Yeah I quoted that but have received no reply from either poster claiming otherwise.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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He who can grant an exception is sovereign.
He will broadly agree on all signings. The veto will be exercised if not.
Mazraoui is only a better fit to someone who values what Mazraoui contributes over what Garnacho does. If you play a back 5, then definitely Mazraoui works better, as he’s a defender. He’s offered nothing going forward, and that can only be acceptable within a certain type of philosophy.
And people need to stop mentioning Amad, he was quickly replaced as a WB by Mazraoui/Dalot (not Antony), and the any number of attacking options who could possibly have player inside instead of him have been let go. Now we are here playing Erkisen as some sort of inside forward.
I accept that the squad doesn’t have the best quality. But he had the opportunity to still show a template of his vision with the plahers he had. He has opted for 5 defenders more often than not. At times, that 5 defenders has even been supplemented by an additional 4 or 5 midfielders. And our team has looked like that on the pitch.
That was also ETH's number one excuse for why his terrible "system" didn't work. It didn't work for him and it doesn't work with Amorim now.
Might take a while to get to where fans think we should be. Might be building a squad to just challenge for EL, ECL place first, then keep improving the squad up to challenging for Top 4/5 and then improve again to challenging for the title. Too many want us to just spend loads and get a title winning side straight away. We have spent loads and gone backwards. We need to make sure the money is spent wisely. Our biggest issue is that spending and the obvious issues with the debt are going to make it a slow process. If we can improve to European football regularly it will at least improve our spending chances. It will be the same for whoever the manager is unfortunately. Another manager might improve us, but not to the level some are demanding at this point.
I think most fans are reasonably level headed. I, for one, would accept and tolerate our league standing if I could see clear signs of progress. Some say they can see some signs but we really seem to be clutching at straws. De Ligt plays a few cross field passes and some of us are "aha....see....Amorim's tactics are starting to work". This only goes go show how desperate we are to find something positive from our performances.
The only player who has shone this season is Amad and it's difficult to say he has genuinely improved because we didn't see enough of him under ETH.
I don't agree with Amorim hiding behind the "no pre-season behind" him. He's had plenty of time to train the players now. He doesn't have to win every game. Hell, I can even handle him losing every game if I can see progress in adapting to the new tactics. It looks like the players we have now will never adapt to Amorim's tactics so where does that leave us? A complete rebuild of our first team squad? And even that is dependant on us purchasing the right players and there is still no guarantee that that will work either.
Ah so you did - should have scrolled up a bit! Sorry.
That said you are correct in your assertion that Amorim does indeed have a big say of transfers regardless of his job title. It’s a weird nuance that some have got blinded by/hung up on.
Which is understandable with a new completely system. All the previous managers used similar systems so could carry on from each other
This job is massive. It's broken experienced people like Van Gaal and Mourinho. It took Moyes a few years to recover.
Amorim is a young manager that's still learning his craft. He needs help from above but he's never going to get that.
As I keep saying, what we needed in October/November was a short term fix to steady the ship and get us to the heights of maybe 8th and at least replicate what happened last season. Then explore medium term appointments.
Amorim might have been a man for the future. He isn't the man for now. He'll be gone in 6 months and we'll be back to square one again. Amorim will take a couple of years recovering in a "lesser league" and then take on a bigger job eventually where we'll inevitably see loads of "this is what United are missing".
Everything off the pitch is now on Ratcliffe to try and sort out.
Amorim is a young manager that's still learning his craft. He needs help from above but he's never going to get that.
As I keep saying, what we needed in October/November was a short term fix to steady the ship and get us to the heights of maybe 8th and at least replicate what happened last season. Then explore medium term appointments.
Amorim might have been a man for the future. He isn't the man for now. He'll be gone in 6 months and we'll be back to square one again. Amorim will take a couple of years recovering in a "lesser league" and then take on a bigger job eventually where we'll inevitably see loads of "this is what United are missing".
Everything off the pitch is now on Ratcliffe to try and sort out.
