Ryan Giggs | United confirm he's left

[acnumber9]

Manchester United, managed by a Manchester United legend from Manchester doing things the Manchester United way.

I'd still want success, but I'd be prouder if one of our own did it. I'm a Manc so the local nature of our club is really important to me.

I'm not from Manchester so him being mancunian isn't a big deal for me. I don't understand why it isn't everyone's dream to see a legend of the club continuing that though. I understand the doubts certainly. The hatred or dislike for him I find completely baffling. Success with Giggs would be much sweeter than it would with Mourinho. I think the club does need Mourinho right now though. If he can get us back on track I'd love to see Giggs take it on and see if he can continue that.

 

[Mr.Kaya]

Ok. Why does he have to be the #2? Why cant he be part of the coaching staff? Benefit to Giggs is a season or 2 learning what Mourinho does. What is bad about that? The reality is that he has only a short amount of time as a #2, Mourinho for example spent much long as have many other managers. I think its still too early for him to manage, he still has a lot to learn and how is it bad if he is part of the coaching setup and learning from Mourinho. He doesnt have to be the #2 to do that.

Because he's already been assistant manager under Moyes and LvG, which ended in both getting fired. I'm not saying all this is Giggs fault, but he's still a part of the failure under those managers. Also, if he wants to become a manager for us one day, he needs to take the step up sooner or later. Of course he still has a lot to learn, but do you think he's developing as a manager if he continues in this assistant role for yet another manager? I don't. It might be too early for him to train a team in one of the biggest leagues, but he has to start one place anyway. Maybe the reserveteam, but then again we got Joyce there who's doing a great job. And do we really know if Giggs actually wants to continue as assistmanager under Mourinho anyway? I'm sure he really wanted to take over for LvG, but when a guy like Mourinho is without job, it's not really a tough choise is it. For all we know Giggs could be a very dissapointed man right now and think that the only way he can become a manager for the club he loves the most, is by leaving the club now and manage a club himself.

 

[Oaencha]

Don't get me wrong... I like Mourinho and would welcome him here, all things considered. But I'd rather finish third with Giggsy than top with Jose.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but that is 'frogs in a box' crazy. I would rather we won the league with Giggs than win it with Mourinho, but actually preferring not to win silverware just to have Giggs as manager makes very little sense.

 

[devilish]

You just asked those two questions for no reason at all in the middle of this thread? Not implying anything at all? I'm sure.

Again, you may well be right about the coaching system. That doesn't have anything to do with a person's nationality though so your two remarkably implicationless questions are still off.

Plus I already answered your second question. I can't list the number of managers but there have been very few.

I was questioning Dante who implied that British people are a race and who was avoiding answering the second question (Can you list a number of British managers (who aren't dead or retired) who were successful in football? Really successful I mean, (CL, league titles in top leagues etc)). I tried to force his hand in answering and only got insults and serious allegations in exchange

Nationality has nothing to do with it. Even suggesting that would be stupid especially considering how many top quality British managers they were in football history. However using Political correct BS to hide the fact that something is terribly wrong in the way the FA is developing the new managers is counter productive and stupid and is not helping the English game at all. There's nothing wrong in learning from others. For example the Italians (masters of tactics bla bla bla) are trying hard to copy the British financial model. No one would take it at heart if someone said that the current financial model used by the Italian clubs (ie basically rely on the sugar daddy) suck. Everyone agree to that

PS You would answer the second question if you say that there is noone. That's the situation at the moment UNFORTUNATELY

 

[Kaos]

I'm not from Manchester so him being mancunian isn't a big deal for me. I don't understand why it isn't everyone's dream to see a legend of the club continuing that though. I understand the doubts certainly. The hatred or dislike for him I find completely baffling. Success with Giggs would be much sweeter than it would with Mourinho. I think the club does need Mourinho right now though. If he can get us back on track I'd love to see Giggs take it on and see if he can continue that.

Its not hard to dislike a man who had an affair with his brother's wife, told her to get an abortion to cover it up, and then continues to cheat on his own wife. As decorated and as much as a club legend he is, it doesn't make excuse him from being an absolute cnut of a man. There's also the arrogance of him thinking he's entitled to the OT job despite not having proved himself outside of his role as AM in two failed managerial regimes.

