As a player he was a gun but as a coach he is pretty shit
Ryan Giggs | United confirm he's left
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Giggs is now the third member of senior management who appears to feel wronged by his treatment by the club. Moyes and LVG seemed amazed to be sacked and Giggs appears to feel let down that he didn't get the job.
From an outsider looking in all 3 appear crazy to feel aggrieved. Moyes and LVG performed terribly and Giggs should be nowhere near the manager's job. The only reason to feel let down is if they have been given a different expectation by the club.
My impression of Woodward (and this is based on absolutely nothing other than the above and LVG's arrogance when his sacking seemed inevitable) is that he tells everyone what they want to hear. If Giggs had no expectation of getting the manager job he would be an excellent member of the backroom staff.
For a moment I was genuinely scared that the old guard would get their way and he would become manager. Common sense said that Moyes was a terrible appointment then,it was screaming that this would be an even worse one. All the rival fans wanted us to hire Giggs as manager.
Ryan Giggs leaving United after 29 years is sad,Ryan Giggs being sacked as United manager after 30 plus years at the club would have been even worse. Let him go and earn this job. It shouldn't matter how many games he played for United when it comes to selecting our new boss.
Even if Woodward promised Giggs he would get the job, which we don't know if it happened, Giggs must have realized it isn't working. Moyes and LVG reigns were failures and it's logical he needs to go. Anyway Mourinho wants to have his own staff. I don't think he thought he'd get the job no matter the consequences..
Moyes and LVG may be aggrieved or something but letting them go was a good and any logical decision by Woodward and I don't see his fault in any of this.
Maybe promising Giggs the managerial spot if it happened.
Two roads leading to Gigg's succession to the throne ended in cul-de-sacs. Had no other choice but to choose another road and see where that leads him.
I agree with the decisions. All 3 were no brainers. But, Moyes was off scouting Toni Kroos and who knows else just before being sacked. LVG was hugging Woodward after the cup final and his belligerence in press conferences suggested he was incredibly confident of keeping his job.
Who knows? I could be completely wrong here but when it happens 3 times it is hard to argue that all 3 were simply deluded.
They were deluded, it wasn't Woodward's fault.
LVG is deluded whatever you tell him. I bet even if Woodward told him he's finished he would just say "No, I shan't go."
Nobody has any fecking idea what happened behind the scenes.
Whilst Moyes and LvG may have failed to deliver they are not completely to blame as Woodward and Glazers played a major part in their downfall. Its unfortunate that they are bound by some confidentiality agreements but if they give their side of the story you will start to see things differently.
Giggs was a player-coach during the Moyes reign and I dont understand why he gets blamed for that because he had very little, if any, input to make since he was also fighting for a place in the team. As for LvG reign, his role was to do opposition scouting and try and replicate how the opposition plays and by his own admission LvG usually refused to listen to his coaching staff because he was very stubborn and Giggs got frustrated which is why he refused to comment or defend LvG's methods publicly
They were deluded, it wasn't Woodward's fault.
LVG is deluded whatever you tell him. I bet even if Woodward told him he's finished he would just say "No, I shan't go."
Maybe. Or maybe he told him to forget the media speculation and he understood it was a 3 year project while he and his wife were sharing an expensive bottle of wine with Louis and Truus.
Exactly. Just a bunch of outsiders trying to analyse facial expressions on the bench and tabloid gossip.
Sad to see such a legend go. Hope his management career is a roaring success and he comes home one day.
Didn't Giggs recommend LVG for the England job, what does that say about Gigg's view of LVG then?
That's true. However that applies to players of the previous generations as well. What players of previous generations would usually do was either retire and get on with their lives or join smaller clubs either as players or as player/coaches, player/manager or simply coaches. Dont take me wrong they all had dreams to return to home base at one point. However they would want to prove themselves first and make sure that the club wants them.
