As I mentioned after the Ipswich game, given the absolute dogshite he is putting us through with his excessive rigidity, my expectations from him are sky high next season. We better be up there amongst the best sides in the country next season. If we start poorly, he should instantly be fired. The only reason he has left to hold on to for us being as bad as this is that he has not had enough time to drill the players and hasn't had a summer window yet. Once he gets both this summer, all bets are off. I want to see a 360 degree turnaround from Matchday 1 next season and my bare minimum expectation from him is top 4 next season. Only then will the crap we're having to endure right now be justifiable.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I would agree but only if he is backed in the summer. If we get him only one or two late summer panic buys I'll have more patience with him. And I fully expect this to happen.
Shite manager. Did no one question his temperament and attitude when he jumped on a plane to talk with West Ham? Complete ideologue who is out of his depth.
Forget the FACup, more pertinent is our downward trajectory in the league since Ole was sacked (bar ETH first season which now seems an anomaly). This is why I argued at the time that ETH had over achieved in his first season, and is a fairer representation of where this team is at. It’s not a pretty picture.
If he's backed that means he REALLY has to hit the ground running.
Sounds great but then it becomes ETH scenario mk2. We knew he wasn’t the man to take us forward and it was a huge mistake. We are going to make the same mistake but this time spending very precious money on players for a system that won’t work long term in the PL, along with selling or loaning players that will work in traditional 4231/433 set ups.
We don’t have the financial flexibility to support Amorim’s system. Especially when he’s not good enough for the PL.
Dalot, Fernandes, Lindelof, Garnacho, Maguire. Our striker and keeper replacements are also clearly shit. That's more than half the team.
You do realise the team was better then than now? We've downgraded from what was already a group of pleyers that weren't good enough.
Spot on.
In cup games especially, he has to do whatever it takes to get us through to the next round.
At this point I don't see how we can back him. By all means, get in quality players that improve us, but they cannot be 3-4-3 only specialists
I don't have a specific name but if I was an executive for United I would have gone for the likes of Jorge Jesus, Mancini, Valverde and the few other equivalents. The rationale behind it is that these are head coaches that are willing to try anything to get repeatable results or at least sort out their squad. And to me it's important when you totally lost any sense of structure or mid to long time planning, you need to clearly understand what you have and how you can improve it while affording yourself flexibility and the ability to exploit transfer market opportunities. It's a big issue that I had with ETH where he had his ideal 4231 in mind and never really wanted to exploit his players or the market in ways that would deviate from it.
I wouldn't go with too dogmatic managers at this point in time, if we all agree that United will need to overhaul its squad then we need to accept several consequences, the first one is that most transfers fail to some degree, that when players are put in a different context you need to adapt to their strength and weaknesses in that particular environment and that there is a learning curve for everyone involved which can anyway result in not enough learning. This reality isn't good for dogmatic managers, it may work if you manage SCP in the portuguese league or Ajax because there is a large gap between yourself and all the teams below you which makes mistakes less impactful and by default gives you more time.
In other word who would be our Heynckes, Zidane or Conte(for Juventus)? Someone that is more focused on stabilizing and sorting things out with any group of players at his disposal.
I do. What has that got to do with this ongoing motion ‘these’ players have got multiple managers sacked?
I don't either, but it raises the stakes for him. I doubt he'll match them.
It's just the fanbase being idiotic and scapegoating. The fact that the average fan on this forum can't even see there's been several rebuilds in 12 years says a lot about the state of it all.
We've been signing shite players for over a decade now. So when "these players" are replaced with more of the same shite then obviously the same problems will persist. Especially when the most recent manager seemed to have a hit rate for signings that might actually be the worst of every manager post SAF.
This is madness. The bloke’s been here three months and you have more loyalty to him than to the club? How has that happened?
If you don't succeed in the short term, he won't be here for the long term.
I'm also not necessarily saying Rashford and Antony should have stayed but not bringing in anyone to replace them was baffling.
Dorgu might prove to be a decent left wing back for us but spending what little we had on a left wing back felt wrong.
The team needed goals before January. We have somehow made a weak attack even weaker.
You're going to have find in my post where I said 'these' players got multiple managers sacked. What I said was they are not good enough and no manager will make them good enough. We have a well regarded young manager , let's at least give him a proper chance.
With the same clueless muppets overseeing these rebuilds. So why should this latest one be any different? When people say "these players" they're referring to a decade long string of bad signings. The exact identity of the players they're talking about doesn't really matter.
