not me), see their identity as British, and that's perfectly cool too. Alex Ferguson was a great coach. No doubt in the years ahead other British coaches will emerge with credit. It is not a big deal. Yeah?
Assistant manager to two consecutive failed reigns means the door anywhere else a part from MUFC at the moment.
if so keen to have someone to help keep the ethos and traditions alive then surely it is now the time to approach G Neville who, although he overreached by going to Valencia, has proven himself to be nothing but a committed, bright and articulate football man with the hunger now to prove himself. Surely working right alongside one of the greatest managers of all time would be the perfect next step for him?
He commands respect and he's a dye in the wool red.
if so keen to have someone to help keep the ethos and traditions alive then surely it is now the time to approach G Neville who, although he overreached by going to Valencia, has proven himself to be nothing but a committed, bright and articulate football man with the hunger now to prove himself. Surely working right alongside one of the greatest managers of all time would be the perfect next step for him?
He commands respect and he's a dye in the wool red.
This might be the craziest thing I read on Caf. Or at least since I last read Twigginater's posts.
Giggs has damaged his reputation by hanging around failed regimes too long. Add that to his tabloid problems, which hint at some worrying psychological issues, and he may well struggle to get a decent job in premier league management. I wouldn't give him a job.
Ive no idea how Utd fans cannot know he was not David Moyes assistant. Though it's not as big a list of failures if we ignore that fact.
Ditch Giggs, promote Joyce.
Fair play for correcting me on that. Simply forgot. And, whether due to profile/media, he always seemed a fair more prominent figure during that time than Round and Lumsden did.
There is nothing near official about Joyce going to Blackburn. He has been offered managerial roles in the past and turned them all down and there is no real indication that this time will be any different.
Sack him. Give Mourinho full control, no more prancing around.
I think Jose is better off sticking with Giggs.
Now there's an interesting thought.
worrying psychological issues? We all loved Anderson when he said feck feck feck. Giggs likes to have sex. Hardly worrying.When someone makes a bold statement then he's bound to be asked questions about it, which surely can't be avoided with insults and libellous and baseless accusations. Returning to the subject, Dante seem to believe that the British people originate from 1 race and that people should be appointed out of their origin. I believe in meritocracy, were origins are an asset but always come second behind experience, talent and a winning and well proven method. I also think that Britain hasn't developed a decent manager for decades (the trophies list sort of back me out) and because I am a practical man who wants United to have as many options possible, I think that the FA should look at it and sort this issue by improving its training. If I believed that British coaches are crap from 'birth' or 'race', then I wouldn't say so because no amount of quality training would sort that out wouldn't it?
There again according to Dante I am the bigot an accusation that I'm hoping that the mods will take a serious look at and act accordingly
You know me enough by now that if I have something against anything I wouldn't hesitate one second in saying that. How can I be against British managers when nearly all the honours brought to the right side of Manchester were brought by British (specifically Scottish) managers. Just because someone may criticize an aspect of something that doesn't mean he hate or undervalue something. In matter of fact I find it hilarious not to give a job to a football person (actually anybody but we're talking about football) just because he's a Brit especially considering Britain's long history in producing wonderful managers.
If there's something I do not rate is the FA. We're talking of an association who refused to let England participate in the WC at a time when they actually could win it. An organization which stubbornly opposed our entrance in the European cup, a decision which according to Sir Bobby costed England the best team it ever had. Time passed but their brainfarts remained consistent from their brilliant 90 minute rule, to the 2 hours professional restriction for youth talent (which was criticized by SAF) to their reluctance to introduce the winter break. So I apologise if I don't have a lot of faith in them developing the new crop of managers especially since the last top quality English manager who was able to win something truly important had retired if not died long ago.
I also find the excuse of language a bit weak. For example the Italians are taught 1 language (at least the people till mid 30s were taught 1 language) but that didn't stop Italian managers to win league titles and CLs with foreign clubs, from Capello to Ranieri, from Ancelotti to Vialli right to Di Matteo, Mancini and Trapattoni, the Italians keep producing managers capable of winning important honours abroad.
Regarding your list of 'very good' managers if you remove the ones who retired, whom would you think would you be comfortable to appoint if lets say you're Spurs owners (ie a top 5 club). Im avoiding mentioning the top gun clubs for fairness sake
I really fail to see what he brings other than bad news.
Ever since Fergie left our dressing room is in shambles, players leaking out news right left center, no rallying call, no focus, no urgency, nothing. Poor job from the captain (Rooney) and Giggs (Assistant Manager). Why do I blame Giggs? He was hired to be the bridge with the United tradition, but all we see are worms out of the can. Where is the supposedly "Giggs' good influence, leadership, and example for the rest of the squad"? I see none of that, none. On the opposite our players are becoming fanny and far from what we were under SAF
So in essence : He's not doing a good job, if not a terrible job.
Technical/tactical = nothing show, he might / might not have any input, but both scenario are equally damning
Leading by example = none. What has he shown during this last 3 years? No statement of support, no nothing, nadda
United values = None, I don't see anything of United of the old the last 3 years
Potential = nope. I see nothing like that in him other than his buddies trying to make it looks like so, only "he's perfect for united" without any logical explanation other than "united through and through". I was looking at something like "Has learnt to manage u21", "has won the promotion in championship", "has managed to steady the ship", or something tangible
Attitude = Don't get me started, leaving aside his extra curicullum activities he shows no special trait like SAF, he's just a wooden log.
feck him, I don't even think he's better than Joyce to take over the U-21, let alone being the odd one in a team of well drilled veteran in Jose's old ragtag buddies.