I don't think that fans had any play in it. My theory is that they were stuck between two minds but it begins with two observations that we need to accept, this squad is flawed and it was flawed last season, on top of that we had an injury crisis. The second observation was that ETH made things worse whether the squad was at full strength or not but the team was far better when we were at full strength which was a rarity.
When you consider that you find yourself in one of two groups which are both heavily represented in the fan base and will be represented among executive in all Football clubs. Some are willing to give more leeway to managers because the situation isn't ideal and because a small sample size of games have been promising. Then there is an other group who believes that this less than ideal context exposed the head coach weaknesses and that these weaknesses are a dealbreaker. I'm personally on the second group but you are not a buffoon if you are in the first group, you are just wrong.
Now the club executives were on the first group and it makes sense especially when if for some reason you aren't totally sold on the alternatives. Which is something that I said at the time even though I was against the status quo. It's easy to convince yourself that less injuries and new signings will lead to better results, people are doing it right now. The only thing that was really stupid was triggering the additional year in ETH's contract and spend big money in the transfer market.
I've had enough of his pig ignorance to the capabilities of the players. I watched that game yesterday in total shock at the formation and tactics delivered in the first half of that match. Zero width, centre backs totally lost with zero outlet and attackers cluelessly running around offering next to nothing. The only time we did get into the game was when we brought Garnacho on and attacked his full back.
I also think he's stupid, he's too open with the press. They are loving him because they ask the questions and he answers everything thrown at him. The question about redundances last week, just shrug them off and tell them that you are a football coach and that isn't for you to discuss. The Rooney hit back, just ignore it and move and say you are only here to discuss the match.
This guy is doing his reputation no good at all, what club are going to take him on knowing his lack of flexibility with formations. He'd happily take a club down to keep his principles which is utter madness.
I also think he's stupid, he's too open with the press. They are loving him because they ask the questions and he answers everything thrown at him. The question about redundances last week, just shrug them off and tell them that you are a football coach and that isn't for you to discuss. The Rooney hit back, just ignore it and move and say you are only here to discuss the match.
This guy is doing his reputation no good at all, what club are going to take him on knowing his lack of flexibility with formations. He'd happily take a club down to keep his principles which is utter madness.
Not at all, but if they enter a toxic environment then it seeps round and confidence drains and the cycle repeats.
He’s not going anywhere. He’s overseeing the biggest rebuild/reset in the clubs history and it’s bound to be turbulent. The squad has been stripped back to the bones, he’ll be judged next year but for now he’s very much part of the process.
If Sporting were in the premier league and Amorim was manager I think we'd have the same exact same issue with this 3-4-3 and potentially end up relegated.
That is a concern, I agree. I am wondering about specialist players, but Dorgu seems to have been able to play in a number of positions in Série A. It is a concern, but the result could be better, more dynamic footballers, rather than specialists for a particular system.
There could well be a method to his madness with the defensive options chosen thus far. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, because this is definitely not what he wants as it is right now.
His Sporting team were dominating their league and taking games to the big boys in Europe by the end of his tenure. If he thinks this is an essential part of that process here, I am willing to trust him. I want to see what the final version of this is, and if that means bottoming out first, so be it.
It's nowhere near the biggest rebuild/reset in club history but I would like to understand how you even decided to make that suggestion? What kind of special rebuild do you think is happening now?
They spanked City with it.
And should've been down 4-0 by half time
Yeah I'm happy to see otherwise but I can't see a world a head coach/manager/whatever has zero say being what we see here, that seems to be what Chelsea have right now and it is not attractive for any decent coach.
Our issues are well documented re recruitment, this seems to be the first time there's any semblance of a plan so I am happy to see where Ineos go re transfers and I think, so far, it seems more promising. The more pressing issue for them now though is Amorim, I feel for him but has any coach ever recovered from this kind of start?
I personally want him gone immediately! The fact that we aren't 8th instead of 14th because he's playing a system that doesn't fit a bunch of shit players is enough for me to know that he doesn't have what it takes. Just look at the evidence the past 2-3 seasons, we should be challenging for FA Cups and Carling Cups and doing nothing of note in the league, if we only played a system that fits the players.
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Was that the norm or an outlier?