Who are these fictional 3-4-3 only specialists? A formation that’s arguably harder to play for individuals
If we were playing 433 we wouldn't make those mistakes apparently and Hojlund would be banging then in.
It's boring reading the same lazy argument from folks, they don't even offer why a change in formation would benefit. It clearly wouldn't as we don't even have the players to play 433.
The reason we're not creating loads is we don't have good attackers to put on the pitch. The core of our attacks hasn't changed we still attack through the same couple of players Bruno and Garnacho. Until players come back from injury or new signings come in then that won't change irrespective of formation.
Honestly, same here. I was questioning sacking ETH halfway through the season. I was questioning going for Amorim given that the challenge was already big enough and a formation would only add to the tasks ahead but we went through with it. I have no clue what kind of course some people want to go, looks like zik-zaking or rolling the dice out of pure hope that we somehow land on a combination of players and managers that will bring the glory back. It is so discouraging. Seeing the issues at hand, most of the things we have to do have absolutely nothing to do with how the manager wants to play.
To make us a functional team, we need 7 players as well. The idea that only Amorim requires better players to succeed is a huge deflector. We aren't failing because we don't manage some exotic 3-4-3 voodoo, we fail because we get outfought, outworked, outsmarted, we concede set pieces.
They failed in other roles as well because their skillsets aren't great to begin with.
Performances and how matches look are trending downwards for a long time. People just skipped over due to luckily getting results here and there but the performances as a whole were going in the wrong direction for a while.The only thing that is new this season, is that results finally reflect how badly we play. Thats on the team AND the manager(s) AND the recruitment.
Liverpool had a completely different starting point ffs...
It's as if they wiped their memories clear how bad we play for 6 or 7 years. As if what we are seeing these days is any worse than before. I wonder, what exactly their plan is? Who is supposed to come in and what is he supposed to do differently? Find a formula that creates a functional team based on shit midfield combinations, an inexperienced strikeforce with no apparent natural knack of scoring, fullbacks that offer nothing in attack. That makes do with subpar workrate and intensity, individual errors and always falling back into hoofing the ball. Wonder what system this is supposed to be.
The cult of the manager. The average United fan is seemingly more obsessed with the man who coaches the team than the club itself. It seems the expectation is that we need to find the next Fergie and Busby who will shepherd the flock for 20-30 years. They refuse to realise that managers like that are the exception, not the rule, and that every club will go through many managers in order to find success.
This is madness. The bloke’s been here three months and you have more loyalty to him than to the club? How has that happened?
Garnacho was a youth player back then, he made a grand total of 2 sub appearances the whole season. It is a bit disingenuous to count him.
Lindelof barely plays under Amorim whilst he was actually a starter under Ralf, so it seems that not all areas of the squad were stronger back then.
Anyway, “the team was better” is a different argument, which was not made in your original post. Your original post was all about “these players”, which is misleading since basically the whole team changed since then. At this rate one can blame Shaw and Rashford for torpedoing LvG reign as teenagers.
It's such a hard situation for fans and for the manager. He has a philosophy and style that he clearly wants to set as the default in the club. This means not just reverting to whatever the players think is better whenever they can't learn or play the system.
At the same time, we're seeing no improvement. If anything, huge regression.
For me, this regression is because our squad is seriously lacking in talent, and we don't have the players to fill the positions required for the formation. This leaves our very ordinary squad looking much worse because some of them have to fill roles they're not used to. Already poor footballers having to fit into a different role seems to have demoralised some of them.
Ideally, Amorim would have come in the summer, we would have not been bankrupted by the owners, and we could get him the players he needs.
Unfortunately, what is much more likely to now happen, is that we can't afford to buy new players without leaving our squad bare bones from selling off others. In the summer, I expect we will sell a handful of players and bring in 3 or so. This won't fix the problems because we have to look for bargains or youngsters.
I then think we will sack Amorim half way through next season and bring in 'generic manager 325' to take over, going back to a standard formation, while Amorim will go elsewhere and (I'm certain about this) be extremely successful.
At the same time, we're seeing no improvement. If anything, huge regression.
For me, this regression is because our squad is seriously lacking in talent, and we don't have the players to fill the positions required for the formation. This leaves our very ordinary squad looking much worse because some of them have to fill roles they're not used to. Already poor footballers having to fit into a different role seems to have demoralised some of them.
Ideally, Amorim would have come in the summer, we would have not been bankrupted by the owners, and we could get him the players he needs.
