He doesn't have a veto.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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Whoever is in charge needs better players
So they are the buffoons? Why did they sack Ashworth and what decision could he have made that was worse than the ones they have made.
They also need to do the bare minimum of getting decent performances from who they already have. If Ruud could do it, how come ETH and Amorim can't?
So we are back at the usual excuses that he needs his own players and has injuries.
The injuries are recent and the players he has removed are his own choice.
I'm very much of the idea that managers need time, but they generally have to earn that time by showing something. Like I said noone expected miracles. But you should be able to see something to work with by now even if you can see the lack of quality. But it's not there there is a lack of a quality and a system/philosophy that is also failing the players look lost in the system and realistically the only reason we have got any results is because of our limited individual quality, it's not because of the system or his coaching.
It's fair to say his system/philosophy is actually currently holding the players back, his system/philosophy/coaching/ is currently making all our players look worse than what they actually are. What evidence is there that signing him his own players will actually have any impact whatsoever.
Good managers generally don't need there exact own players to achieve more than relegation form.
Danny was injured a lot but also looked as people said Bambi on ice, but that also shows we needed to show patience with him. He would do a great job for us or Arsenal now.
To be fair over the last 3 years, the period in which the majority of our current squad came to the club. We've had Woodward, Arnold, Murtagh, Berrada, Wilcox and even Ashworth for 6 months.
He was in charge for two games against Leicester. As someone famous once said, you cannot polish a turd.
I don't doubt he has less power than previous managers who seemed to basically run things themselves, but it's clear he has the ability to say yes/no.
That quote isn't saying this is how we do things, it's all should be and ought to be. Not what is. He's head coach for a reason.
I completely disagree, people acting like Amorim has made us worse, I look at ETHs last 18 months and irrespective of results, where we finished or won silverware, across the majority of matches we were easily the worst team, we were atrocious, we should have been fighting relegation, that is how bad were truly were, for my money we are just seeing a continuation of the issues caused by ETHs incompetence,
Out of this current squad, how many players are worthy of playing for Utd, most are either lacking technically, physically or mentally, and many it is a combination of 2 or all 3, ETH with Woodward and Murtough managed to significantly downgrade the squad whilst lumbering us with huge debts and players who just are not fit for purpose, thing that most people ignore is that during this period, well from Mourinho onwards, there has been a shift in the premier league with so called lesser clubs becoming a lot more savvy in their transfer dealings, the quality of a lot of so called lesser teams has significantly increased in this period and we have been left behind.
I see more good things from the team under Amorim than I did in the last 18 months of ETH, it is still massively far off where we should be though.
Am I convinced that Amorim will make it? right now about 75% confident, I think if we had a decent striker or better 2 this season would look a lot different, the transformative effect of scoring goals would be significant, and this is a squad issue we have not scored anywhere we need to in terms of goals for 3 seasons, eventually these things bite, 3-5 great acquisitions and we are pushing top 4, it all comes down to who and the problem is right now there are not so many obvious choices in terms of striker, I am not convinced that Oshimen or Gykores are the answer I do not know who is
He isn't a manager is he. He is head coach.
You can only beat what is in front of you, and you conveniently ignore that he drew with Chelsea in the league. Meanwhile, Amorim cant even get results against teams like those mentioned.
They made a mistake but I wouldn't call them buffoons, mistakes happens in Football the important part is to recognize it and try fix to them. Issues only start when you try to justify a mistake by giving it time that's when you are a buffoon. Otherwise everyone in Football would be a buffoon because no one has a record exempt of pretty big and expensive mistakes.
He’s obviously a ‘good’ manager given his accomplishments in Portugal.
People don’t understand what a clusterfeck of a situation we are in. Until that is acknowledged we can’t progress.
Btw I’m not saying Amorim hasn’t been disappointing. Our football and results have been crap. I just don’t think this is him being a proper chance to build anything.
Cult of the manager
Don’t make me laugh!
Clearly the pair of you misunderstood my post & read things as black/white and don’t look deeper and understand that their is nuance.
Couldn’t care less about Amorim, I’d have said the same if it was someone else. Reason I would be done with the club is I’m sick to the back teeth of the constant changing of managers, the players have thrown manager after manager after manager under the bus, & it doesn’t matter which set of players it is either, it always seems to happen. The club is toxic. No other club seems to have this issue. Even if we are turning into Tottenham, they don’t have this issue & can always see a change of style whenever the manager changes.
