Ruben Amorim | United meet Sporting release clause

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Tiber said:
Seems reasonable
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It does. Although they are going to have to replace Amorim and the new guy is probably going to want his own team with him.

If we say "that's ok, we'll just take Ruben for now" - the likelihood is that the 3 lads are going to be free agents this time next week anyway.
 
diarm said:
Them guys huh! It's almost like they think there isn't just one generic contract that gets copied and pasted for every managerial appointment in Portugal.
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Yeah big brain Sporting huh? Forcing managers that have joined another club to stay in situ. What could possibly go wrong?
 
crossy1686 said:
Yeah big brain Sporting huh? Forcing managers that have joined another club to stay in situ. What could possibly go wrong?
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Whether or not we think it's a smart move on Sportings part, is a very different conversation to the one you've been having with everybody else on the thread over the past page or two.
 
DJ_21 said:
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€4m for 30 days would be terrible business. Unless we need to keep them sweet because we plan on negotiating for any of their players over the next couple of windows, I'd be calling their bluff here.
 
crossy1686 said:
So this only applies to Amorim? No other Portuguese player or manager has had to do this but our new manager is going to stay in his role for another 30 days?

You guys are on one today.
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Your critical thinking is non-existent. We’ve also said that it’s unlikely that Sporting will hold him to this as long as they can find a replacement as will be the case with every other player and manager before him.

It’s been discussed because it’s a nuance of Portuguese law and journalists are looking for clicks.
 
crossy1686 said:
How? His new job is in England. Portuguese employment law doesn't stretch to these lands. He can leave Sporting and can't work in Portugal for 30 days maybe, but he won't be in Portugal so what are they going to do? Deport him and make him sit on the beach for 30 days before he's allowed back on a flight?
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Its probably in his contract he signed stating that he has to serve the 30 day period if the buyout is activated, or forfeits x amount of money and it's this money that the club are after. They may be able to take him to court for the money if he doesnt abide and that could delay it further. Utd are probably willing to pay the extra, but maybe trying to negotiate it down, a bit like the Ashworth deal with Newcastle.
 
diarm said:
€4m for 30 days would be terrible business. Unless we need to keep them sweet because we plan on negotiating for any of their players over the next couple of windows, I'd be calling their bluff here.
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From what I have read, a lot of journalists seem to me conflating that with the release of the backroom staff.

They essentially have 2 bargaining chips now that we have agreed to pay the release clause for Amorim and are using them to get some extra money in.

I reckon that we will probably agree to pay a good fee but a bit less than that. I wouldn't be shocked if the entire cost is bang on 10 million pounds. An extra 1.5 million or so for his staff and to waive the notice period.
 
diarm said:
€4m for 30 days would be terrible business. Unless we need to keep them sweet because we plan on negotiating for any of their players over the next couple of windows, I'd be calling their bluff here.
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Depends how desperate we are for him to start straight away. The quicker he comes and implements his style the better. But I think the 4m is really for his coaches to join him as they could potentially be lining up one of his coaches to take over them.
 
P-Nut said:
(...)

The only ones that might not give him time are the players and they are the only ones you didn't mention :lol:
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:lol: I didn't mention because usually Amorim always gets the players on his side. That's one of his strengths. Although that means that he might put aside some players, no matter their status, if he thinks they are not good for the group's harmony. He did it with Slimani, for example, a fan favorite at the time. And he will stubbornly defend the players he believes in, even if fans contest and whine about it (Paulinho and Esgaio, for example).
 
DJ_21 said:
Depends how desperate we are for him to start straight away. The quicker he comes and implements his style the better. But I think the 4m is really for his coaches to join him as they could potentially be lining up one of his coaches to take over them.
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If that's their plan, Sporting can make that offer regardless. He's either going to say yes because he wants to be the head guy there, or no because he wants to be a part of Amorims project here. Us paying £4m or not doesn't really affect that decision.

If he does want to come here along with the other two, then Sporting will need to find another manager who will want to bring along his own guys. Do they want to make the new coach wait a month for his own team, or are they going to pay the new guys and the old guys for another 30 days just to spite them? I can't see it.
 
Captmfla said:
I am not sure if I will classify current squad as strong.

Arsenal had an arguably stronger squad before Arteta bought any player into the club.
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I'm sorry, but this is one of the worst opinions I've read so far this week. You might want to refresh your memory and take a look at that 19/20 Arsenal squad.

Amorim will straight away have these at his disposal after arriving at United:

-A technical goalkeeper who's an elite passer and ball-player. Arteta had Leno who's shit with his feet and probably not even above average as a shot-stopper.

-Elite level CBs in various CB roles in De Ligt, Maguire, Yoro, and Martínez. Arteta only had Saliba who hadn't even played a competitive match for Arsenal at that point I think, so he had to phase him in much like Amorim will have to with Yoro. His other CBs were an old Luiz, Sokratis, Mavropanos, Holding, Chambers, and Mustafi.