Unfortunately, what is much more likely to now happen, is that we can't afford to buy new players without leaving our squad bare bones from selling off others. In the summer, I expect we will sell a handful of players and bring in 3 or so. This won't fix the problems because we have to look for bargains or youngsters.
I then think we will sack Amorim half way through next season and bring in 'generic manager 325' to take over, going back to a standard formation, while Amorim will go elsewhere and (I'm certain about this) be extremely successful.
Wing backs, inside forwards and wide CBs. These are the players he will be asking to be signed for sure but its critical that we make sure that those players are good enough to seamlessly play in a back 4 formation too in case he is fired early.
It's not the same clueless muppets either. We have a whole new best in class set of muppets. The fans who refer to "these players" are not referring to a decade long string of bad signings. They literally think:
"These players" got LVG fired, when he got HIMSELF fired for failing to get top 4.
Mournho fired - who again, got himself fired.
Ole - again, got himself fired for failing to take the team past counter attacking football.
ETH - who was sacked because he chose to stubbornly stick to suicidal football in his two last seasons.
It's laziness, rewriting history and it's stupidity.
Yeah, maybe it’s a legacy of having Fergie leading us successfully for so long. Some fans subconsciously think of the manager as synonymous with the club itself.
Look at the post you quoted and what it was responding to. Your comment has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
At some point, him being well regarded needs to be overlooked and we’ll need to focus on what is actually happening. Amorim would not be the first person promoted above his ability and he won’t be the last.
As for the players not being good enough, the least I expect from a manager is to not make them worse. Thats just to qualify as average. A good manager makes more of his squad. Much like Moyes did with a much worse squad. And he’s only a slightly above average manager.
Awww....United are going to miss you and your money.
Some of these players * Everything else in my post stands. We don't have blame Shaw and Rashford for LVG to recognize that both those players not taking the required step up and being players who don't give it all for the team has cost us.
Before he joined there was a lot of tactico talks about how he plays a “back three” and not a “back five” with “actual wingers as wingbacks”. Since then he has pretty much purged the side of as many wingers as he could, routinely plays fullbacks, and the only signing he has made has been a fullback.
Who got LVG fired but himself?
I didn't quote anyone in my original post.
When we say no one is bigger than the club, that included Fergie and Busby. Even they were not bigger, they are not THE club. The club is and always will be Manchester United.
Did I say someone else got him fired?
There’s almost this element of pretentiousness around football about managers who don’t have a dogmatic philosophy. It’s as if the managers who actually manage and make do with what they have without such draconian tactical measures are seen as lesser.
This is madness. The bloke’s been here three months and you have more loyalty to him than to the club? How has that happened?
Cult of the manager
:lolDon’t make me laugh!
Clearly the pair of you misunderstood my post & read things as black/white and don’t look deeper and understand that their is nuance.
Couldn’t care less about Amorim, I’d have said the same if it was someone else. Reason I would be done with the club is I’m sick to the back teeth of the constant changing of managers, the players have thrown manager after manager after manager under the bus, & it doesn’t matter which set of players it is either, it always seems to happen. The club is toxic. No other club seems to have this issue. Even if we are turning into Tottenham, they don’t have this issue & can always see a change of style whenever the manager changes.
Sick of people wanting to change managers, the same happened under Ten Hag and we slated him for NOT sticking to his principles and now we’re slating Ten Hag FOR sticking to his.
The quote I responded to was you literally saying “these players under a manager with high demands”. What has that got to do with the team being better then? You’re literally saying these same players. Why not just admit you got it wildly wrong instead of pretending everybody else is?
Clearly mis-read the post.
That's exactly what it is, you yourself literally said you're done with the club if another manager is sacked. If that's not the sign of someone only being loyal to the head coach, then I don't know what it is.Cult of the manager
Don’t make me laugh!
Clearly the pair of you misunderstood my post & read things as black/white and don’t look deeper and understand that their is nuance.
Couldn’t care less about Amorim, I’d have said the same if it was someone else. Reason I would be done with the club is I’m sick to the back teeth of the constant changing of managers, the players have thrown manager after manager after manager under the bus, & it doesn’t matter which set of players it is either, it always seems to happen. The club is toxic. No other club seems to have this issue. Even if we are turning into Tottenham, they don’t have this issue & can always see a change of style whenever the manager changes.
Sick of people wanting to change managers, the same happened under Ten Hag and we slated him for NOT sticking to his principles and now we’re slating Ten Hag FOR sticking to his.