 

[GE]

Its not hard to dislike a man who had an affair with his brother's wife, told her to get an abortion to cover it up, and then continues to cheat on his own wife. As decorated and as much as a club legend he is, it doesn't make excuse him from being an absolute cnut of a man. There's also the arrogance of him thinking he's entitled to the OT job despite not having proved himself outside of his role as AM in two failed managerial regimes.

Agreed.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Nice thread.

International, cnutish ignorants doing their best to appear non-biased to possibly biased Brits (who may be cnuts).

 

[PeteManic]

There must be some reason why he wasn't pushed for this. Is it a behind the scenes professional decision? A personal one? (I'm 100% not interested in his personal life for the record and don't want to discuss it here). He was Fergie's ultimate golden boy and I'm surprised he wasn't groomed more intensely for the job.

If he had retired earlier and had been in Fergie's staff he would surely have been the manager then with Phelan and Rene behind him.

Those higher up in the club are truly afraid of the changing landscape in the PL. With all the big guns coming back next year with big name managers everyone is afraid of not making the top 4. Fear is a powerful thing.

Pity about Giggs. We will never know

 

[Stack]

In some areas it doesn't work that way. Football management is a stressful thing and the manager must have 100% trust in his own people. That's why they tend to drag the same people around time and time again. Both manager and staff know that if the manager fails then his own people will end up jobless. We created a silly situation were there's a coach that is untouchable (not even by the manager) and whose chance of him getting a promotion is for the manager to fail. That's bad even if Giggs is the most geniune person on earth

To answer your question. I think that its time for him to get a feel of the real job. There's a big gap between being an assistant manager and being a manager and no amount of experience for the former will prepare you for the latter. If that was the case then the likes of Kidd, Mclaren and Phelan would be competing for the treble by now

Fair enough.
On this we will have to disagree. I dont think he is yet ready for a full managerial job. I think he needs a couple more years as an assistant or within the coaching ranks. Just as a player needs a number of years from junior to youth to senior to develop skills, technique and knowledge to become a senior player the same is with managing. Coaching requires a completely different set of skills to coach and manager. The ability to teach and the tools required to do that need to be learned and practised.
For him to have a chance to be a success as a mangager he still needs to finish his apprenticeship, he isnt even half way through it yet. Players who go straight into management very very rarely become title winning managers. Where is Tim Sherwood these days?

Your examples of Kidd, Mclaren and Phelan ignores the many many reasons why managers never win trophies.

 

[Americano]

It's funny how there are three positive paragraphs about Giggs in the "Inside Story" of Van Gaal's demise:

If Van Gaal’s departure is followed by that of Ryan Giggs, there will be sadness at the loss of the Welshman, however, who has the backing of many senior players to become the club’s manager.

Giggs has impressed the squad with his coaching and his tactical analysis of opponents – the specific job he has been assigned by Van Gaal.

There is a belief within the squad that Giggs has kept his own counsel on Van Gaal’s approach in order not to rock the boat, but he retains the respect and admiration of the players, many of whom feel that a major rebuilding job is required to make the team competitive again.

 

[sullydnl]

Nice thread.

International, cnutish ignorants doing their best to appear non-biased to possibly biased Brits (who may be cnuts).

I'll have you know some of us possible cnuts are Irish, you terrible racist.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I'll have you know some of us possible cnuts are Irish, you terrible racist.

I knew it! Even worse. Or just the same. Welsh, Irish, Danish - it's all the same. You're probably one of them Muslims too, I shouldn't wonder.

 

[devilish]

Fair enough.
On this we will have to disagree. I dont think he is yet ready for a full managerial job. I think he needs a couple more years as an assistant or within the coaching ranks. Just as a player needs a number of years from junior to youth to senior to develop skills, technique and knowledge to become a senior player the same is with managing. Coaching requires a completely different set of skills to coach and manager. The ability to teach and the tools required to do that need to be learned and practised.
For him to have a chance to be a success as a mangager he still needs to finish his apprenticeship, he isnt even half way through it yet. Players who go straight into management very very rarely become title winning managers. Where is Tim Sherwood these days?

There's no denying that a year or two as assistant manager helps. However we need to acknowledge that they are two completely separate jobs. If that's not the case then most of the assistant managers working under top managers would do well in football which we know its not the case.