Sick of people wanting to change managers, the same happened under Ten Hag and we slated him for NOT sticking to his principles and now we’re slating Ten Hag FOR sticking to his.
If that were true then it would be pointless for the club to even sign new players then as by that logic all new players who enter the club immediately make it their life's goal to get the current manager sacked for some inexplicable reason.
We might as well just keep Amorim and the current squad and not bother even trying to improve the clubs position. Just accept what we currently have yes?
Thought yesterday was an improvement to what we usually see tactically, could see that things are being worked on but again the lack of quality and physicality let's it down. For instance we saw de Ligt switch play excellently four or five times out to Dalot and Garnacho to create one v ones but Dalot doesn't have the attacking mindset to go at his man consistently however he goal came from his side so something is clicking.
de Ligt and Yoro were more aggressive too in stepping on to Fulham which is another slight improvement to how Amorim wants to play.
de Ligt and Yoro were more aggressive too in stepping on to Fulham which is another slight improvement to how Amorim wants to play.
First of all, there are players who have been here through multiple managerial sackings, and pretending that isn't the case is equally clueless. One of those players missed a penalty yesterday. Another is the best paid player at the club, currently playing for Aston Villa. Another is mocking mums on benefits after not playing football for his club for a year and counting. Diego Dalot is another exquisitely frustrating footballer who has seen Mourinho, Ole and ETH all get sacked. Hence there's a common thread of annoying/incompetent footballers running through all our recent manager failures, so fans will obviously feel pissed off if they think the same players have a role to play in our current woes.
But that's separate to my main point about how we accumulate so many players who just aren't up to the task. So when we see our latest managerial hire floundering it's natural to assume that the main factor her is him having to work with a squad full of shite players, seeing as we've become probably the PL's number one specialist when it comes to accumulating a squad full of shite players.
Its the opposite. Amorim has the easiest job in the world. In years gone by managers would be sacked straight off for this kind of dogshit. No questions asked. It doesnt matter what excuses there are. 14th in the Prem! Jesus wept. Literally no club would accept that. Doesn't matter which club. If you are 10 plus places below in the league where you are supposed to be no matter if you are Ipswich or Scunthorpe or Man City, there would be a fkn riot. Yet he fans are still with him. All anyone is asking for is a bit of hope. A bit of improvement. Anything to show we are going in the right direction. Thats the rock bottom of any pressure or expectations. Sht its even below rock bottom. Play some decent football? Thats it. If thats too much for him and too big a job even with the excuses of I dont have my team etc then he should go do something else.
Yeah old habits, you get the point. I haven't seen any credible source that says he has no veto, in fact a quick google tells me it came from a tier 5 journo Ben Jacobs who is hated by basically all fan bases for being an awful journo but has a couple of Chelsea contacts.
If they're going to go for another mid season sacking, I hope they're smarter with the transfers.
Really don't see how anyone can justify backing a coach that has failed from the get go.
Who kept ETH on, that was buffoonery that had impacted on the new manager and our season?
It's a direct quote from him in a club presser - if you have info that says otherwise would like to see it? But my understanding is he has a veto.
Wait, who's knocking mums on benefits?
And I'll judge all of them on what they produce. It's possible that our recent signings are a step in the right direction but when we're absolutely fecking desperate for goals it's impossible not to think about the 200 million plus we spent to sign Zirkzee, Hojlund and Antony and assume anyone involved in signing off on that spending hasn't a fecking clue what they're doing.
And did the players get LVG sacked? No, only posters who revise history claim that. LVG got himself fired by playing bad football and not getting results. Mourinho was toxic and lost the dressing room with his antics. Ole failed to initiate a change in play style and a had a bad summer window. ETH got himself sacked with his terrible second and third season tactics. Correlation does not equal causation.
Players may or may not be up to the task, but then whose fault was it bringing them in? The managers that had too much power at this club, and now the new "structure".
It probably is, but he walked in to a well oiled machine and didn't have to do much. Much easier to do when a club is doing well and has a good team already in place. We'll see how he does when he has to find replacements for a few players.
When a team is struggling and playing shit, the idea behind a change of coach and direction is to try a different approach with the idea that it will be an improvement. Maybe not straight away, but over time.
What do Man Utd fans actually want or expect given the situation the club is currently in?
A short term approach that see the club lurch up and down season to season. With different managers and players hanging on every year and performing when it suits them.
Or a long term approach, that might come with some short term pain, but in the long run will lead to more consistency and stability in terms of performance levels and sqaud building.
We can all accept that Amorim might not be the right guy. Utd have only had 2 managers in the history of the club who have really been capable of making the team into consistent winners.