What we're seeing now is a wave of players who are ready to play over the supporter's sentiment and cause rifts within the club just to stay for a year or two. Players who would rather go to punditry then get their hands dirty by coaching at small clubs or in a tiny role at their current side. There's this level of entitlement and that total disregard towards the legacy a legend had built through the years that wasn't present before. I mean can you imagine 20-30 years ago players retiring from the national team because the manager was mean with them because he prefers playing better players ahead of them or go 'AWOL' prior to an England's game only to turn perfectly fit for their club? Can you imagine if lets say a young and inexperienced Zoff came to OT as manager in the pre SAF era and said that he can't really give his 100% because he has 'other commitments'? This sort of rubbish was unheard off before
Of course there are things he saw in LvG that were good because he is an experienced manager after all. I would like to believe that from Jan to May something changed because we started to play, not brilliantly, but much better and with a bit of precision we could have won lots of games convincingly
I can play this game...
Giggs told Boris to campaign for Brexit. The swine.
Giggs told Boris to campaign for Brexit. The swine.
I think there are a few reasons for that. First of all, player power is greater now than ever before. Plus, players are used to a certain cushy standard of living and the disparity in wages between the PL clubs and the rest of the footballing structure has grown tremendously. There's a lot more money in punditry too nowadays. So yes, some of that is money related but I also think those options weren't as lucrative for past generations so there wasn't as much of a choice to make.
I'll agree that legacy is a lot less important to players now than it used to be. I think the media is also a part of that though because if you chummy up to the right journalist you get written about favorably whereas if you piss off the wrong people you get bashed to no end. How much of public perception is really down to what players did compared to how the media wrote about it?
Glad he's moving on. If he's any good he can come back some day. We've never had any evidence that he's a good coach or would make a good manager.
Sick of hearing how he'd be great because he has respect the respect of the players and learned from SAF. You could say that about dozens of players who played for United over the last 30 years. How many of them are managing top clubs right now?
Sick of hearing how he'd be great because he has respect the respect of the players and learned from SAF. You could say that about dozens of players who played for United over the last 30 years. How many of them are managing top clubs right now?
How the feck do you know this?
He said it live on TV.
One thing you are leaving out in your pemutations: part of Woodward's job is to avoid rocking the ship so to do just that he has to wear a 'business as usua' face because if both managers knew they were done before hand chaos would have ensued. Surely these are grown men and they should have enough insight to know on their own that failure has consequences. Woodward shouldn't rock the boat during the season and telling to senior members of the management team that they are done is doing exactly that.
I may be able to accept Woodward's inexperience in the transfer market made things more difficult for Moyes, though I doubt a couple of players would have saved him from himself. The man was under par.
I don't see how the Glazers or Woodward played a part in Van Gaal's fall. It was his own fault.
What would you have done? Tell them beforehand they might be sacked so they shouldn't bother?
If Moyes was amazed then he's an idiot. And he may be. We keep hearing about how he thought that getting a six-year contract meant he was safe for six years. That's crazy. And it seems to be his big complaint, that he wasn't given that time.
He didn't. He said that it would be good for the new England manager to have someone with experience to consult him and named Hoddle, Venables, Ferguson and van Gaal as examples. I don't think that Ferguson would do it and van Gaal is a bit of a horseshit idea, but apart from that I don't see anything wrong with what he said.
It's a theory based on three senior management figures leaving with a very similar level of discontent which seems incredible looking in from the outside. My conclusion (which may be utter nonsense) is that they were given assurances by the powers that be. Maybe not and all 3 are just deluded idiots.
Think there has been a concerted affort by Woodward/Glazers to get rid of anyone connected with SAF from the Club ever since Moyes left.
Paul McGuinness was pushed out,
Mclair left,
Butt only got the Head of Academy after some negayive articles about the shambles at the Academy but Ed was frustrating him to leave by offering him a contract which was less than what he was earning when he was U19 coach
Giggs was offered a demotion so that he could leave, not even a 1st teach role but some obscure post that would have clashed with Warren Joyce's role. How could he be the bridge of U21s and 1st Team when he was not allowed anywher close to 1st Team
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Paul McGuinness was pushed out,
Mclair left,
Butt only got the Head of Academy after some negayive articles about the shambles at the Academy but Ed was frustrating him to leave by offering him a contract which was less than what he was earning when he was U19 coach
Giggs was offered a demotion so that he could leave, not even a 1st teach role but some obscure post that would have clashed with Warren Joyce's role. How could he be the bridge of U21s and 1st Team when he was not allowed anywher close to 1st Team
Up next will be the club ambassadors
It isn't when you look at their behaviour outside of dealing with Woodward...