Ryan Giggs had worked under Harrison and SAF, he had also worked under LVG and Moyes. How many managers does he need to work under before he can spread his wings? I agree he's not ready yet. However failing is most of the time a necessary step to succeed. After all most of the managers ended up sacked especially early in their career (SAF, Simeone, Ancelotti, Clough etc). Honestly, if I was a Championship side Id rather employ Gaz now (that he's tasted management) rather few months ago when he was a self pompious punk who promised to give his 95% to one of the finest teams in the world who gave him a unique opportunity other people would probably sell their mother for

 

[gza the genius]

Mourinho likely won't be here longer than 3-4 years, Giggs should go prove himself elsewhere if he really wants the United job. It will be sad to see him go but it's probably for the best for the time being.

 

[chicha14]

let him take over the u21's for a few seasons and nurture players he will use in the first team when he takes over next.

 

[MoskvaRed]

I don't get the argument that he will become a significantly better manager by sitting next to Mourinho for a few more years. None of Fergie's assistants imbibed his magic when they tried to make the step up, and no one is suggesting Steve Clark or Rui Faria as the next United manager. On the other hand, Giggs will provide a potentially destabilising presence even if he himself is entirely innocent - if things get rough for Mourinho, he would just be a natural rallying point for those looking for simplistic solutions and a return to the good old days.

He's also 43 in November. While I appreciate Giggs had an unusually long playing career, Mourinho had won the Champions League by that age and Fergie was breaking up the Old Firm. Among the current generation, he is not much younger than Pochettino, Pep or Simeone. If he is serious about trying management, he needs to get out there now and, firstly, see if he can cope as the number one and then build up a CV. The idea we could give to a rookie a job that broke an experienced EPL manager and has proved too much for a big beast like Van Gaal is just absurd.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I could easily be wrong but I think Mourinho and the club have offered him a role in the new set up. Possibly as the new U-21's manager.

 

[devilish]

I don't get the argument that he will become a significantly better manager by sitting next to Mourinho for a few more years. None of Fergie's assistants imbibed his magic when they tried to make the step up, and no one is suggesting Steve Clark or Rui Faria as the next United manager. On the other hand, Giggs will provide a potentially destabilising presence even if he himself is entirely innocent - if things get rough for Mourinho, he would just be a natural rallying point for those looking for simplistic solutions and a return to the good old days.

He's also 43 in November. While I appreciate Giggs had an unusually long playing career, Mourinho had won the Champions League by that age and Fergie was breaking up the Old Firm. Among the current generation, he is not much younger than Pochettino, Pep or Simeone. If he is serious about trying management, he needs to get out there now and, firstly, see if he can cope as the number one and then build up a CV. The idea we could give to a rookie a job that broke an experienced EPL manager and has proved too much for a big beast like Van Gaal is just absurd.

this

 

[Amir]

Fair enough.
On this we will have to disagree. I dont think he is yet ready for a full managerial job. I think he needs a couple more years as an assistant or within the coaching ranks. Just as a player needs a number of years from junior to youth to senior to develop skills, technique and knowledge to become a senior player the same is with managing. Coaching requires a completely different set of skills to coach and manager. The ability to teach and the tools required to do that need to be learned and practised.
For him to have a chance to be a success as a mangager he still needs to finish his apprenticeship, he isnt even half way through it yet. Players who go straight into management very very rarely become title winning managers. Where is Tim Sherwood these days.

I just don't see the manager's role as something you do a 'full apprenticeship' for. You can have all the preperation in the world, but still sink when you're actually the manager. You can have little preperation, and do very well. There's so much instinct and natural ability there, rather than learning to do it.

He should go out and get a bloody job somewhere. That'll show what he can do. It'll also be the best learning curve if he's got the ability.

 

[fishfingers15]

If he had to stay quiet under two underperforming managers without input into how we play and the players we sign and use, he should really get more experience elsewhere instead of being a puppet assistant manager to Mourinho.

 

[spwd]

If he thinks he's good enough for us he should be going out there applying for all the other top ish jobs such as Everton, prove himself then we would happily take him back when the time is right but I just can't see it happening.

I think he will just be part of our staff or an ambassador or pundit because he doesn't seem to want to go out and earn the right to be considered for this job, just wants it handed on a plate to him because he sat nice and quiet as AM for the last 3 years.

 

[stubie]

let him take over the u21's for a few seasons and nurture players he will use in the first team when he takes over next.

I'd rather Joyce remain in charge. If he goes to Blackburn then fair enough.