-30 goal per season striker prospect with a great mental profile in Hojlund. Arteta was given two disruptive, past-it players in Aubameyang and Lacazette.

-One of the best #10s in the world who's the 2nd best chance creating machine on the planet after KDB in Bruno. You can argue Arteta had Özil, but that never worked out between the two, and Amorim will almost certainly get along with Bruno very well, so I will most certainly list Bruno as well.

-Already established youth players in Mainoo and Garnacho. Arteta had to integrate the likes of Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah, Nelson and Smith Rowe by himself.

-30 G/A inside forward in Rashford. Decent wingers in Garnacho and Amad. Arteta had Pepe and Mkhitaryan.

-Solid full-backs in Dalot and Mazraoui (Shaw and Malacia too if they ever return at this point). Arteta had Tierney, Kolasinac, Bellerín, Monreal, Cedric...

-Mainoo and Ugarte as defensive/central midfielders. Granted we need to, and will add quality here, but Arteta had to give a lot of minutes Guendouzi, Ceballos, and Torreira, before being able to add add real quality to his midfield.

The only player who was already an established first teamer, was at a good age, and had both good ability and most importantly a good mentality, was Xhaka, when Arteta took over at Arsenal. So arguably one player from the whole squad.

The current United squad is objectively light years ahead of the mess Arteta had when he took charge of Arsenal.
 
To be honest, I know we want him to start work as quickly as possible, but he might be best being in the stands for the Chelsea game anyway.

It's a difficult first game and he won't have any proper time with the players the way things are looking.
 
crossy1686 said:
So this only applies to Amorim? No other Portuguese player or manager has had to do this but our new manager is going to stay in his role for another 30 days?

You guys are on one today.
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No. In other cases it will have been waived for free, or some sort of negottiation to pay some extra compensation would have gone on behind the scenes that we wouldn't have heard about.

When it comes to players, why are you going to want to keep him for 30 days anyway? Especially when most transfers are over the summer when there are no matches.

This is a somewhat unsual case because it's happening at an inconvenient time for them being not long into the season, it's harder for them to find a replacement, plus from their point of view might as well milk it if they can.

When it comes to emoplyment law in general, whenever I've started a new role I've been given a employees handbook before signing a contract that I've been asked to read. In that there's specific company t&cs plus manadatory ones as set out by UK law. Don't see why it wouldn't be the same in every country. To be fair, the specific company ones tend to only benefit me, stating if they're going above and beyond minimum holiday days, extra sick pay, additional pension contribution etc. If they're not then they'll still list what I get as a minimum in law. Whether it's me benefiting or the company I would still have to abide by what's in that contract as long as it's legal, and the contract says I've agreed to what's in the handbook.

When he signed his contract with them he'd have been agreeing to whatever's in Portuguese employment law in the same sort of way. Now he might not have a handbook as it's a different world, could have everything in a bespoke contract but it will all be in there. His rights, their rights etc. and some of them will be the minimum as dictated by law. If he wasn't up for any of them he shouldn't have signed and/ or sought work in a country without that particular employment law.
 
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diarm said:
€4m for 30 days would be terrible business. Unless we need to keep them sweet because we plan on negotiating for any of their players over the next couple of windows, I'd be calling their bluff here.
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Hmmm ... Dunno. For me it depends on how many games we play in that timeframe.

Depending on how much the board rate him vs how much they rate Ruud, could be the difference between top four or going further in the Europa league and failing with both targets. That could be worth a lot more than 4M
 
So if they are willing to waive the 30 day waiting period then it isn’t law as some have said. You can’t just waive the law aside for money.
 
Rojofiam said:
Maybe we are not a "nailed on" top 4 squad, but I think the deluded ones are who think we shouldn't be making it or coming very close to top 4 under a good manager and no injury crisis. Why did so many people want ETH out so vehemently if they, at the same time, believe that this squad isn't even as good as the Chelsea, Spurs and Villa squads? It's just totally contradicting yourselves.

Regarding your last two paragraphs, the only part I agree with is that we will get a young CM for the new manager, in one of the next transfer windows.

You don't know what Amorim will "demand" and whether he will have the right to demand anything or not. I really doubt we'll be signing several Sporting players for him, in fact, I'd be surprised if we signed anyone from there, as looking at their squad, we don't really need any of their players.

He won't demand Gyökeres, because we have Hojlund who can be turned into a scoring machine, much like the Swede. For free. He won't demand Diomande, because we've just signed Leny Yoro, who was the much more coveted CB prospect of the two, and Diomande wouldn't be the only option if we wanted to add another wide defender to the squad (which will happen IMO). He also won't demand Inácio when he will already have Martínez for the same role within his system.
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I agree with this. People wanted ETH out(he deserves the sacking, no question about that) but then also claim that squad is piss poor and nowhere near top 4 quality.