So the chances are that maybe he's not, but after only a few months, it's impossible for fans to make that judgement call. I've generally stayed out of this thread, because it's become the same circular discussions, with the same arguments being made over and over.
If the club decide to sack him, then so be it, if they decide to back him, then we just have to wait it out and see where it goes.
First of all, i'm not an "Amorim out" guy. But i don't get those fans who say we should buy players who actually fit in Amorim's system and then judge him. This would be the biggest mistake ever. We shouldn't buy players to fit in any manager's system. Because if we do, and it won't work out with Amorim, the next manager will be in serious trouble if he wants to use other formation, and this would be an endless cycle. We should buy quality players and a manager who's flexible enough to make a team out of them using the best possible formation, tactics. An example. Florentino Perez signed Kylian Mbappé who is essentially a left winger knowing that Real Madrid have possibly the best left wing, Vinicius Jr. Then Perez gave the task to Ancelotti to integrate him into the team. It did not work immediately, Mbappé as a striker had a rough start in Madrid but after 7-8 rounds he found his form (and Ancelotti tweaked the system nicely) and now the frenchman has 27 goals already this season including two hat-tricks. Even Bellingham, he bought him because of his huge talent, Ancelotti changed the formation to play him in the position where he can do his best and the rest is history. This is what we should do. Buy talented, quality players and then figure out the best possible formation. But with Amorim, who seems really stubborn, i don't think it would work out. Not to mention that we don't even have money to buy the suitable players...
Look I was against it and made that point ad nauseum but a very large amount of people had a rational behind supporting that view and it wasn't buffooney. I totally disagreed with it and pretty much predicted what happened since but it's not buffoonery to (wrongly) believe that the issues could be fixed with new players. Hell, you have been sharing that same idea in favor of Amorim.
I would say it was buffonery because the people making decisions got swept up by the emotions of the fans. If they had been more like Woodward with LVG we would not be in this mess.
He’s made it extremely difficult for himself and the team to get much out of many games by his direct choices. Even when we do put good pieces of play together, the player we manage to work into positions of promise just don’t have the qualities. We do the work to free Dalot, down the left. Even when teams play with a false 9, we still have 3 fecking centre halves loafing around passing it from side to side, and occasionally switching it to Dalot in attack, of course.
From my observation, his tactics are extremely negative and cautious. We barely have a front 3 at all. We have defenders out wide, and then the inside front 3 usually has at least one midfielder in it. We simply do not have enough players offensive minded players on the football pitch.
Think most were expecting better than this, not title challenging but not on edge of the relegation zone. Timing of the appointment was the big issue, you cannot go for a system manager who is fixated on his system mid season. Either last summer or this summer.
The worry is if they do not back him with the right quality players in the summer, if they don't get trigger happy that is. It is knowing the market and who you can get for cheap but will become a world beater in the future, but also knowing which position you need to go the a more expensive player.
Semantics. It’s the same thing.
??? explain
Amorim says this more or less after every game.The system is his obviously but we're not playing like he wants,no high line,10's constantly drifting out wide,wing backs not playing high and wide(apart from Dorgu,who has been bought in to fit the system).
Results are shocking as is the state of the club but he needs the time to build.
Absolutely, we need better profiles, but I am disappointed with the choices he has made thus far in those areas. If nobody in the current squad is suited, he still showed his priority by picking those who had better defensive skills over those with better offensive ones. At the very least, he should have at least been starting ONE winger in the WB position. But he favoured Mazraoui and Dalot and even Malacia at times over and over.
Dorgu has looked good though, to his credit, but the question will soon need to be answered whether he has the quality to be the player we as a team are trying to work into our most promising situations. I voiced my concerns about Amorim when he was linked and it was solely down to this formation that he insists upon, which is extremely difficult to find the right profiles for of the standard to impact games at the highest level.
I’m sure there is a press conference quote from Amorim himself saying he is actively involved with recruitment and as the guy who is ultimately responsible for the results has a strong say over who we do and don’t sign. To think he wouldn’t is short sighted.
Edit - found it!
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beat city, beat arsenal, drew with scousers. We can both play this game. At the end of the day it’s stupid to compare apples and oranges, the one constant is the playing squad and whichever way you line them up they just aren’t good enough.
I’m not saying Amorim is “the one” but it’s silly to think another coach would transform this team. You might pick up a few extra results but fundamentally the team lacks goals and I’ve never heard of a 30 goal a season coach, have you?