Ever since Fergie left our dressing room is in shambles, players leaking out news right left center, no rallying call, no focus, no urgency, nothing. Poor job from the captain (Rooney) and Giggs (Assistant Manager). Why do I blame Giggs? He was hired to be the bridge with the United tradition, but all we see are worms out of the can. Where is the supposedly "Giggs' good influence, leadership, and example for the rest of the squad"? I see none of that, none. On the opposite our players are becoming fanny and far from what we were under SAF
So in essence : He's not doing a good job, if not a terrible job.
Technical/tactical = nothing show, he might / might not have any input, but both scenario are equally damning
Leading by example = none. What has he shown during this last 3 years? No statement of support, no nothing, nadda
United values = None, I don't see anything of United of the old the last 3 years
Potential = nope. I see nothing like that in him other than his buddies trying to make it looks like so, only "he's perfect for united" without any logical explanation other than "united through and through". I was looking at something like "Has learnt to manage u21", "has won the promotion in championship", "has managed to steady the ship", or something tangible
Attitude = Don't get me started, leaving aside his extra curicullum activities he shows no special trait like SAF, he's just a wooden log.
feck him, I don't even think he's better than Joyce to take over the U-21, let alone being the odd one in a team of well drilled veteran in Jose's old ragtag buddies.
Replacing Joyce with Giggs would be a downgrade for the U21 lads
Don't we all. But he seems to let it damage his public image and come across as untrustworthy. If I were a club owner I wouldn't want him on as public face of my club. If I was his PR firm I would ask him to seek treatment for sex addiction. What the truth of his situation is, I cannot say. But you seldom see him smile.
The unfortunate part, for him, is that this United board will always look at the most accomplished or most promising manager around. There is no way the Glazers will take a massive gamble on an unproven manager after Moyes and if Ryan stays in the shadows that's what he will always be, whether he fifty or going on seventy. No matter the period there will always be a flavour of the month type of manager that will always be more attractive than a legendary ex-player, if he stays he risks confining himself to just coaching.
You do know Giggs was the manager's assistant, not the manager himself? Just someone obliged to follow and implement the "philosophy" of someone else?
So he's been irrelevant all this time.
Let's keep him for more irrelevance, beard scratching and arm folding on the touch line.
Then why the need to employ him ?
At least Rui Faria will give some input and knows Jose's SOP clearly.
This Giggs love in is just a romantic notion. Assistant under Moyes and a total failure, assistant under LVG and another failed reign. Someone please explain to me what signs there have been from Giggs in the last three years that suggest he deserves another crack at a number two, never mind becoming the main man.
The only thing that gives him credence is his unrivalled playing career here. That should never be enough.
*Edit - only just seen post from 'rednotdead' - nail on the head !
The only thing that gives him credence is his unrivalled playing career here. That should never be enough.
*Edit - only just seen post from 'rednotdead' - nail on the head !
If you think about it, it's a glass half-full, glass half empty type of thing. You just don't get it.
The upside is that this sort of coach, Giggs, he is loyal to the club. He is not a mercenary whose only loyalty lies with manager. And that could lead to a serious division problem that we actually saw at Chelsea, Eva Carneiro situation and the rest. Big part of the problem was that Mourinho people supported him, not Chelsea, their employer. And also they could not disagree with him or go against him, even if that would have been beneficial for the club which led to a meltdown.
So it's not worse to actually have at least mixed backroom staff with people from managers side, who he likes to work with but also some people that are employed by the club.
Fascinating, drivelish waltzing into a thread about British intellectual aspirants and polluting it with his xenophobic, anti-British nonsense. Well color me fecking surprised.
I'm 100% certain Fergie and Bobby will do all they can to keep Giggs at the club in an important role.
No doubt they are the reason he hung around when Moyes was sacked.
This 'old guard' British culture at our club is exactly what has held us back these last 3 years.
No doubt they are the reason he hung around when Moyes was sacked.
This 'old guard' British culture at our club is exactly what has held us back these last 3 years.
He is like the annoying son that wont leave home, he needs to cut the strings and get some experience away from OT, until he does that he will not be taken seriously.
I am reading other place that some United fans say the job should've been in because he is United thought and thought, WHY ? because his has been him all his career, that means nothing, he has done nothing to warrent being the United manager, his short stint has caretaker was just that short and what has he done in his stint has Assistant.
I not doubting he has the talent but he needs to prove it away from OT and in 5-6 years he does that and is successful, I am sure he will be welcomed back.
I am reading other place that some United fans say the job should've been in because he is United thought and thought, WHY ? because his has been him all his career, that means nothing, he has done nothing to warrent being the United manager, his short stint has caretaker was just that short and what has he done in his stint has Assistant.
I not doubting he has the talent but he needs to prove it away from OT and in 5-6 years he does that and is successful, I am sure he will be welcomed back.
Incorrect. Check your facts, lad.
Really,I need to ask why ?
What an odd attack @devilish. I always thought the term British came from the fact that the Island of Britain was inhabited by the ancient Celtic Britons. It's kind of like the way the term Irish comes from the fact that that the Island of Ireland was inhabited by the ancient Celtic Irish.
On the manager front I think you are being unfair. Particularly since English football has been dominated for much of the last 30 years by a man whose ethnicity was Scottish. Just to clarify, the term Scottish refers to the fact that North of the Forth was inhabited by 'Scots', or ancient Celtic Scots.
I think you are letting Pardew cloud your judgement
On the manager front I think you are being unfair. Particularly since English football has been dominated for much of the last 30 years by a man whose ethnicity was Scottish. Just to clarify, the term Scottish refers to the fact that North of the Forth was inhabited by 'Scots', or ancient Celtic Scots.
I think you are letting Pardew cloud your judgement
Me neither but so many don't!
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I wish I could dictate what my job is when I get a new boss.
How often do you get demoted when you get a new boss?
When everyone else around me gets fired a demotion would seem like a decent result?
Have you ever got a new boss and been demoted?
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