I believe we have a squad capable of competing for top 4. Yes, Liverpool, Arsenal, and City stand out as stronger teams, but there isn’t a significant gap between us and clubs like Chelsea, Aston Villa, Tottenham, and Newcastle. I've seen enough of their games this season and they're not that much better than us. If Amorim has anything about him he should be getting us to compete among those teams easily. Newcastle, in particular, has recently begun to earn results that reflect their actual performances, especially considering how lucky they've been earlier in the season to get their wins. Similarly, Tottenham has been just as inconsistent as we have.

There seems to be a contradiction where people criticize Erik ten Hag for signing his former players while simultaneously expecting Ruben Amorim to do the same. It’s amusing to see the constant fawning for Gyokeres. Amorim is being brought in with the hope of maximizing our current squad's potential too. Like you said, if Amorim has the qualities we hope for, he should be able to extract the best from players like Hojlund, who shares a similar profile to Gyokeres.
 
Glorio said:
Hmmm ... Dunno. For me it depends on how many games we play in that timeframe.

Depending on how much the board rate him vs how much they rate Ruud, could be the difference between top four or going further in the Europa league and failing with both targets. That could be worth a lot more than 4M
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I think we'd end up getting them much earlier than 30 days regardless. I just don't see a reality where the 3 boys resign and state their intention to leave, Sporting hire a new manager and coaching team, and then in addition to paying the new ticket, they keep 3 coaches on GL and the payroll for an extra month just to spite us for not paying £4m.

What would happen is that Amorim would move now, Sporting would hire a new manager between now and next Monday and then some time next week they would release the 3 lads.
 
RDCR07 said:
So if they are willing to waive the 30 day waiting period then it isn’t law as some have said. You can’t just waive the law aside for money.
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Any employer can waive notice periods if they choose but why would they would they without appropriate incentive
 
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RDCR07 said:
So if they are willing to waive the 30 day waiting period then it isn’t law as some have said. You can’t just waive the law aside for money.
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You seem to be impressively unaware of how contracts work.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
If what you're saying is true and honouring the rules of his contract doesn't matter as we are in the UK and they are in Portugal why pay the 10 million euros?
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I’m still stuck on why we are paying a ‘release clause’ if it doesn’t actually release him to start work on our terms. Very confusing
 
Plant0x84 said:
I’m still stuck on why we are paying a ‘release clause’ if it doesn’t actually release him to start work on our terms. Very confusing
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Because otherwise he would have to work for Sporting until the end of his contract or until they fire him
 
Anyone else feel a bit old following this (presumable) appointment?

Amorim will be the first Manchester United manager of my lifetime to be younger than me...

Although Michael Carrick is only two months older than me if we're including caretakers!

Was bound to happen one day I guess!
 
Can someone explain why United changed their manager priority?

From The Athletic...
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5883160/2024/10/30/ten-hag-amorim-welbeck-berrada/

It seemed like the number 1 chose in the summer was Tuchel and Amorim was not considered as "after conversations both parties decided the time wasn’t right then".

Yet fast forward to October and Tuchel was not considered and Amorim became the priority?

What changed? Was this just down to Amorims hot start for Sporting?
 
gaffs said:
Can someone explain why United changed their manager priority?

From The Athletic...
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5883160/2024/10/30/ten-hag-amorim-welbeck-berrada/

It seemed like the number 1 chose in the summer was Tuchel and Amorim was not considered as "after conversations both parties decided the time wasn’t right then".

Yet fast forward to October and Tuchel was not considered and Amorim became the priority?

What changed? Was this just down to Amorims hot start for Sporting?
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Tuchel went elsewhere for starters
 
gaffs said:
Can someone explain why United changed their manager priority?

From The Athletic...
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5883160/2024/10/30/ten-hag-amorim-welbeck-berrada/

It seemed like the number 1 chose in the summer was Tuchel and Amorim was not considered as "after conversations both parties decided the time wasn’t right then".

Yet fast forward to October and Tuchel was not considered and Amorim became the priority?

What changed? Was this just down to Amorims hot start for Sporting?
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Too late? Tuchel signed for England
 
BuzzKillington said:
I was being straight up about it from my original post, in that the point I was making is that city are not a historically big pull. While over the last few years we’ve started to view them, it’s due to pep and money. When pep goes it’s just money, and it’s questionable how much they’re going to be able to use that.

I suppose the truth will out in the next few years, but i reckon there’s a pretty good chance they’re going to fall off a cliff. The assumption that oppo fans, and seemingly some cucked United fans, are making is that this won’t be the case and they’re here to stay. And that Amorim is somehow fecking himself by choosing us over the City job in the summer.

But I’ll put my crystal ball away and stop insulting your beloved City.
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You're making zero sense seeing as they won two leagues in 5 years with money and no Pep.

As for 'beloved City' and 'cucked United fans' , you're embarrassing yourself.
 
RDCR07 said:
So if they are willing to waive the 30 day waiting period then it isn’t law as some have said. You can’t just waive the law aside for money.
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I suppose both clubs can make a deal and we offer them a bit more to let him start straight away. Money always talks.
 
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