1. Moyes - aside from his poor decisions at Utd, look at his behaviour since leaving, he's shown a deluded entitlement that he seemed to think he was owed an elite job AFTER Utd. Even after his sacking in Spain, he really seemed to believe he was bigger than the jobs open to him. This is while top managers like Rafa are taking jobs like Newcastle.
Moyes has definitely shown levels of delusion independent of Woodward.
2. van Gaal - even before United, there are many Bayern fans that would describe Van Gaal as deluded, just as there are many players who would.
Since he arrived here, so many of his decisions were so odd that it's difficult to know where to begin.
Woodward didn't force van Gaal to captain an aging striker and then announce, publicly, that he wouldn't ever drop said player.
van Gaal asked, again publicly, specifically for di Maria, Woodward got him, van Gaal can't utilize him.
The '3 at the back' period, Ashley Young as a striker, Rooney in midfield, Phil Jones on corners, selling Hernandez, selling Nani, Daley Blind as a CB (he isn't one), playing Romero for 4/5 games (thus costing CL football, and arguably, his own job), endless bizarre substitutions and rants.
I'd also argue that at the end trying to hypnotize the fanbase into believing that their own expectations (of qualifying for the CL after spending 250m) were 'much too high', was genuinely deluded.
van Gaal has definitely shown levels of delusion independent of Woodward.
3. Giggs - The clear one with Giggs is obviously his personal decisions which, to be honest, for me does show some level of delusion. But I don't like people's private lives being public property so lets just look at his time here as a failed A.M...
The way his press campaign/media push over the last year was so transparent, clunky and badly thought through was at best extremely naive, and at worst deluded. Having his cronies in the media continuously criticize his boss while they openly praised Giggs was crazy.
If he thought he had a chance of being given the managers job AFTER failing as an A.M, he's deluded.
Giggs has definitely shown levels of delusion independent of Woodward.
So yeah, to me, they all seem more deluded and self obsessed than Woodward's actions show him to be.
He didn't pick Moyes.
He gave van Gaal more time than any other elite club would've done.
He gave Ryan Giggs an incredible opportunity and a position that Giggs should be grateful for (what had he done to deserve being A.M?).
Herrera confirming it before the club does.
If we had a clear two team league he might have a chance but it's so cut throat in the EPL we simply can't take the risk
I hope he can look at Fergie and other great managers around Europe who were top players and see how they had to start off small
I hope he can look at Fergie and other great managers around Europe who were top players and see how they had to start off small
I've seen some terrible analogies on here but that one could be right at the top. Asking what you base an opinion is childish now? Good to know.
Another one of his cronies.
Leaves club: confirmed by United.
Confirmed
Unsurprisingly says thanks to SAF and LVG, good luck to Mourinho and no mention of Moyes
Unsurprisingly says thanks to SAF and LVG, good luck to Mourinho and no mention of Moyes
Right move for Giggsy. Hopefully he'll be back, in the role he was obviously wants, someday.
No mention of Moyes, shocking
From club website:
From club website:
Nice dig at Moyes
Ideal scenario is he becomes a great manager and returns in the future, reality is he'll be more a Bruce than a Pep
Thanks for everything Giggsy.
Sad day but correct decision for everybody. Hopefully he will be back one day as a succesful manager.
My favourite player ever. Wonderful memories. The definition of a term LEGEND.
My favourite player ever. Wonderful memories. The definition of a term LEGEND.
Thanks for the memories Giggs. Amazing player, one of my favourites and I hope to have him back at United as a successful and experienced manager one day. The club has changed so much over the last couple of years, let's hope it's just what is needed.
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