 

[Jacob]

He can go as far as I care. I don't like the idea of keeping people around for nostalgic reasons. Nothing suggests he is a valuable member of any coaching staff.

 

[Ducklegs]

He needs to go and find his own way, he has basically done nothing of substance for 3 years with two failed regimes.

In his position I would want a proper coaching role or a proper management role.

 

[Infra-red]

If he wants a career as a manager he should turn down whatever demotion the club are offering him and look to gain valuable experience elsewhere. If all he cares about is managing United, he might do well to continue to bide his time here and hope Mourinho crashes and burns.

 

[entropy]

At the crossroads..where is he gonna go..

 

[itso 7]

If he wants a career as a manager he should turn down whatever demotion the club are offering him and look to gain valuable experience elsewhere. If all he cares about is managing United, he might do well to continue to bide his time here and hope Mourinho crashes and burns.

The only role that would insulate him from an ugly Mourinho fallout would be with the U18s. Otherwise someone with Jose's paranoia would taint and take him down with him case in point if it was Mourinho in charge this season with the way Giggs' ex-teammates were sniping at Van Gaal I'm sure Mourinho would have ignored Scholes and found a way to point the finger at Giggs which would make it impossible for him to be appointed without being labelled a snake.
The person who placed Giggs in the managerial reckoning well before time effectively killed his coaching career at United until he is the boss himself. No other United manager is going to let him into his inner circle if he survives this blood path that has consumed LVG and his staff. Why would they trust his advice and opinions if he is held to a different standard after a collective failure? The best he can do now is move away and launch his career, forget about United for a bit and look to build on the experience he's been exposed to.

 

[acnumber9]

Its not hard to dislike a man who had an affair with his brother's wife, told her to get an abortion to cover it up, and then continues to cheat on his own wife. As decorated and as much as a club legend he is, it doesn't make excuse him from being an absolute cnut of a man. There's also the arrogance of him thinking he's entitled to the OT job despite not having proved himself outside of his role as AM in two failed managerial regimes.

Perhaps not. Though it has nothing do with football and didn't stop the majority from still liking him when he was a great player. The 'arrogance' consists of wanting a job he was told he had a chance of getting.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[m1y2]

two options he either goes out and seek a job which will suit him. It may not come easily as a lot of premier league clubs will not want to take risks and want to tie their managers soon, so maybe a club in championship? Who would take a risk on him? If he had an offer from Swans he should have taken it, would be a good club for him with no high expectations..

or he takes the U21 job and grind himself out as our Pep, over three years or so he will get to know his players and will have nothing to lose there..managing elsewhere could be really demanding in terms of results, he wouldnt be under any real pressure if he managed the youth team.. as I'm writing it I am starting to think that it's the most logical option.. he will not get a proper job elsewhere easily

 

[prarek]

At the crossroads..where is he gonna go..

I think Mourinho will find a place for him in his staff. Bit like how Zidane was at Real Madrid.
.

 

[Dobbs]

let him take over the u21's for a few seasons and nurture players he will use in the first team when he takes over next.

Poor Warren Joyce.

Not sure managing the U21's will move Giggs much closer to being United boss.

Time for him to try management. Forget about any future as United boss, first he needs to see if he enjoys it. He won't know for sure until he tries.

 

[.Rossi]

Poor Warren Joyce.

Not sure managing the U21's will move Giggs much closer to being United boss.

Time for him to try management. Forget about any future as United boss, first he needs to see if he enjoys it. He won't know for sure until he tries.

Joyce is going to Blackburn as their manager

 

[Will Singh]

Seriously if he gets another assistant role then for me he ain't got the bottle to be a UTD manager. He needs to go manage a team prove himself and in 3/4 years time he maybe ready and get the job.

I know it's a dream of his and probably most people that he manages but no way should he get the job because his a legend, I'd rather Eric Cantona or Keano took over then Giggs walking in....!

 

[Infra-red]

The only role that would insulate him from an ugly Mourinho fallout would be with the U18s. Otherwise someone with Jose's paranoia would taint and take him down with him case in point if it was Mourinho in charge this season with the way Giggs' ex-teammates were sniping at Van Gaal I'm sure Mourinho would have ignored Scholes and found a way to point the finger at Giggs which would make it impossible for him to be appointed without being labelled a snake.
The person who placed Giggs in the managerial reckoning well before time effectively killed his coaching career at United until he is the boss himself. No other United manager is going to let him into his inner circle if he survives this blood path that has consumed LVG and his staff. Why would they trust his advice and opinions if he is held to a different standard after a collective failure? The best he can do now is move away and launch his career, forget about United for a bit and look to build on the experience he's been exposed to.