This is a valid point, but also a different point. Several teams with less than us have consistently outperformed us. Several teams who would gladly take most of our players tend to play better every week. If we drew a decent Championship side in the Cup, we would probably win but very unlikely completely outplay them.
Personally, I wasn’t in favour of sacking Ten Hag. The two reasons I was against it at the time was that I couldn’t be bothered with the exhaustion of starting a whole new ‘have to give him time’, ‘once he gets his players in’ , ‘if he makes the CL then he stays’ cycle to begin again - and secondly, I saw no outstanding candidate on the market, and that included Amorim. I always had a lot of respect for Amorim, but was firmly against the system that he insists on playing.
In my view, there was a chance that we were already going through the pain with Ten Hag, and were probably closer to the end of the caterpillar stage before we saw the butterfly (or ladybird or whatever the correct analogy is here). Now, we go back to cocoon. I think we played far better THIS season under Ten Hag, without the results of course, than we ever have under Amorim. There performances against Palace and West Ham away standout most, games where we are registering multiple shots on goal and creating quality chances and should have won by a few. I do not see that happening under Amorim. But most importantly, the group had experienced a lot together already which in theory could benefit them in the future, but we start again, and we start again just for the sake of it, not for an outstanding candidate/fit.
As soon as we went down the road of getting a 343 manager in, it’s of course not impossible we succeed, but we deliberately put ourselves in a position where it is incredibly hard and less likely to do so. The roles require a specific and uncommon profile of player, the best of whom are rarely available. If we got the optimal XI, then great. But we have taken a choice to exclude a large percentage of players on the market simply due to profile.
Feck it, just use the kids at this point.
Completely on his side. The players have failed for years time to run the purge this summer.
But if he keeps playing maguire as a starter he is going to get sacked. The team can’t play the way he wants to with Maguire in middle of 3 at the back, he’s too deep and slow
But if he keeps playing maguire as a starter he is going to get sacked. The team can’t play the way he wants to with Maguire in middle of 3 at the back, he’s too deep and slow
They are like a broken, ignorant record at this point. So many posters totally oblivious to the reality of the situation, constantly thinking this has been the same team for years and they think you can just rip up a squad and spend loads on a totally new 11.
We need someone with actual successful football experience over a sustained period at the top level in the football structure, whether that’s the manager or the people above him. The key players are all relatively inexperienced / unproven at this level or in their current iterations of their roles (Wilcox, Berrada, Amorim, even Vivell). They might figure it out, but there’s not an established body of work there to give you confidence they will.
Also if this United team was in the Portuguese league we would probably be 3rd and with a bit of luck might even win it. To put things into perspective.
Think the choice of manager mid-season was always going to cause issues if he was not adaptable. The fact he really has backed himself into a corner with his stubborness is not helping his reputation or the club.
Maybe he is talking about himself and not the squad.
His comments towards Rooney were really petty. What Wayne said wasn't even that bad and most should agree with his assessment.
Erm… most of the squad have joined in the last 3 years, so I’m not sure how that works.
Lindelof
Casemiro
Eriksen
Dalot
Bruno
Maguire
Onana
All been here for multiple years multiple managers - 4 of them have been regular starters this season and 2 of them regular subs all played yesterday
Not including
Shaw
Anthony
Martinez
Mount
Evans
There is still a massive purge to be done out of all of those players only Bruno is worth keeping, maybe Martinez.
That’s 12 players listed out of squad of about 24 players
Has anybody mentioned that we spent a lot of yesterdays game in different variations of 4atb? Or we still banging on about the system, his stubbornness etc?
These are my thoughts too. Seems like Amorim has a massive ego problem.
Rooney said most top players want Champions League football so would be reluctant to join United. Amorim replies I was a pundit too blah blah
7 of those you list were signed by ten Hag in the last 3 years.
Of course it matters, that is why the words "these" and "those" exist.
Yeah the players are shite, the system is wrong, the manager is stubborn and poorly suited to the league. The usual really.
Hand on heart, have you read what Amorim said or just reacted to the headline? Because it is strange to me you would think someone who said this...
...Has an 'ego problem'.