I agree with your general point, but I would imagine that's exactly the type of role on offer (well away from the first team).

 

[Cheesy]

I don't get the argument that he will become a significantly better manager by sitting next to Mourinho for a few more years. None of Fergie's assistants imbibed his magic when they tried to make the step up, and no one is suggesting Steve Clark or Rui Faria as the next United manager. On the other hand, Giggs will provide a potentially destabilising presence even if he himself is entirely innocent - if things get rough for Mourinho, he would just be a natural rallying point for those looking for simplistic solutions and a return to the good old days.

He's also 43 in November. While I appreciate Giggs had an unusually long playing career, Mourinho had won the Champions League by that age and Fergie was breaking up the Old Firm. Among the current generation, he is not much younger than Pochettino, Pep or Simeone. If he is serious about trying management, he needs to get out there now and, firstly, see if he can cope as the number one and then build up a CV. The idea we could give to a rookie a job that broke an experienced EPL manager and has proved too much for a big beast like Van Gaal is just absurd.

Yeah, easy to forget how old he is because of how long he played for. Would definitely be a concern though. If Mourinho's here for, say, three or four years, then Giggs is potentially going to be only a couple of years off his 50s before taking a managerial job if he stays at the club.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'm not from Manchester so him being mancunian isn't a big deal for me. I don't understand why it isn't everyone's dream to see a legend of the club continuing that though. I understand the doubts certainly. The hatred or dislike for him I find completely baffling. Success with Giggs would be much sweeter than it would with Mourinho. I think the club does need Mourinho right now though. If he can get us back on track I'd love to see Giggs take it on and see if he can continue that.

Agreed. It's not the time for Giggs but how fantastic it would be "if" he could take over from a successful Mourinho at some point and steer us to success. Would love it, it's romantic, and you should never remove the romance from football. It's also part of the reason I've wanted José here so badly, he's wanted this job since the Porto match, not even Real Madrid compared for him, and I love that he's finally ended up back at the spot where he put himself on the map.

 

[Dobbs]

Joyce is going to Blackburn as their manager

Well that was a bit stupid of me and it now makes a bit more sense.

 

[Mainoldo]

Don't mind if he stays but should noway be assistant, that was a joke.

 

[Bury Red]

Ok so let me answer your question and then you answer to mine.

I think that there's a big problem in the coaching program in Britain, which is clearly shown by the fact that this once efficient manager's factory (Shankly, Busby, Clough, SAF, Paisley etc) hasn't produced 1 decent manager for a long long time. I also believe that unless there's an exceptional case (ex the one faced by Barcelona during Pep) a manager should have sound managerial experience to manage a top club.

Now please answer my questions


Since when the British people are a race?

Can you list a number of British managers (who aren't dead or retired) who were successful in football? Really successful I mean, (CL, league titles in top leagues etc)

Dev, you've clearly got a down on British managers but to be fair, the only criticisms you can level at them is that they tend to only speak English so managing in other leagues is really a non starter for most with rare exceptions like Bobby Robson. It's therefore not likely that you'll produce a list of hugely successful British managers apart from Fergie due to the dominance of United under Fergie, Arsenal under Wenger and the foreign legions at Chelsea, City and Liverpool Exclude those however and you'll find that a significant majority of the other managers who have come close in the Premier League (say qualified for Europe) have been British 43 out of 53.

Dalglish who won it with Blackburn, Keegan, Mike Walker, Ron Atkinson, Frank Clark, Roy Evans, Howard Wilkinson, Brian Little, George Graham, Roy Hodgson, David O Leary, Bobby Robson, Souness, Strachan, Alardyce, Steve Mclaren, Moyes, Hughes, Martin O Neill, Redknapp, Pardew, Sherwood & Rodgers. Maybe non of them quite sit at the top table in terms of global football management but there's at least half a dozen very good managers in there who unfortunately for them happened to be managing in the toughest league in world football at a time when you had 2 or 3 teams who dominated the league.

With the exceptions of Mourinho and Wenger, how many other foreign managers have come in and really set the premiership alight?